Permits for satellites? (1 Viewer)

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chadzx11

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 28, 2006
1,190
0
memphis
When is a permit required? A permit is required whenever an owner or his authorized agent (usually a contractor) proposes to construct, enlarge, alter, repair, move, demolish or change the occupancy of a building or structure, including electrical, plumbing, gas, heating and air conditioning, fire sprinkler and fire extinguishing systems, signs, elevators, incinerators, furnaces or boilers. A permit is also required for fences, tents, satellite dishes or portable storage structures.

found this here. Guess I won't be installing in Jackson Ms anytime soon. However, it was my impression that this was against the OTARD rules found here.

The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal.

Anybody ever run into this type of thing before? Is it legal? I was researching to see what type of licenses, ect might be required in MS.
 
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dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
chadzx11 said:
found this here. Guess I won't be installing in Jackson Ms anytime soon. However, it was my impression that this was against the OTARD rules found here.



Anybody ever run into this type of thing before? Is it legal? I was researching to see what type of licenses, ect might be required in MS.
FCC regulations (fact sheet on dish placement..fcc.gov) supersede all local laws and regulations regarding satellite antennas less than one meter in diameter..this includes home owners and condo associations and the like....
A municipality attempting to enforce an obscure and vague code would certainly find itself in an embarrassing situation...
If I were you, just protect my self, I would go to the above website and print out the fact sheet on dish placement and keep it with you.....
i was doing an install on a town home when I was confronted by a nosy neighbor...I explained to this idiot chapter and verse on the FCC regs..he thought i was BS ing him so I told him he was wasting my time and he drove of in a huff. 5 mins later after calming my very pissed off customer down he comes back ..with a guy he ID'd as the president of the HOA...I told both guys I was in no mood to deal with them but in the interest of my saving time I went to my truck and hand them both a copy of the FCC regs and went back to work..The original guy was so pissed off. He said he didn't care what the federal govt said..he was going to take action..I told that guy if he threatened me or my customer( a pretty big guy) one more time, the talking was going to be over with....BTW the president of the HOA read the guidelines and had to get the other guy to leave....
 

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
Building permits are required in almost every area (some items differ) and have NOTHING to do with the FCC & OTARD exceptions, or the locality or HOA trying to ban dishes or not; it is there only to make sure proper local codes are adhered to for the install or construction, not for the dish itself. Rarely are they checked up on for the minimal hour or two sat install, but can lead to issues if something drastic goes wrong due to said install or construction (during or later). Building permits are the full responsibility of the owner. Even installing a simple fence requires a permit in most areas.
 
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dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
charper1 said:
Building permits are required in almost every area (some items differ) and have NOTHING to do with the FCC & OTARD exceptions, or the locality or HOA trying to ban dishes or not; it is there only to make sure proper local codes are adhered to for the install or construction, not for the dish itself. Rarely are they checked up on for the minimal hour or two sat install, but can lead to issues if something drastic goes wrong due to said install.

Even installing a simple fence requires a permit in most areas.
I think you are missing the point here..First a bldg permit is required only if ther building is being modified. or if a new strcuture over a certain dollar value is erected.There is also a minimum amount of job cost that must be met before a bldg permit is needed...For instance If put a up a $100 metal awning above my back door , I don't need a permit...And you certainly don't need one for a satellite install..Please do not spread misinformation....
I was a builder for three years..I pulled permits..I have knowledge in this area...
 
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charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
NO, you need to get your facts straight. I was correcting the mis-information that building permits are superseded by OTARD. In fact permits have NOTHING to do with this.

I also was stating that building permits can be required BUT DIFFER BY AREA and ITEMS (and cost as you included)! MEANING that sometimes they will NOT be required (but that you should ALWAYS CHECK), but my main point was that this has ZERO to do with the FCC and OTARD as you stated.

A home owner should NEVER blanket assume what their laws are as opposed to a 2 minute phone call to check it out .

Exactly when a permit is required can vary by state and/or county and can be required for more than during building modifications. Read some law.
 
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chadzx11

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 28, 2006
1,190
0
memphis
charper1 said:
Building permits are the full responsibility of the owner.

So what does that mean? It doesn't fall under the category of adding to the cost of installation or unreasonable delay. What if the homeowner doesn't have one and the CE thug shows up? Does the installer get a ticket or what?

