Phase III transponder signal strength

[Mofishin]

I have a weird problem which started yesterday with signal strength on my triple lnb dish. A little background:

The dish is WNC; 2 coaxial feeds into an RCA and Samsung HD receiver. Installed and operating for several months. Because of mature trees causing interference this summer, it was necessary to move the dish about 70 feet. I added coax to the existing run and total distance is 175-200 feet with in-line amps in both legs. Dish operated well after move and signal strength was 75-90 on 101, 85-95 on 110 and 119. Worked fine for two days after move.

Now for the weird part. Turn on the set yesterday (about noon; temp around 90) and I have a badly garbled picture on 360. Cycle through channels and discover problem is on channels that use odd transponders. Check signal strength and find that 110 and 119 are fine; however, 101 has good signal strength on all even transponders and really poor signal strength on all odd transponders (from 15-30!). In the process of troubleshooting, I disconnected one of the incoming coax lines and the transponder strength on all odd transponders returned to normal on the coax which was still connected to a receiver. Hooked up the second coax and the odd transponders again dropped to 15-30! I then disconnected the second coax and left it disconnected for a few hours. The second set worked fine and the odd transponder signal levels were good. After several hours (around five in the afternoon) I again hooked up the second coax and BOTH receivers worked fine with good odd transponder signal strength. However, after about an hour of operation, the odd transponder signal strength dropped again. Went to bed that way. This morning (six AM) all is working well and signal strength on odd transponders is back to normal.

Now, I don't know a lot about the inner workings of the DTV triple LNB with integrated multiswitch, so here is where I am at present. I moved the dish two days ago; added about 75feet of cable and four coax connecters. However, dish worked fine for two days after move. Problem started yesterday and appears intermittently (also hottest days of year since installation). Dish working fine this morning. Leads me to believe problem is either in coax (intermittent) or LNB (intermittent).

What would cause only odd numbered transponders on 101 to lose signal strength intermittently with two of four switch outputs connected? I tried moving the coax connections on the LNB to other conections with no change in the symptoms. Could an intermittent connection in the shield cause a drop in signal strength on ONLY the odd transponders, or is this a heat related problem with the LNB and multi?

Thanks for your input.

 

[al]

Re-run your cabling with RG6 Quad Shield, with solid center conductor (not copper clad steel). You may have a voltage problem due to your long cable run.

 

[tach18k]

Make sure your center conductor has enough length at the fittings. sometimes in long runs, the center conductor will retract and loose connection or provide an bad one. Temperture has a big roll in this. My cable phone used to go wacking at night but fine during the day all due to extrem high and extrem low daily temps. Also the amps only increase what you have, not just make it better. Remember crap in crap out.

 

[Mofishin]

Thanks Al and Tach18K for your responses. However, I don't believe cabling is the issue. The system worked for several months and for a few days after moving, with no issues. I did add about 75' of RG6 but signal levels are acceptable (around 80 minimum to 92 max) when 101 is working properly. When this happens I get scrambled channels on all channels delivered through ODD numbered transponders on 101; all the channels on 101 even numbered transponders are fine and all the 110 and 119 channels are fine. If this was a power issue, I would think it would effect all transponders. Also, I can disconnect one of the two feeds into separate receivers and the odd numbered transponder outputs return to a normal high level (for instance channel 360 normally operates with a signal strength of 91 on transponder 27. When this problem appears the signal strength drops to between 15 and 30. If I disconnect the feed to one of the two receivers I have connected to this dish the other receiver signal level on 27 will return to a high (91) level and the picture is clear. It does not matter which receiver I disconnect. Result is the same; the signal strength returns to normal.) This effects ALL odd transponders at the same time. This sounds to me like a problem in the integrated multiswitch of the triple LNB. However, I am not an expert and am looking for advice from those who are.

Tech18k, I replaced all my RG6 connectors just now... no help.

 

[al]

Mofishin: Please keep in mind that a cabling problem would indeed cause a problem with the integrated multi switch of the triple LNBF. This is exactly what I am talking about. The receivers control the LNBF's with voltage variations (13 and 18 volts) and tone signalling (0 and 22 KHz). Just because your receivers are showing strong signal strength means absolutely nothing. I have seen many issues of cabling which worked fine suddenly "going out". The cable tests fine, but begins to act "goofy" at different times of the day.

