pbs sound problems

[B.J.]

I think the key may be that it isn't so much the HD but ATSC. Ie I may be wrong, but I think that the HD receivers that do AC3 are all the ones that also have a built in ATSC capability. Since the OTA ATSC channels all require AC3 decoding, those receivers have it built in, however an HD receiver that doesn't have ATSC doesn't necessarily have AC3 built in.

The Quali-TV doesn't have a OTA tuner in it

That fits what I said perfectly. Ie if it does have ATSC, then it must have AC3 capability, but if it doesn't have ATSC, then it may have AC3 but probably won't, because receiver manufacturers seem to have decided that it's not worth the extra cost for some reason. I can't think of a receiver, either SD or HD, that doesn't have ATSC but DOES have AC3 built in. And I can't think of a receiver that does have ATSC that doesn't have AC3. So I still say that at least now, ATSC is the key to whether a receiver will do AC3.

 

[Mr Tony]

The Q does have it built in...it has a dolby digital ouput and will output audio through the a/v cables

 

[AcWxRadar]

In simple words:

Analog tuner (NTSC) = no Digitial audio (this has to be so).

Digital tuner (ATSC) = Digital AC3 audio (usually so, but not always provided dependant upon receiver model).

Am I correct that this is what you are both inferring?

RADAR

 

[guapoharry]

I agree with the sticky sugestion. Or, maybe a post could be placed into the FAQ section.

There are continual threads asking about no sound / sound problems:

No sound on RetroJams
No sound on PBS
No sound on Equity Spanish channels on G-18
etc...

As others have said ... Unless you have a HD receiver, you need to connect your receiver to an external decoder to hear channels that use AC3 or Dolby digital sound encoding. (these decoders include... SonicVoom, Cyberhome, Extigy external cound card, a Home Theater System, or a TV with Digital In connection.)

Then you hear sound from that channel through the speakers connected to the decoder.

Both the decoder and the receiver need a SPDIF or a coaxial connection. SPDIFs connect together with optical cable. Coaxial connections connect using a cable with RCA plugs.

The big clue is when you are on a channel where the reciever displays a Dolby symbol. (See thumbnail.)

 

[jaco]

Doing Dolby?

HD does not mean that the receiver decodes Dolby but I think that all high-end receivers will pass Dolby audio on to another device.

After doing a fair amount of research I know of only two HD receivers that actually decode Dolby audio: the (1) Pansat 9200HD and the (2) nfusion Nuvenio HD. If anybody knows of any other receiver that decodes Dolby please post.

 

[eurosport]

After doing a fair amount of research I know of only two HD receivers that actually decode Dolby audio: the (1) Pansat 9200HD and the (2) nfusion Nuvenio HD. If anybody knows of any other receiver that decodes Dolby please post.

From my post #8 of this thread:

Yep, I have a Pansat 9200 and a Coolsat 8000, they both do Dolby AC3 straight out of the box

The Coolsat 8100 will do it too.

 

[Mr Tony]

yep the 8000 & 8100 are brothers with the 8100 having a PVR option

 

[jaco]

Decoding it? or Just Passing it Through?

From my post #8 of this thread:
The Coolsat 8100 will do it too.

Thank you for your response.

When you say "doing Dolby" you and Iceberg mean merely passing it through. Yes? To others, "doing Dolby" implies the actual decoding of Dolby audio which the Coolsat 8000 does not do. Personally, I needed an FTA receiver that decodes Dolby audio and was surprised to find only two receivers on the market that do this.

The reason I am so adamant about this point is that I almost bought the wrong receiver because I was advised by salespersons that all high-end receivers will handle Dolby audio. I later learned that most of them handle it by passing it through. If the Coolsat 8000 "did Dolby straight out of the box" it is only because the Dolby audio was passed through to a separate sound system that did the audio decoding.

If I am mistaken about any of the above please let me know and I will retract or edit this post. If not, then I think that any sticky should include mention of the small number of high-end receivers that actually decode Dolby audio. These would be the (1) Pansat 9200HD, (2) nfusion Nuvenio HD, and (3) {?any others that I don't know of?}. Most high-end receivers merely pass the Dolby through.

Best . . .

 

[B.J.]

Thank you for your response.

When you say "doing Dolby" you and Iceberg mean merely passing it through. Yes? To others, "doing Dolby" implies the actual decoding of Dolby audio which the Coolsat 8000 does not do. Personally, I needed an FTA receiver that decodes Dolby audio and was surprised to find only two receivers on the market that do this.

The reason I am so adamant about this point is that I almost bought the wrong receiver because I was advised by salespersons that all high-end receivers will handle Dolby audio. I later learned that most of them handle it by passing it through. If the Coolsat 8000 "did Dolby straight out of the box" it is only because the Dolby audio was passed through to a separate sound system that did the audio decoding.