Germantown, TN had a similar deal, but they dropped it (the need for a permit), we were told because of OTARD. I had a customer who was concerned call in while I was on site, they were just given some basic guidelines, similar to an apartment complex. I can see Germantown, Tn; Ridgeland and Madison, MS, but Jackson, MS? That place is a craphole! They should have required permits 50 years ago. LOL!
 

charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
Most residential permits (when needed) are VERY cheap, many under $20, and as stated above, depending on the cost of the job, may not even be required, and Will take less than 2mins to determine. The home owner SHOULD still call to make sure what their municipality requires for or the during the install; the permit expires at completion

Building permits are ONLY for maintaining proper local coding. The are not designed to allow or disallow the dish. Every municipality has codes, regardless of affluence. I lived in Germantown for 12 years, and their BUILDING codes and no more or less than that of Memphis or Bartlett.

What you are thinking of town/city ordinances (and HOAs) and those are designed to allow and disallow and are superseded by FCC/OTARD for items that fall within the covered guidelines.
 
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mikekohl

Prehistoric Satellite Guru
Supporting Founder
Jun 4, 2004
802
187
Montfort, Wisconsin
A fellow satellite installer (from my days in California--1980s) told me of a legal definition that he helped get on the books within the state of California, due to a resulting court decision. (I don't have an exact reference)...but the result was that a taxing jurisdiction attempting to limit a C-band installation was erroneously trying to value the work based upon the cost of the entire installation.

In the end, only the 3-1/2 inch OD steel mast pipe and cement qualified as a "permanent" structure, and "structure" is what was at the center of the tax argument. The satellite antenna was considered removable and thus temporary, and could not be taxed in the manner proposed. Same logic sort of applies in using a non-penetrating roof mount as opposed to a cemented pole mast pipe.
The NPRM is "temporary", and is hard to regulate except on the basis of safety issues. A cemented mast may indeed require a permit in some areas, but most NPRMs do not---at least for ground mounts. There are liability issues on roof tops, so safety inspections enter the picture there.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
charper1 said:
NO, you need to get your facts straight. I was correcting the mis-information that building permits are superseded by OTARD. In fact permits have NOTHING to do with this.

I also was stating that building permits can be required BUT DIFFER BY AREA and ITEMS (and cost as you included)! MEANING that sometimes they will NOT be required (but that you should ALWAYS CHECK), but my main point was that this has ZERO to do with the FCC and OTARD as you stated.

A home owner should NEVER blanket assume what their laws are as opposed to a 2 minute phone call to check it out .

Exactly when a permit is required can vary by state and/or county and can be required for more than during building modifications. Read some law.
ok I was a builder and i have no idea what I'm talking about...that's rich...
Look, before you take this to a personal level....check your data...Then go see the dept of buildings/construction in your areas municpalities..look if you want to pull permits for dish installs (if they wil give you one) and allow that level of scrutiny on your work be my guest...The minute any town/city starts requiring permits the whole busines goes out the window..the costs for the extra work would make satellite unaffordable....
I stated that the FCC regs do apply here..You say they don't ..so far in 8 years I have NEVER ran into a situation where a permit was required...They are not required now and proabaly never will be....so where do you get your info from...Have youy gone ot the city hall and gotten official documentation..Typically if a permit is required, professional work requirs a license..Do you have a satellite installers license issued by your state/ county/city?......
 
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charper1

Bourbon Tester
Supporting Founder
May 18, 2004
18,442
6
I'm Nationwide
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAN!

Yes, I am going to be a dick here, because you are failing to read!

For the 5 time: I said they may or may not be required and that any smart home owner will at least take 2 minutes to make a call if they have any concerns. If no municipality requires one, GREAT. I never said they explicitly do.

You keep reading into this what you want to avoid the ONLY point of my reply:

MY point is this is NOT A OTARD/NOT A FCC concern, it would be a local municipality issue (building code issue) at best; and no one cares that you used to be, or are currently a builder; you could be a lawyer or the mayor of said city for all I care, but it has ZERO influence here.

Once again, so there is no confusion on what I am saying; if particular city codes only require building permits for BUDs and not DBS, as I have very well agreed is more than likely the case, that is great, but it never hurts for any smart home owner to ask first if they have concerns.

But whether or not a building permit is needed or not needed, is of NO CONCERN OF THE FCC!

Below is my quote:

charper1 said:
Most residential permits (when needed) are VERY cheap, many under $20, and as stated above, depending on the cost of the job, may not even be required, and Will take less than 2mins to determine. The home owner SHOULD still call to make sure what their municipality requires for or the during the install; the permit expires at completion

Building permits are ONLY for maintaining proper local coding. The are not designed to allow or disallow the dish. Every municipality has codes, regardless of affluence. I lived in Germantown for 12 years, and their BUILDING codes and no more or less than that of Memphis or Bartlett.

