Orbitron down. SAMI on the way...

[B.J.]

Well, as mentioned in another thread, I decided to replace my OLD Orbitron with a new SAMI dish, but the exchange is complicated by the fact that we decided to MOVE the new dish to a new location which has a better view of the sats, and isn't located under an 18,000V power line, and right behind the transformer that that line feeds, and under some BIG trees that threaten to bring those power lines down on the dish. I wasn't concerned about this until I saw a branch fall off one of the trees, landing on the power lines, and the 18,000V sizzled the branch, catching it on fire.

Anyway, after watching my favorite NFL team on Sunday , yesterday, I started the process. I've begun a web page with pictures of the process at:

SAMIdish

So far, the page has what I did yesterday, which was to take down the Orbitron dish, dig around the pole, and pull the pole/concrete ball out of the ground. It all went so fast that now I'm nearing the point where I need more concrete, so I may have to make a trip to get concrete today instead of working on it.

But the process went smoothly, despite making one dumb mistake, which almost resulted in the Orbitron dish falling off the mount and rolling into one of my other dishes, but I lucked out, and it didn't fall.

The strangest thing, was once I started digging with a small backhoe around the pole, which involved removing one of two BIG 3' diameter rocks that the pole was planted between, my wife came running out saying that I was making all the lights in the house blink on and off, and causing the telephone to ring and go beserk! She was certain that I had somehow dug into some power line or something. It took me about a half hour to convince her that there was absolutely no possibility that there was ANY power related anything near where I was digging, and that it was almost certainly just a coincidence that we had a short power fluxuation right when I was digging. Was kind of weird though.
Anyway, after convincing her that it was safe, I went back out, and continued. Now the old Orbitron is on a trailer... still available if anyone wants it. If not, I think that I'll save a few of the non-dented mesh panels, as occasionally I see people looking for replacement panels. I'm also going to see if I can figure out what was causing the Ajax mount to stick, and if it is not serious, I may keep that as a spare. But the ribs of the dish are going into the scrap metal pile at the dump.
The old pole is sitting near to where I'm going to dig the new hole, so I have to bring in some new dirt to flatten out the area, dig the new hole, partiall fill it with concrete, then roll the old pole/concrete ball into the hole, and fill around it with concrete. The NEW location doesn't seem to have the big rocks that the old location did, so it's going to require more concrete to stabilize it.
Anyway, the way I got the Orbitron down was kind of interesting. I had been pondering how I was going to do that for a couple weeks, and suddenly the solution came to me, and it WORKED GREAT. Only worked because the dish was a spinclination type though, so although I grew to hate that spinclination, it sure helped with respect to removing the dish. The last dish I removed, I had to fabricate a home-made gyn-pole type of thing that allowed me to lower the dish/mount slowly, but this darn Orbitron was so HEAVY that I'm pretty sure I couldn't have lifted it off the pole like I did that other dish.
Anyway, I'll be adding to the above link as I progress with the new hole, SAMI installation. I have already aligned the SAMI mount for elevation/declination, a process that I've also documented, and that will be added too. I'm just hoping that I have enough spare ribbon cable to reach the new location, so that I can get the SAMI working before next Sunday's NFL games.

But I'm attaching one image of the Orbitron removal for those who don't want to spend the time viewing the above link.


EDIT: BTW, the 2 big rocks that I mentioned were anchoring my original Orbitron were NOT the big rocks piled around the pole. I had just put those there to give me something to stand on so I wouldn't need to take a ladder out to the dish all the time. The big anchoring rocks were underground. When I installed the Orbitron, I started digging, ran into those rocks, and eventually the hole had to go between them. With concrete wedged between those two rocks, that pole wasn't going ANYWHERE. I didn't realize how big they were.

