old birdview

[1beertap]

Hello everyone! I just joined today and have a few questions. I have acquired a c-band birdview dish which doesn't have the typical arm actuator like some dishes, what can I use to be able to move the dish and what kind of receiver could I use? I would like to receive in digital. Here's what I think I could use, an IRD type of receiver (to move the dish) with a BUD Slave and any type of FTA digital receiver. Please, could someone correct me on this? Also, will I need a new LNB feedhorn since the one that is on the dish is original?

 

[greg harris]

Hello and welcome to the forums.

You have many different options with most C band dishes. What size dish do you have? It may help if you post some clear pictures of your dish

 

[Anole]

As someone looking for Birdview info, I found extensive documentation here on the forum.
A number of members have them, have documented all aspects, and posted numerous pictures.
Linuxman was one of the earlier members to rediscover this ancient beast and drag it back into public attention.

While I usually give multiple links for such things, this is one example where the Advanced Search function (threads started by Linuxman, Birdview in the topic) will give you plenty of good reading material! -

What are your needs and intentions with the dish?
Show us some pictures, and we can give you better info.

 

[Cadsulfide]

You have the Cadillac of dishes, well worth restoring.

 

[1beertap]

My dish is 8.5 feet across and is mesh. I know I will need to modify the potentiometer to a reed switch, enlarge the scalar and install a new lnb as I hope to use it with both c and ku bands. I am looking for a dish mover and a hd digital receiver. Any Ideas as to what might work with this system? I have sent a link to a few pictures on my dish find. Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

[Anole]

congratulations and welcome to the club:

Yep, that's a genuine Birdview Perforated dish with horizon-to-horizon mount.
They took the perforated sheet(s) in a big lathe and spun it to a mold, to make it into a dish.
Those seem a little less common than the white solid Birdviews of the same size (in my signature).
But, the mount is the same, the feedhorn mods are the same, the need for a reed switch and magnet wheel is the same, etc.
See threads by Linuxman, Stogie5150, and Phlatwound (and others) for info on restoring the dish 'n mount.

To run the motor, I'd have to recommend the Gbox (again, see my signature).
We should have a review of it by Linuxman, over in our Equipment Review Department.

Aligning a Ck/1 dual band LNBF is pretty tricky, but do-able.
Other sorts of dual band feeds may be easier to get close to target.
(I'm not a proponent of the servo-equipped Chaparrals, so my bias is to everything else) -
If you just want to run C-band, I don't for-see any serious problems.

 

[phlatwound]

Nice find there, 1beertap. As Anole said, there is a LOT of info to be found on this site, and most is specific to what you need to know to get that dish back in action.

I don't know how much of the 6" tubing you salvaged, but if you need to extend it to get additional height I found that standard 6" (Sch 40?) steel pipe is just the right size.

The tubing fits inside the pipe, I had a little bit of play (not a snug or press-fit by any means) but the weld took care of that. Just make sure you have good line-of-sight wherever you plant your pole, and get it perfectly plumb.

Also saw your note about breaking 2 of the dish-to-mount bolts when you removed it, that is not uncommon.

I was able to extract the broken bolts in one of mine with an Ez-out, and replaced the threads with helicoils, there may be other ways to fix that also. I'm going to guess it was 2 of the bottom bolts, I think Stogie and myself had the same 2 that were broken.

Search this site for, and read those Birdview threads, they will give you a lot of ideas and help you to come up with questions, then post your questions here....then repeat as necessary.

 

[1beertap]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the info. I have read some of the older post and I was wondering, if I use a Gbox, how many poles would need to have for the sensor? I see that some people are using 24 magnets and others are using 8 and still others are using different multiples. I don't want the dish to fly off the mount...lol...but I also don't want it take all night to get from point a to point b. Any ideas?

 

[phlatwound]

The amount of magnets does not affect the speed, it affects the resolution, or accuracy of where you will be able to stop your dish at various points on the travel of the arc. There is no magic number, but theoretically the more you have the better the accuracy.

I used 24 in the one I built, as that amount, with 1/4" diameter magnets, fit with a nice spacing, in a wheel diameter that clears the mount base and the cover.