What you are thinking of town/city ordinances (and HOAs) and those are designed to allow and disallow and are superseded by FCC/OTARD for items that fall within the covered guidelines.
 
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No Strings

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 17, 2005
152
0
Mitchell, South Dakota
I have a question,

I am moving into an apartment that does already allow DBS antennas to be installed, but does this FCC ruling mean that no landlord can impede you from installing a DBS antenna as long at it is under 1m?

Neal
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
charper1 said:
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAN!

Yes, I am going to be a dick here, because you are failing to read!

For the 5 time: I said they may or may not be required and that any smart home owner will at least take 2 minutes to make a call if they have any concerns. If no municipality requires one, GREAT. I never said they explicitly do.

You keep reading into this what you want to avoid the ONLY point of my reply:

MY point is this is NOT A OTARD/NOT A FCC concern, it would be a local municipality issue (building code issue) at best; and no one cares that you used to be, or are currently a builder; you could be a lawyer or the mayor of said city for all I care, but it has ZERO influence here.

Once again, so there is no confusion on what I am saying; if particular city codes only require building permits for BUDs and not DBS, as I have very well agreed is more than likely the case, that is great, but it never hurts for any smart home owner to ask first if they have concerns.

But whether or not a building permit is needed or not needed, is of NO CONCERN OF THE FCC!

Below is my quote:

Fine, i understand your point...as weak as it may be..
Question :If the issues(OTARD/FCC vs building permits) are mutually exclusive then why bring it up?
Not really looking for an answer. That's more of a statement than a question...
Again, if you want to make inquiries as whether you have to pull permits in each town you go to , you're welcome to it.
 

dragon002

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 7, 2005
2,656
0
DONORA PA
here is the permit answer from the article.

Because OTARD is a federal law, it overrides any local or state laws, including the requirement to obtain a permit before the dish is installed.
 

Van

SatelliteGuys Master
Jul 8, 2004
9,316
1
Virginia Beach
Well I can pass this along to any installers that are working in southern michigan, the small town of Hudson Michigan passed an ordinance forbidding the installation of any size satellite dish in the front yard of any residence or property within city limits about 2 years ago and all of the property owners are aware of this issue.

Wich will override this, the otard or the fcc?
 
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chadzx11

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 28, 2006
1,190
0
memphis
Van said:
Well I can pass this along to any installers that are working in southern michigan, the small town of Hudson Michigan passed an ordinance forbidding the installation of any size satellite dish in the front yard of any residence or property within city limits about 2 years ago and all of the property owners are aware of this issue.

Wich will override this, the otard or the fcc?

That sounds like Germantown, Tn. Only, most of those people paid loads for their houses and landscaping, and just don't want a dish around front. Not to mention the whole rocking the boat deal.


Memphis had a code enforcement inspector go apeshit, writing tickets for BS. Somebody turned her in to one of the TV stations, and her house was all over the news. It was a dump. I was not shocked, though, because they mentioned her zip code before they showed the pictures. I think she got fired. That was one costly power trip, eh?
 

scotsmanron

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 23, 2006
542
0
Florida
I think you all will love this story. Back in 1994 when I got my first D* I did the install myself on a two story townhouse. The dish was right next to the firewall and you couldn't see it unless you were looking for it. So far so good. This was before the FCC rule was signed. Well, for about 13-14 months nothing was said. All of the sudden I got a notice from the HOA that it had to come down. I ignored it. I got another letter, this one threatened to put a lien on my home and have the authorities forceably remove the dish. Almost to the day Clinton signed the FCC ruling. I ignored the second letter, but I had a copy of that FCC ruling printed out and waiting.:devil:

Next thing I know is I get a letter from the HOA's lawyer certified and the whole nine yards. I'm loving this now. I take my copy and write them a letter telling them if they don't get off my back I'm going to turn them in to the FCC.

A couple of weeks later I get a call from the Florida Dept of State, Division of Corporations. HUH??? A very nice man on the phone laughs and wants to know who I've pissed off!!! It seemed that the HOA didn't take kindly to me calling their bluff. This part of the State is responsible for Condominium rules and the HOA wanted them to declare them a "Condo" so that they could prohibit the sat dishes!!! He told me that when the told the HOA that the were out in left field and that they couldn't do that if they wanted to, that the busy body from the HOA got so pissed that he thought he was going to have a stroke!!!! The HOA lawyer even tried to get the rules changed and they told her she didn't know enough law to even try!!!!:haha

I sold that townhouse in 2004, the dish had never been moved. The Condo Nazi that started the whole thing moved back to Massachusetts in 2001. :clap
 
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