Panasonic Burn in? (1 Viewer)

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Hemi 6.1

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OK , I had this TV less then 6 months, I have a 42 inch Panasonic Plasma, I've noticed when your in the Input mode and the components are off , I can see fixed Images in the Dark screen. I thought these TVs were just about Burn in proof?

Last Night I can noticed the Menu Bar and the DVD menu bar fixed in the back of the dark screen .
This happend in a short 10 minutes of being on the screen.

My Pixel orbiter is set at 1 and has alwys been and my brightness and contrast are both in the 60's.

I only see the images when the screen is black .
TV on , in every input mode, while the components are off.
 
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mike123abc

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Plasmas still burn in. But, a lot of it is short term and will fade. If it is bad there should be a menu option to "erase" the screen (i.e. it runs bars over the screen to even it back out).
 

msmith198025

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Odd, I may get slight IR from time to time, but it fades after a few minutes and never has been like you describe.
 

Hemi 6.1

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I got the entire Root menu image in my screen from sitting on the screen for 10 minutes while I was in the Bathroom. Nothing cleared it. I went to bed and 6 hours later it was still there, I did the Screen erase feature , and I think that took care of it.

But still , too much BS to go through just for TV watching. I mean com'on the old Tube tv weren't burn in proof either, But I've Never had a Tube tv ever have a fixed image imbedded on the screen longer then 10 minutes after it was shut off.

I'll be buy another LCD tomorrow, the Plasma will go into the rec/bar area along with my Philips LCD.

I like the picture of the Plasmas, But I'm not liking the image retention , or burn in , when no warrenty covers any of that and it seems really easy to have happen .

So Back to looking for LCD tv in the 42-47 Inch range for Less then $1000.

Any info will be welcome.

Thinking Sony right now, but all thoughts are welcome.
 

Hemi 6.1

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Burn in gets less likely the more hours the TV has on it.
Well my TV has at least 800 hours on it, According to the pros 150 is the break in period.
Well past that.

Its obvious Burn in/ image retention with plasmas is still a big issue.

I'm glad some of you don't have any issue with it.

But I can't stand watching tv knowing there are fixed images from the tv menu and the D* channel displays in the deep blacks.
 

msmith198025

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I am just wondering what is causing it on your set. I am on my fourth plasma. I have had a sammy and three panasonics. I have never had a problem with any of them to compare to what you are describing.
 

Hemi 6.1

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I am just wondering what is causing it on your set. .
Well since I see the D* logo with the date and time and channel number, I guess thats causing it. I'll take a screen shot tonight when its dark so you can see what I see.
I paid a guy to come look at it , and he noticed it right away.
He said it wasn't burn in ,But image retention, But still said many people notice this and don't like it. I'm one of those.:)

He did a calibration and later that night you could see Image retention again from the D* Display this time.

If I can't channel surf, Then whats the point?
Sooner or later thats gotta burn in if its there now everyday.

I'm glad I'm friends with a old tv repair man.:)
 

Hemi 6.1

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Panasonic Tech has been here going on an 1 hour now, He's sitting in the Dark with the DVD sitting in root mode.

Its Quite entertaining.

He Read the entire D* Channel heading in the blacks when he first turned the TV on.
And anyone who know D* knows these will not remain on the screen for longer then what 15-20 seconds. And the Tech is well aware of this.

Very nice guy, Knows his stuff.

He said something isn't right with it. Possible bad Unit.
Trying to figure out why.

Keep you updated.
 

Hemi 6.1

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OK its appears the set is working with in Factory Specs.
But Boarderline.

He said the Calibration was good ,so it looks like my buddy knew what he was doing.

He's not liking the temp at which the TV is running, which he's leaning toward why image rention might be at boarder line specs.

He call his boss, and they offered either give my money back or fix the tv , by replacing some of the parts he things might be enhancing the issue.

I told him to Fix it and we'll go from there.

So Right now the TV is Completely apart, Atleast it looks that way .



But Here is an article he gave me to read.
Take a look.
Keep in mind this Tech works for Panasonic.


Plasma or LCD? There are other kinds of TVs out there, of course, from near- deceased CRT to rear projection, and the new OLED format. But if you go to any electronics store today to buy a television, you'll probably end up deciding between these two dominant technologies.
Your salesman will likely mention many things. For example, he may tell you which TVs work better in dark or light rooms, their expected lifespan and warranty. It's possible he'll say, "Burn-in used to be a problem with plasmas, but it doesn't exist in the new models." Burn-in, of course, is what happens when you leave the same image on a plasma or CRT TV for a long time— eventually the phosphors will retain the image permanently, so you always see a ghost of it no matter what's onscreen. The two words he certainly won't mention are "image retention," the temporary ghosting effect that still dogs plasmas.