I am still using an 8-magnet wheel in the mount that is carrying my BV spoon and have been pleased with the accuracy it provides in the experimentation I have done so far, but am planning on making another 24-mag wheel when I am able to get back into this project. I have used V-box6 and a G-box on both setups, the G-box doubles the count (and accuracy).

Take a look at the info plate on your motor, the common gear ratios that I have seen are 37:1, 70:1 and 110:1, that will be the thing that determines your speed, not the magnet count.

 

[Lone Cloud]

I lucked onto an 8.5 Birdview solid a few years back. I did the 24 magnet/alternate polarity system and a reed sensor I bought from Radio shack.

I used a black pvc end cap for the wheel, Mine ended up a bit large in diameter and I had to modify the plastic case. I use a Gbox.

Basically hasn't missed a beat since I got it together. You will like yours I am sure

 

[1beertap]

Can I use a DMX741 on my birdview? If so, do I use the scalar that comes with the DMX741? Or do I have to modify the existing scalar plate?

 

[phlatwound]

Can I use a DMX741 on my birdview? If so, do I use the scalar that comes with the DMX741? Or do I have to modify the existing scalar plate?

Yes you can use a DMX741. I suppose it would be possible to adapt the DMX scalar but all the conversions I have seen done here have been accomplished using the BV scalar.

I had to slightly increase the opening size in my BV scalar to make a SatAv C2 LNBF fit, I think the O.D. of the DMX is similar.

This thread shows how I went about that task in my hillbilly machine shop.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/c-band-satellite-discussion/154646-phlats-birdview-install.html

 

[Lone Cloud]

I have to say that I would not take the BV scalar off. I have heard any number of times now how the struts broke.

I didn't want that to happen to me, so I got a good hole saw of the same diameter as the hole you need for the new lnb. Drill a hole with it in like a piece of 1 x 4 C-clamp it on the
bv scalar, dead center. That way the 1 x 4 can act as a guide for the hole saw. use plenty of oil, aim straight, go slow.

I think this is a better method so as to avoid the hassle of broken struts

 

[Anole]

I have to say that I would not take the BV scalar off.
...use plenty of oil, aim straight, go slow.
I think this is a better method so as to avoid the hassle of broken struts

Yes, absolutely! GO SLOW!
The drill-to-surface speed is very high on a large diameter hole saw.
Run the drill as slow as possible, and take your time.

I had a bear of a time making discs with a hole saw, for use as a magnet wheel.
A lathe worked much better. Too bad we can't put the scalar in a lathe.

... and ... nobody wants a broken strut! -

 

[stogie5150]

Yes, absolutely! GO SLOW!
The drill-to-surface speed is very high on a large diameter hole saw.
Run the drill as slow as possible, and take your time.

I had a bear of a time making discs with a hole saw, for use as a magnet wheel.
A lathe worked much better. Too bad we can't put the scalar in a lathe.

... and ... nobody wants a broken strut! -

Hey take it from me, broken struts are character builders! ( I broke 4)

Can I use a DMX741 on my birdview? If so, do I use the scalar that comes with the DMX741? Or do I have to modify the existing scalar plate?

I would measure what I have, and what you want to put in the scalar. I do not know what the DMX741 measures, but measure both, and hog out the hole as necessary. Everyone has a favorite method, I didn't have to do mine as a member here hooked me up with one that was already done. However, if I had to do it, I believe that I would take it off the dish. Broken struts be damned. But from the other threads, It clearly can be done on the dish.

Good luck and let us know how you do. :up

 

[1beertap]

Again, thanks for the information. I'm sure I'll have more questions to come. As of now, I'm waiting for the magnets to be used for the sensor wheel. I've poured concrete and plumbed the pole. The pole is ready for the h2h mount to be installed. I still need to fix a couple of broken threaded inserts in the dish bowl and of course, enlarge hole on the scalar.

 

[stogie5150]

Again, thanks for the information. I'm sure I'll have more questions to come. As of now, I'm waiting for the magnets to be used for the sensor wheel. I've poured concrete and plumbed the pole. The pole is ready for the h2h mount to be installed. I still need to fix a couple of broken threaded inserts in the dish bowl and of course, enlarge hole on the scalar.

How many inserts are bad? If its just a couple just skip them. I have three bad on my Birdview and its fine. And remember, when you mount the dish, don't be a gorilla tightening the bolts. Just snug them up good. The dish isn't doing anywhere, there isn't any pressure on it, very minimal vibration too.