 

[BrettBardi]

You wouldn't happen to know if the intermediate plate holding the ribs is still good do you? I am looking for one and would pay for shipping if yours is still good. The one in my Orbitron SX-10 is completely wasted away from being near the beach here in Calif. I picked it up a couple weeks ago from a guy that wanted one removed due to his wife complaining how unsightly it was. I got the entire system but was going to refinish everything and found the rust was very invasive. So much the intermediate plate was completely disolved. Can't find another one, so either make one or find one from someone like yourself that is removing a dish. Let me know if we can work something out.

 

[B.J.]

You wouldn't happen to know if the intermediate plate holding the ribs is still good do you? I am looking for one and would pay for shipping if yours is still good. The one in my Orbitron SX-10 is completely wasted away from being near the beach here in Calif. I picked it up a couple weeks ago from a guy that wanted one removed due to his wife complaining how unsightly it was. I got the entire system but was going to refinish everything and found the rust was very invasive. So much the intermediate plate was completely disolved. Can't find another one, so either make one or find one from someone like yourself that is removing a dish. Let me know if we can work something out.

Not completely sure which plate you mean. There are 2 plates, approximately 1' diameter, the back one of which has the spinclination pipe welded to it. The ribs go between those 2 plates, but I can see a relatively thin, bare metal plate between the ribs and the back plate. This plate seems to have a gap at each rib. I can't remember it's purpose. Assuming that the thin shiney one is the one you mean, I can only see the outside edge of it until I take off the outside plate, but it looks to be in good shape. I'm going to try to spend most of my time getting the SAMI up now, but as soon as that's done, I'll take the back plate off and look at the other plate.

 

[BrettBardi]

That's the plate I'm looking for, the one the ribs fit in the grooves. Thin shiny one, I think there is possibly another plate under that one. I can't believe all the rust I found was just from that thin plate. There seemed to be a thicker plate that maybe lined up with the ribs under that one, but only the last 1/2" of rib, so it would be well inside, maybe just to have the bolts go though. I'm not too sure because the manual I have doesn't really show it, unless the plate has a thicker middle than the outer edges. Just let me know if and when you open it up. I'm busy etching the rust off the base and will refinish them with zinc chromate then fresh epoxy paint I got out of the expired material at work. It's only expired as far as aircraft parts go and good for a couple of years unopened. Flat black and gloss white are the only colors we use so thats my choices.

 

[pedrogarcia]

BJ, I really enjoyed your link and the pictures and I like your style. A Kubuta and a backhaul, these should be standard equipment for C band. Am I jealous -certainly.
Seriously well done, I think you have highlighted just how difficult it can be to dismantle or move existing large dishes. I moved a 3.8m spun ali dish with only 4 manpower not fun.

 

[Tron]

Now the old Orbitron is on a trailer... still available if anyone wants it. If not, I think that I'll save a few of the non-dented mesh panels, as occasionally I see people looking for replacement panels. I'm also going to see if I can figure out what was causing the Ajax mount to stick, and if it is not serious, I may keep that as a spare. But the ribs of the dish are going into the scrap metal pile at the dump.

I hope someone comes by and claims the Orbitron. If it goes to the dump, a certain green lizard we know might go on the warpath ...

 

[B.J.]

BJ, I really enjoyed your link and the pictures and I like your style. A Kubuta and a backhaul, these should be standard equipment for C band. Am I jealous -certainly.
Seriously well done, I think you have highlighted just how difficult it can be to dismantle or move existing large dishes. I moved a 3.8m spun ali dish with only 4 manpower not fun.