Define "Temporary"
Image retention is different from burn-in because it is reversible. According to the Plasma display coalition, image retention is caused by accumulated electrical charge within pixel walls, not by phosphor burn-in. It looks just like burn-in, but it's not. Plasmas still have the potential for true burn-in, but you would have to work very hard these days to incur permanent damage to your television.

So forget burn-in. Let's talk about temporary image retention instead. The truth about image retention is that it's not that hard to cause, but that it takes a lot of time and electricity to make it go away. The Image Science Foundation did a Study in 2008, sponsored by Pioneer Electronics, whose results are often quoted to show that burn-in is a myth or close to it.

Yet when you read the actual wording of the study, you can see that although image retention isn't permanent, it can take a long time to go away. Here's a direct quote from the study:
"After the 48-hour torture test, all three of the plasma TVs that were tested showed clearly visible images from the game menu, whereas none of the LCD or MD [micro-display] rear projection-based sets showed any image retention. However, after regular video material (a DVD movie set to continuously loop) was played through the sets for 24 hours, the image completely disappeared from all three plasmas, leaving no trace. Unlike early generation plasmas, where those type of images would not go away and could actually "burn" onto the screen, modern plasma TVs enjoy a combination of more robust screen materials and subtle image-shifting technologies that have rendered this former issue moot."
A couple of things to note here. First, LCDs were not affected at all by the "torture test." Next, to get rid of the image retention, researchers had to run the TV for 24 hours. It takes me a month to watch that much TV, and unlike LCDs, plasma screens don't "heal" these images when they're off. Houston, we've still got a problem.
Let's say you’re a gamer. At the end of a couple of intense weeks of Halo, you invite friends over for a movie. How embarrassing — your super-expensive TV has unsightly image retention. You played a movie beforehand to try to get rid of it, not realizing that you'll have to play 11 more before the ghosting disappears. That's more than a minor inconvenience.
You don't have to do a "torture test" on your plasma to see ghosting — just try using it to display your computer desktop for a few hours. Yes, the hard-drive icon will eventually disappear, but even minor image retention could take several hours to eliminate using your plasma set's "white wash" (almost all current plasma sets have one — an image retention-reducing screensaver). Plasma spokesmen (and fanboys) will tell you that image retention is uncommon, and will occur if you use your TV in an atypical manner. Their definition of atypical must be very broad: I see image retention at friends' houses and on commercial TVs all the time.
The Missing Variable
Why is image retention so important? Beyond just the obvious — it creates distracting ghost images — it's important because it's something the press almost completely ignores but should be a key ingredient in your decision-making process when you're standing in Best Buy choosing between a plasma or LCD TV. Yet if you go online to research the formats, all you'll read are articles that mention in passing that burn-in isn't a problem anymore.
For example, in a recent post called “Plasma TV Basics,” Gizmodo explained, “[burn-in is] now a nonissue when debating LCD vs. plasma.” When our colleague Charlie White tackled the plasma/LCD debate before the Superbowl He said, "Gone are the old problems with images burning into the screen." And when David Pogue had a conversation with a Best Buy salesman and annotated it with clarifications and corrections, he let this statement stand: “the traditional flaws of plasma (like burn-in)… have been largely eliminated.”
A trip to an online plasma-user forum like AVS or High Def forum shows that consumers are still talking about image retention. Why isn't anyone else?
From "Burn-In" to "Break In"
Did you know that if you buy a plasma TV, you're supposed to spend the First 100 to 200 hours "Breaking it in" like an uncomfortable pair of shoes? During this period, (around two months if you watch three hours every day), experts advise you to turn down the contrast ratio to less than 50%, turn the sidebars to gray if you're watching material with a 4:3 ratio, watch movies on zoom, and limit your gaming.
If you own a plasma, you've probably read this online or in an instruction manual. If you're a consumer trying to make the decision for the first time, chances are you won't know about it until after you purchase your plasma TV. And that could be disappointing — here's a brand new toy, and you have to gimp it just when you want to show it off.
Tradeoffs
Plasma TVs provide a great Image. Many consumers will continue to buy plasmas for that reason, even if they know about the break-in period and the length of time it takes to get rid of image retention. But others, if they knew how high-maintenance plasmas can be, might decide to sacrifice a little image quality so they never have to worry about how long they display news scrolls and channel icons.
I'm not calling for a boycott, and I'm not an anti-plasma zealot, but I would like a more honest conversation about this phenomenon. Instead of, "Burn-in is a myth" or "Burn-in doesn't happen anymore," the discussion should shift to, "While burn in isn't a problem anymore, your plasma TV will be prone to image retention. You'll have to be careful about gaming, aspect ratios that don't match your TV, scrolling news bars, and using your TV as a computer monitor. If you do encounter ghosting, it could take a while to disappear. If you think you might lose sleep over this, you'll be better off with an LCD." It's a mouthful, but it's the truth.
 