Looking back at my thread...I have TWO that are broken/missing. No big deal. Her eis a link to the series of posts that detail what to do if you break a strut, and if you want to see how I did the declination.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/c-band-satellite-discussion/155628-stogie5150s-birdview-install-13.html

 

[1beertap]

Update

I made a 3" sensor wheel with 24 magnets. First, I took a 3 1/4" hole-saw and made a disk, but the hole-saw didn't make an exact 3 1/4" disk, so I decided to make my own pattern to fit a 3" disk. Now, I used a CAD program to create a template and printed it. Then, I cut the pattern out and glued it to the disk and drilled out all 24 holes slightly smaller than 1/4". When the magnets finally came in the mail, I took them home and pressed them in. Originally, The disk was drilled out to be installed between the motor and transmission with a 1/2" hole, but I decided to install it to the end of the worm gear (just like the original potentiometer). I went to a local hardware store and purchased a 1/2" nylon bushing with an 8/32" center, a box of 8/32" screws and a matching tap. Next, I removed roll pin out of worm gear and drilled out for use of the 8/32" tap. I ran the tap in and made threads needed for screw. My bushing needed to be installed into the center of the disk, so I took J-B Weld and mixed a little batch and attached the nylon bushing and let cure over night. Next, I took the original mounting bracket used for the pot and recycled it for the new sensor. Lastly, I just finished installing sensor wheel and tested with an oscilloscope for function. My digital ohm meter wasn't fast enough to catch the oscillations of the sensor. Hopefully, the Gbox will be fast enough. Yes, the sensor worked on and off. Yeah!!!

 

[Anole]

Yes, the Gbox is very fast.

And do post some pictures of your solution.
We all love 'n learn by the efforts of others. - :up

 

[Lone Cloud]

I made a 3" sensor wheel with 24 magnets. First, I took a 3 1/4" hole-saw and made a disk, but the hole-saw didn't make an exact 3 1/4" disk, so I decided to make my own pattern to fit a 3" disk. Now, I used a CAD program to create a template and printed it. Then, I cut the pattern out and glued it to the disk and drilled out all 24 holes slightly smaller than 1/4". When the magnets finally came in the mail, I took them home and pressed them in. Originally, The disk was drilled out to be installed between the motor and transmission with a 1/2" hole, but I decided to install it to the end of the worm gear (just like the original potentiometer). I went to a local hardware store and purchased a 1/2" nylon bushing with an 8/32" center, a box of 8/32" screws and a matching tap. Next, I removed roll pin out of worm gear and drilled out for use of the 8/32" tap. I ran the tap in and made threads needed for screw. My bushing needed to be installed into the center of the disk, so I took J-B Weld and mixed a little batch and attached the nylon bushing and let cure over night. Next, I took the original mounting bracket used for the pot and recycled it for the new sensor. Lastly, I just finished installing sensor wheel and tested with an oscilloscope for function. My digital ohm meter wasn't fast enough to catch the oscillations of the sensor. Hopefully, the Gbox will be fast enough. Yes, the sensor worked on and off. Yeah!!!

How I wish I'd had that CAD program when I was doing my magnet wheel! I cut my wheel with a hole saw out of a 4" black pvc end cap. Clamped it to the table of my small drill press. drilled it slowly. Came out pretty round. But then it took me an entire weekend to find the 24 positions, using a square and a caliper.

I used the pvc because it is thicker and can take a punch mark for the magnet holes without cracking. I had to get it so the caliper could go all the way around the wheel and hit each punch mark for the magnet holes. Took me a whole weekend to complete the process.

Just a thought on what worked for me in installing the magnets. After the 24 holes were drilled, (good idea to make the holes snug) I got a piece of wax paper and put it on a piece of flat steel. I put the wheel on top of the wax paper. Then it was relatively easy to alternate the magnet polarities and put them in the holes, since the magnets were immediately drawn against the wax paper and steel plate. Once I got all the magnets in, I made sure the pvc wheel was snug against the steel and the magnets flush with the surface. Put a few drops of Krazy glue in each magnet hole and let it dry completely. The wax paper allowed me to get the wheel up when the process was done. It wasn't hard to detach the paper.