The Kubota/backhoe sure help. When I put the dish in, it was all done by hand digging and lifting. After going through this with the help of the tractor, I can't imagine how I got that darn thing up on the pole by myself. But I guess at 67, I'm not as strong as I used to be.
The backhoe came in handy digging the new hole too. However the resulting hole ended up being bigger than it needed to be. When you dig by hand with a post hole digger, you can keep the hole to the minimum necessary size, but the backhoe dug hole is hard to keep small. I THOUGHT that I had kept it pretty small actually, but yesterday I planted the pole in the new hole. I started by putting 2 80 pound bags of concrete in the bottom of the hole, dropped the pole/concrete ball into the hole, straightened it out tied the pole to some trees and a rock, then started to pour more concrete around the concrete ball. After the 6th bag, I had to go to town and get 4 more bags of concrete. So I've had to add more concrete to this than I needed in the original installation. But this pipe isn't going ANYWHERE. I got about half way up on the original concrete ball with the 10 bags of concrete, so it is much wider at the bottom, which is ideal. Today, I'm going to back fill the hole, and start looking at how to get the new SAMI up on the pole, which will probably involve me up on the front end loader again.

 

[pedrogarcia]

BJ at 64 I know just what you mean, tools for the job just get bigger and have engines. I just got through cutting up a 30' oak tree that fell. A good size chainsaw did the job but the lugging the logs around was hard - I could have used a front loader. That will have to be the next toy.
Regards

 

[sonyajon]

Sir,

One heck of a piece of intelligence and ingenuity.

If you don't mind us asking, what was the size of the Orbitron?
Also, we just purchaed a new 10' SAMI (replacing a cheap Chinese 6 footer) and we will start digging this weekend.
If I am allowed to ask, what Sat are using for the Sunday/Monday games, please PM if it's ok

 

[B.J.]

BJ at 64 I know just what you mean, tools for the job just get bigger and have engines. I just got through cutting up a 30' oak tree that fell. A good size chainsaw did the job but the lugging the logs around was hard - I could have used a front loader. That will have to be the next toy.
Regards

Re chainsaws, I just recovered from what came close to a nasty accident. I have 3 chainsaws, and use them all the time, but about 5 weeks ago, I was out cutting down some small trees, and all of a sudden I realized that I was being stung by hornets (never did see them, so I'm not sure if they were bald face hornets or yellowjackets or what), but as soon as I felt the stings, I started flailing my arms around, let go of the chainsaw trigger, and somehow the thing swung around and caught me on the wrist before the chain stopped. Required a trip to the emergency room and 17 stitches. Was lucky not to hit any arteries, nerves or tendons, but did end up with sort of a "Z" for zorro shaped scar.
The front end loader doesn't hold too many logs. I generally pull a trailer out into the woods to bring logs back. Haven't used it too much yet, but I just got a new toy, which is one of those 4WD utility vehicles that has like a dump truck back. It seems to hold a reasonable amount of wood, but it's too heavy to lift the dump thing when it's full. Perhaps intentional making people get the power lift versions.

If you don't mind us asking, what was the size of the Orbitron?
Also, we just purchaed a new 10' SAMI (replacing a cheap Chinese 6 footer) and we will start digging this weekend.
If I am allowed to ask, what Sat are using for the Sunday/Monday games, please PM if it's ok

Last I heard, the Monday games were scrambled this year. CBS feeds are on G19 and G28, but are S2 and 4.2.2, so you need either an Azbox or a fast computer with an S2 card. NBC Sunday games are on several sats, but I usually watch NBC over the air.
The old Orbitron was a 10' dish with a heavy AJAX H-H/spinclination mount.


Yesterday, I put the SAMI together. My first SAMI that I put up 20 some years ago, I put up section by section, but the instruction sheet for this thing said to put the dish together on a flat surface before putting it up on the mount. It's next to impossible to do what they say, however I'm not sure if my old method would have worked either, because my old SAMI didn't have the same kind of "ring". But when I started putting the thing together on a flat garage floor, it was easy to get the first 3 petals connected, but when you try to do the 4th petal, you need to put a bolt through the circular plates at the center from below, under the dish, plus, you can't reach the center to put the nuts on once the 4th petal is in there. I basically had to lift up the dish vertically to install the bolts/nuts for the last petal. And then I had a dish that I couldn't get out the garage door without the help of my wife to lift it diagonally. But I got it up on the newly planted pole. Last night I got delivery of a new actuator arm to replace my 20 year old one that I had temporarily installed. Haven't installed the feedhorn yet. I have to run one more run of coax today, because I'm going to also move my small 3' dish too, and it's now using the same ribbon cable for coax, but hopefully I can get everything together today, get it aligned tomorrow, and more NFL on Sunday.... hopefully.
I have some more pictures, but haven't processed them yet.