If I am mistaken about any of the above please let me know and I will retract or edit this post. If not, then I think that any sticky should include mention of the small number of high-end receivers that actually decode Dolby audio. These would be the (1) Pansat 9200HD, (2) nfusion Nuvenio HD, and (3) {?any others that I don't know of?}. Most high-end receivers merely pass the Dolby through.

Best . . .

Both the Coolsat 8100(and 8000) and the Diamond 9000 actually decode AC3. Ie sound comes out through the L/R RCA ports. Older SD receivers generally pass it through, if they have SPDIF outputs, although some receivers with SPDIF outputs DON'T, or at least don't until the firmware is updated.

EDIT: And as I posted, OTA ATSC uses AC3, so any receiver that does local digital channels will pretty much have to decode AC3. Receivers that DON'T do OTA local channels might include that capability, such as the QualiTV thing Ice mentioned, but generally they won't.

 

[jaco]

Spec Sheets Understating Features

Both the Coolsat 8100(and 8000) and the Diamond 9000 actually decode AC3. Ie sound comes out through the L/R RCA ports. Older SD receivers generally pass it through, if they have SPDIF outputs, although some receivers with SPDIF outputs DON'T, or at least don't until the firmware is updated.

Oops!

I'll confess that all of my comments and conclusions were based on spec sheets. The spec sheets for the Diamond 9000 HD and the Coolsat 8000 HD state "Dolby digital audio output (S/PDIF) S-Video" or "Dolby Digital(AC3) 5.1 Channel Surround Sound via optical" with no mention of decoding. When shopping for my first FTA receiver I never considered them. I hope others can learn from this.

My final decision was between the Pansat 9200HD and nfusion Nuvenio HD because they are the only FTA receivers whose spec sheets explicitly state "Audio Decoding : Dolby AC-3". I wish I had known that "any receiver that does local digital channels will pretty much have to decode AC3" because I am not happy with my Pansat 9200 HD. I had to send it back to Pansat after a month. The one they replaced it with has to be reset several times a month but that's another story for a different thread.

Thanks everybody.

 

[B.J.]

Oops!

I'll confess that all of my comments and conclusions were based on spec sheets. The spec sheets for the Diamond 9000 HD and the Coolsat 8000 HD state "Dolby digital audio output (S/PDIF) S-Video" or "Dolby Digital(AC3) 5.1 Channel Surround Sound via optical" with no mention of decoding. When shopping for my first FTA receiver I never considered them. I hope others can learn from this.

My final decision was between the Pansat 9200HD and nfusion Nuvenio HD because they are the only FTA receivers whose spec sheets explicitly state "Audio Decoding : Dolby AC-3". I wish I had known that "any receiver that does local digital channels will pretty much have to decode AC3" because I am not happy with my Pansat 9200 HD. I had to send it back to Pansat after a month. The one they replaced it with has to be reset several times a month but that's another story for a different thread.

Thanks everybody.

I must admit that I had assumed the same thing about both the 8100 and the 9000HD from the specs. I think I had my Coolsat a good 8 or 9 months before I realized that AC3 sound came out of the R/L RCA outputs, and I think I even used one of those receivers with a Sonic Voom for a while. I think someone posted that the Coolsat or Diamond decoded AC3, and I was about to dissagree, but decided to check first, and was really surprised, but then it dawned on me that they needed AC3 decoding to do the ATSC OTA stuff, so it probably wasn't a big deal to have it decode sat stuff too.
BTW, just to be double certain, before making the above response, I double checked again, but running PBS sound into the RC inputs that my DTV usually goes into. After confirming, I turned down the volume almost all the way. About an hour later, my wife said "I keep hearing what sounds like kids talking, but I can't figure out where it's coming from". I had CNN on the screen at the time, so she didn't associate it with the TV.

 

[BobbyJim]

Hey - you solved it for me too! Noticed the same problem last night - good pic, no sound. Thanks a bunch

 

[zamar23]

OTA ATSC uses AC3, so any receiver that does local digital channels will pretty much have to decode AC3. Receivers that DON'T do OTA local channels might include that capability, such as the QualiTV thing Ice mentioned, but generally they won't.

Why an ATSC Tuner can't pass AC-3 signal to SPFID instead of decoding it, like most DVB-S tuners do?

Is there a posted complete list of current Sat STBs having both ATSC and DVB-S/S2 tuners? What are they?

 

[B.J.]

Why an ATSC Tuner can't pass AC-3 signal to SPFID instead of decoding it, like most DVB-S tuners do?

...

??? I did not say that a receiver that does ATSC "can't pass AC-3 to" SPDIF . What I said was that receivers with ATSC must have the capability to decode it because OTA ATSC uses AC-3. The new HD receivers that do ATSC DO pass AC-3 to their SPDIF ports. They both decode it AND pass it. The receivers (and it has nothing to do with them being DVB-S) that don't have ATSC usually only pass the AC-3, although there are apparently exceptions to that.