I recently had a situation at my own home with a long cable run that is very similar to yours. In this instance, I have an 80 ft run from dish antenna to 4 high frequency splitters. Cable was copper clad steel center RG6. From the splitters to one 5x4 switch (I have the older style 3 sat dish w/o the internal switch) in my shop, and out to a 5x8 switch another 100 ft away through conduit to my house. This setup has worked fine for 2 years. One day it began to act goofy, and was very intermittent. I would get strong signals on 101, low signals on 110, and no signal on any transponder on 119 EXCEPT tp 27, which was 98%. I tested things, and spent many hours with trial and error, but only when I replaced the cable with solid copper center RG6 Quad did everything clear up.

tach18k is dead on with the in line bullet amps. They do not replace high quality cabling. They only amplify what is there. If your LNBF's are not communicating with your receivers, the amp won't help. He is also correct with the cable ends. If the center conductor is not sticking out of the end far enough, it can contract far enough into the cable not to make a good connection. You have indicated, however, that you put new ends on, lengthening the center conductor in the process.

If you want to be convinced about the cabling prior to running new cable, take a couple of receivers and connect where you spliced into the cable to extend it. My guess is that everything will work fine, as you have shortened the cable length to acceptable levels. I may be wrong about what your problem is, but what you are describing is almost always a cabling problem.

Sorry for the long post. If I can be of further help, please ask. You may PM me if you wish.

Alan

 

[Mofishin]

Al,
I tried your suggestion with my receivers and it worked when I moved them, did not when I put them back... off to the cable shop tomorrow to buy another 500' drum of RG6 quad. Thanks to you and Tach18K for your help!

 

[al]

Glad to be of help. Make sure the cable you buy has a solid copper conductor. Some RG6 Quad is copper clad steel, and does not carry the signal as far as solid copper. Also, do not splice your cables, if you can help it. At 200 ft, you want to keep your signal loss to a minimum.

Good Luck

Al

 

[Saddlesitting]

Maybe Same Problem

Forgive me if this has been discussed, but I feel my problem is the same as others here.

I have 2 tivo recievers in my house. Hughes in living room and Phillips in the Bedroom. I have an oval dish wioth dual LNB and a RCA multiswitch. I had everything working great until about 2 months ago.


I get a message everyday that I have lost signal in satellite 1. On the hughes unit I am able to reset by going to the satellite set-up and checking the transponders. (It resets for a while and does it again. About 2 times a day)

Now on the phillps unit I can watch some channels but not others I usually get. If I go to a channel that doesn't come in it gives me the message of lost signal. (Message goes away if I change back to a channel with picture). I check the transponders and I get great strength on all odd numbered transponders. I get no signal on all even number transponders.

The only way I have found to reset the Phillips problem is to unplug the unit from the wall and the satellite dish and wait about 10 mins then It will go through set up and BAM good to go until tomarrow.

Now another weird deal. If I hook up my hold hughes box (NOT TIVO) I have no problems what so ever. All transpnders (except the obvious ones) will have great strength. Some on 100.

I have ran quality cable to try to correct this. I switched out the dual LNB. I have replaced every sinlge part from the dish to the reciever.

I still have the same problem. It hasn't been easy to fix because I have to wiat for the problem to occur to see if something worked or not.

I feel maybe the RCA multiswitch may be the problem (I replaced it with another RCA multiswitch though).

Would the multiswitch still give me great signal on a non Tivo unit.

I must get this corrected before Football season.

Please help or tell me where to find help.

Thank you

SS

 

[al]

What kind of distance is there between the antenna (dish) and the multiswitch? From the multiswitch to the receivers?

If you do not get even transponders, that is a voltage problem. The receivers communicate with your LNBF with voltage variations. 13v for odd transponders, and 18v for even. When you do not get even transponders, the LNBF is not receiving the 18v from the receiver.

Assuming that your total cable run is under 125 ft, I would attempt this first. Check any outdoor cable connections (connections to a ground block, splice with barrell, etc...) to check for corrision. If the connections are all clean, take two barrell connectors, and connect one of your DirecTiVo's direct to LNBF, with both LNBF connections to one receiver (you are bypassing the switch), and see if you have any problems. Keep it that way for enough time for the receiver to typically act up. Then do the same thing with the other DirecTiVo. If neither receiver acts up connected directly to the LNBF , then you can begin to suspect the switch. A bad switch can definately cause the symptoms you describe.