 

[ParaclipseCKu]

BJ,

Just curious if you looked at the ribs closely to see if they are welded on all sides? Mine are but someone I know who put a 10ft up this past spring they didn't weld the ribs completely.

Getting that 4th section bolted is a bit of a chore. It took two of us with one holding the dish vertical while the other put the bolts in!

 

[B.J.]

BJ,

Just curious if you looked at the ribs closely to see if they are welded on all sides? Mine are but someone I know who put a 10ft up this past spring they didn't weld the ribs completely.

Getting that 4th section bolted is a bit of a chore. It took two of us with one holding the dish vertical while the other put the bolts in!

I didn't check the welds, but I didn't notice anything unusual.

Just ran into another issue I didn't expect, and that was getting the highest one of the 4 feedhorn support arms attached. On my OLD SAMI, I seem to remember just releasing the elevation bolt, and I swung the whole dish over on it's back, so that it was closer to the ground and easy to get to, but this dish with the big 36" ring, didn't look like it would swing back enough to help, PLUS it's a LOT heavier and harder to control than my old SAMI. So I got into the bucket of my tractor, and too a long stick to push the hydraulic lever to lift me up to the level where the upper arm attached. Anyway, I was wishing that I had attached those support arms before lifting the dish up onto the mount.

Another thing I found out the hard way, was that with my OLD SAMI, I could connect a chain or rope in place of the actuator, and it would hold the dish in position if you tilted it past the highest point. Just tried that on the NEW SAMI, and apparently the geometry is different with the big ring, and the strap I attached didn't hold the dish, and it went flying around, and I was lucky to catch it. I think I see a better way to connect a strap to hold it in place temporarily, but I haven't tried it yet.

Anyway, have the cables run to the new dish position, and was about to put the feedhorn on, but then I realized that I needed to take off the old cover plate, and put on the new cover plate, and the way I routed the wires, I have to disconnect several wires to do the exchange, so I called it a day. Hopefully I can finish this tomorrow.

 

[BrettBardi]

Sounds like you've had your hands full. I've stopped on my Orbitron rebuild for the time being. Another Honey-do has taken priority, bathroom remodel. But, I should be done with that next week and I have a new Invacom Quad QPH-31 to replace the older linear on my 33" KU setup. Once those things are done then I can start refinishing all the ribs on the big dish and derust sections of the position mount. I'm hoping to start repainting it in a couple of weeks. I think I'll end up painting it the same color as my tile roof so people don't notice it as much when they drive by, especially the city good for nothing inspector.

 

[B.J.]

That's the plate I'm looking for, the one the ribs fit in the grooves. Thin shiny one, I think there is possibly another plate under that one. I can't believe all the rust I found was just from that thin plate. There seemed to be a thicker plate that maybe lined up with the ribs under that one, but only the last 1/2" of rib, so it would be well inside, maybe just to have the bolts go though. I'm not too sure because the manual I have doesn't really show it, unless the plate has a thicker middle than the outer edges. Just let me know if and when you open it up. I'm busy etching the rust off the base and will refinish them with zinc chromate then fresh epoxy paint I got out of the expired material at work. It's only expired as far as aircraft parts go and good for a couple of years unopened. Flat black and gloss white are the only colors we use so thats my choices.

I finally got the SAMI up (haven't finished processing pictures for web page yet), and I'm at a stopping point, so I took the spinclination hub off the back of the Orbitron. There is a bit of rust/corrosion, but that ring seems to be in pretty good shape. It's also interesting that it looks like when I put the dish together, I didn't put the ring in the right place. When I look at the thing now, it seems obvious that it should go into the same slots that the mesh goes into, but I'm not sure what I was thinking at the time, because I just put it up on top of the ribs.