 

[zamar23]

Sorry for asking to clarify, but why ATSC Tuners "must have a capability" to decode AC-3 internally, while DVB-S/S2 and other receivers don't seem to have such requirement, and can simply pass the signal via SPDIF or decode it in the receiver based on manufacturer's choice? Are you referring to a particular standard, law or regulation requirement about ATSC receivers - which one?

 

[B.J.]

Sorry for asking to clarify, but why ATSC Tuners "must have a capability" to decode AC-3 internally, while DVB-S/S2 and other receivers don't seem to have such requirement, and can simply pass the signal via SPDIF or decode it in the receiver based on manufacturer's choice? Are you referring to a particular standard, law or regulation requirement about ATSC receivers - which one?

No, I didn't mean must as if it was a requirement, but just that they'd have a hard time selling one if it didn't decode AC3. I mean, would you buy a television, if all you got was picture, and no sound? Most new TVs also have an SPDF output so that you can optionally do the audio via an external sound system if you want, but they couldn't sell them if they didn't decode it internally.
The AC3 decoder is extra cost in a dvb receiver, and most of the plain DVB-S receivers are pretty low cost things to start with, and most of the channels they receive don't need AC3, so they don't bother with it. But with these newer high end HD receivers, either DVB-S or DVB-S2 capable, if they put a 2nd tuner that does ATSC, then they really need to go to the added expense of putting an AC3 decoder in the receiver (it's not in the tuner), otherwise more than half the people who bought them wouldn't get any sound out of ANY of the OTA channels, unless they bought additional hardware. So you're right, that it's not that they MUST have a decoder, but it's like selling a car without wheels. Nobody would buy them if they didn't.

 

[Dirty Harry Callahan]

Not trying to get off topic but......Let me "muddy the water" a little more, are there more than one Ac-3 formats? i.e one for North Amercia and one for Europe?

 

[slimler]

I recently tried the Sonic Voom decoder and found a few issues...

1. It decodes DD (AC3), but it does not decode DTS. When I fed it a DTS signal, it only produced silence. (My AV receiver decodes the DTS signal just fine.)

2. The 1/8" headphone jack carries the front left, front right, and LFE channels, but it does not carry any sounds from the center or surround channels (which are probably carried by the rectangular jack). This does not matter for 2.0 DD signals, but it does matter for 5.1 DD signals, particularly since dialog tends to be in the center channel mostly.

3. The G9 connector (9-pin mini-DIN) has a non-standard pinout, which might be a problem if you want to use that output (to feed a 5.1 speaker system, for example).

 

[B.J.]

I recently tried the Sonic Voom decoder and found a few issues...
........
2. The 1/8" headphone jack carries the front left, front right, and LFE channels, but it does not carry any sounds from the center or surround channels (which are probably carried by the rectangular jack). This does not matter for 2.0 DD signals, but it does matter for 5.1 DD signals, particularly since dialog tends to be in the center channel mostly.

3. The G9 connector (9-pin mini-DIN) has a non-standard pinout, which might be a problem if you want to use that output (to feed a 5.1 speaker system, for example).

It is well known that all you get is the L/R channels, and that you may miss dialog and/or other audio in other channels.
If you have a AC3 capable sound system already, you're not going to use a Sonic Voom to feed it, you'd just go direct to the sound system, so I don't see any way that the non-standard plug would ever be an issue.
The Sonic Voom has been proposed only as a way to get R/L audio on AC3 channels when you DON'T have a surround sound system, not to somehow produce surround sound out of regular TV or stereo speakers. For 95% of the AC3 channels on sat, the Sonic Voom does that just fine.

 

[meinename]

I recently tried the Sonic Voom decoder and found a few issues...

1. It decodes DD (AC3), but it does not decode DTS. When I fed it a DTS signal, it only produced silence. (My AV receiver decodes the DTS signal just fine.)

2. The 1/8" headphone jack carries the front left, front right, and LFE channels, but it does not carry any sounds from the center or surround channels (which are probably carried by the rectangular jack). This does not matter for 2.0 DD signals, but it does matter for 5.1 DD signals, particularly since dialog tends to be in the center channel mostly.

3. The G9 connector (9-pin mini-DIN) has a non-standard pinout, which might be a problem if you want to use that output (to feed a 5.1 speaker system, for example).

How did you feed the SonicVoom a DTS signal?

I know it works with DTS.
I took "Pirates of the Caribbean" DVD and fed it to my Panasonic S53 upscaler and Daewoo P480 at separate times
Hooked up the Sonic Voom via RCA coaxial
Switched the audio feed to DTS audio and got sound just fine with the SonicVoom (CH-SRD 600) when the movie was playing.