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navychop

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Nice post. Thank you for taking the time to prepare it.

Five or so years ago, plasmas looked like a bunch of dots to me. That is not so much the case anymore. But due to my main TV location being in a brightly lit room, even with the shutters closed, I could not give much consideration to plasma.

It really does appear that plasmas are the next to fade to obscurity, preceded by DLP RPTVs, preceded by LCoS RPTVs, preceded by CRTs. The trail of discarded technologies will continue. LCD may last, until the promise of OLED or some other technology comes about.
 

Ghpr13

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Very interesting article. I was not aware of the "image-retention" on plasmas as stated in the article. Great knowledge to have when making a choice.
Thanks and hope all goes well with your set.
Ghpr13:)
 

Tony S

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Hemi, I think that something is wrong with your TV. I have had my Panasonic Plasma TV for over 6 years. During that time I never did anything special. We played nintendo games for hours and I watched 4:3 TV without even thinking about it. I have never seen any image retention or burn in. In fact, it the picture looks about the same as when it was new. I know several others with plasma TVs and none of them have had any problems like you are describing.

For years now, the image retention and burn in argument has been used to scare people away from plasmas. However, if you read the AVS forums or look in consumer reports you will see that it is really not an issue anymore. Consumer reports has reported that the burn in risk on todays plasmas is about the same as it is for a CRT.
 
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Hemi 6.1

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Nice post. Thank you for taking the time to prepare it.

.
No problem, But the Panasonic Tech is the one who gave me this to read.:up

He was a fantastic Guy. Very smart! a Huge help.
VERY Honest and professional.

I give Panasonic an A++ in service.

And Yes Tony S My TV did have an issue, But was still within the Panasonic standard. Meaning Image Retention is 100% common with Plasmas.

Its comes down to how much of it you consider to be acceptable .
Panasonic is sending him back in 30 days to do a follow up on the Temp and the amout of image retention suffered after a 15 minute test.


Oh yea also My 286 claimed Max wattage , was also really 307 watts during the power consumption test.:(

So make of that what you will, But it is using more power then Panasonic claims.
This was after the repairs!;)
 

Tony S

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Hemi, I am not saying that image retention does not exist. I am saying that for normal everyday TV viewing, you should not see image retention or burn in on your Plasma TV.

The article you posted does point out one of the issues with Plasma TVs but it is no different from the many articles that you can find about LED/LCD TVs that point out their shortcommings...poor black level, motion blur, color shift for off-axis viewing, brightness decrease for off axis viewing, etc. No technology is perfect, they all have pros and cons.
 

Hemi 6.1

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Hemi, I am not saying that image retention does not exist. I am saying that for normal everyday TV viewing, you should not see image retention or burn in on your Plasma TV.

.
Sorry I disagree.

I know they all have pros and cons, But Fact is LCD don't have very many if an rules on using one.

Plasmas come with all sorts of TV viewing rules, non of which are covered under warranty.

And I'm talking about My Plasma, Not my LCD's.

But if you want to talk LCD's Well the here are my thoughts,

All my LCDs works without complaints, Use less power,can View them with the shades open in the daytime, can let my Kids pause their shows, play video games and watch SD content on an HD channel with black bars, can watch hours of CNN, or ESPN News without worring about anything.

Thats the kind of tv I like.

Not one where I'm forced to worry about screen issues from just watching tv.
CRT's were never this bad.
 

msmith198025

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All my LCDs works without complaints, Use less power,can View them with the shades open in the daytime, can let my Kids pause their shows, play video games and watch SD content on an HD channel with black bars, can watch hours of CNN, or ESPN News without worring about anything.

Which is why I agree with the previous poster. I do all of that on every plasma I have had, including the two current pannys, and never have had to worry about the issue that you are describing. Hopefully he can fix it to your satisfaction.

I do agree with you on panny support though. It is absolutely top notch. I have posted two threads on that issue myself.
 
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