Anyway, unless someone expresses an interest in the whole dish, you can have that ring if it is in good enough shape for you. I think it will clean up pretty good.

I've attached a picture (sorry somewhat out of focus).

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

I can't seem to get your website to fully come to me even though I have a 10 Mb connection.

 

[B.J.]

If it was just one image, then I've fixed that file. But if it's the whole page, it's something else. The website is one of those GoDaddy sites. I couldn't get to it myself for a while using my WildBlue, until I started using a proxy, while my dialup connection worked fine. I think GoDaddy must have a list of IP#s that it won't talk to. It worked with WildBlue at first, but then suddenly refused to talk to WildBlue, so I'm guessing that WildBlue changed my IP#.

 

[brex2001]

new SAMI

So, how's the SAMI dish doing for you now? Have you fine tuned the tracking of the arc yet to your satisfaction?

I'd still appreciate it if you could shoot some close-up pics of the old Orbitron H-H drive, when you get to it of course. It may point out some mechanical problems that I wouldn't want to repeat when building an H-H drive. Don't hurt yourself with that thing!
Thank you!

 

[woodheat/nooil]

from his new picture looks real good.

SAMI Installation

 

[B.J.]

So, how's the SAMI dish doing for you now? Have you fine tuned the tracking of the arc yet to your satisfaction?

I'd still appreciate it if you could shoot some close-up pics of the old Orbitron H-H drive, when you get to it of course. It may point out some mechanical problems that I wouldn't want to repeat when building an H-H drive. Don't hurt yourself with that thing!
Thank you!

I put the SAMI up with an old actuator, that I've been moving manually with a power drill, so I don't have my analog receiver programmed in with the sat locations yet. I was in a hurry so that I could watch an NFL game on Sunday, then we had rain, rain, then I had to get my car inspected, so I'm a bit behind schedule.
But the SAMI is working fairly well. The performance on C-band is about the same on C-band as the old Orbitron, but it seems a lot better than the old Orbitron on Ku, although the improvement isn't quite as significant as I had hoped, but I haven't really fine tuned it yet, since that's easier to do once I get the real actuator on there. Hope to put that on this morning before the rain comes back.
But yes, it seems to be working pretty well. A few S2 transponders that I used to have to fiddle with to get them to lock well just locked in right away without any adjustments. So far, I'm pretty happy with the SAMI. The 36" ring mount is a LOT heavier than the mount on the old SAMI I had 20 years ago, and I was a bit unhappy when it got out of control once, and unfortunately I put 2 small dents/tears in the mesh. Kind of sad when a brand new dish gets damaged, but it's a very small dent, so it won't affect much.

 

[pedrogarcia]

Re chainsaws, I just recovered from what came close to a nasty accident. I have 3 chainsaws, and use them all the time, but about 5 weeks ago, I was out cutting down some small trees, and all of a sudden I realized that I was being stung by hornets (never did see them, so I'm not sure if they were bald face hornets or yellowjackets or what), but as soon as I felt the stings, I started flailing my arms around, let go of the chainsaw trigger, and somehow the thing swung around and caught me on the wrist before the chain stopped. Required a trip to the emergency room and 17 stitches. Was lucky not to hit any arteries, nerves or tendons, but did end up with sort of a "Z" for zorro shaped scar.
The front end loader doesn't hold too many logs. I generally pull a trailer out into the woods to bring logs back. Haven't used it too much yet, but I just got a new toy, which is one of those 4WD utility vehicles that has like a dump truck back. It seems to hold a reasonable amount of wood, but it's too heavy to lift the dump thing when it's full. Perhaps intentional making people get the power lift versions.

Ouch!! that's made me even more nervous of chain saws.
Looked at one of those 4WD utils in Tractor supply but the price seemed to go up and up with the add ons