If you still have problems, then the switch is definately NOT the problem, and you need to address your voltage problems. Like Mofishin, you most likely have a cabling problem. While his problem was too long of a run with the type of cable used, your culprit (assuming a normal (not overly long) cable run) is most likely your connectors, They may either be shorting out, or not enough center conductor is sticking through. If you are using twist on ends, for example, you can very easily short out your cable.


Best thing to do is systematic troubleshooting, and eliminate as many possibilities as you can. Let us know what you find, and we can help further. If it turns out to be your multiswitch, purchase a decent replacement. Contact a local retailer, or check with Claude at The Dish Store.net. Either can help you with a multi-switch.

Best of luck

Al

 

[Saddlesitting]

I have now tried a few of the solutions you described. I found (1) that my mulitswitch was no longer being ground. (Darn Lawnmower). I made sure it was getting contact now. Still problem persists. I ran a cable from the multiswitch the the reciever and total lenght is 25 feet. Still persists. I mentioned that I can put a hughes reciever (not tivo) on the same line and not have any trouble with the transponders. (Isn't it 18 volts either way)?

I replaced the Tivo reciever before and no change.

I will run more tests tonight.

Thanks for the help

SS

 

[al]

Did you bypass the switch completely like I suggested?

 

[Saddlesitting]

Heres the thing. I have ran directly off the dual LNB on my dish and there is no trouble. However this is only true if running both to a single rieceiver. I am starting to believe that there is something to do with the TERK OTA antenna I have. If I bypass this and the multiswitch then I am trouble free. I have asked in another post about getting local from another city. (If someone says it will work than I will trash the antenna).

I thought about buying a triple LNB but didn't want the cost if I didn't need it.

Can I mount two satellits dishes (I hate to) and run on to the Bedroom and the other to the living room?

I will work on this somemore.

SS

Thank you

 

[al]

What I was suggesting was to run both LNBF connections direct to one receiver. But since you mentioned the Terk, my guess is that is the culprit.

Is your Terk the one that straps to the dish antenna itself? If so, are you using the provided Terk diplexer prior to going into your multiswitch? Does your multiswitch have an ota input?

You will probably eliminate your problem by running your OTA in a separate cable, split into two at the multiswitch, and run a separate cable to each receiver for offair (or diplex after the multiswitch). If this cannot be accomplished, the info above will help to figure out what wiring configuration will correct your problem.

Alan

 

[al]

Mofishin:

Did the new wire take care of your problem?

Alan

 

[Saddlesitting]

OK Now I can breath again as I have made progress in tracing this problem.

I took the terk antenna off the dish and just for grins I replaced the dish with another I had never taken out of the box. This had a new dual LNB as well. First I ran off my new Dual LNB to the multiswitch. Still had trouble on only 1 but not both recievers. Hmmmmmmmm. I ditched the multiswitch and hooked my dish into the cable that runs through my walls. Presto No problem. However I can't have more than 2 lines used. I have both currently going to my Tivo in the living room to keep that from messing up my season passes. No problems to report. I plan to get a new multiswitch and hope I am trouble free. I suspect the multiswitch again because on output three I get no signal at all even when the other 3 show great numbers. I will let you know how it works out.

Thanks for the help

SS

 

[al]

I had a customer once who had two DirecTiVo's, and was using an off brand 8 way multiswitch. For some reason, the TiVo units kept burning them out. I installed a JVI Trunkline 8 way switch, and he has had no problem since. Get in touch with a retailer, and purchase a high quality switch, and you shouldn't have any more problems.

 

[hookup]

Help Please

hi , i bought a silver bullet enforcer, i get
everything on 119west,and i get everything on 110 west
except for the ppv channels, someone told if i can get
playboy in spanish, thats means i get everything on
110 west......the transponders where the ppv channels are all in white, how do i get those certain transponder signal stronger.., because all my other transponders are in yellow, like i said except the ppv ones......how can i get everything on 110west excpet
for ppv channels, do i need a bigger dish, or change
the frequency's on transponders where the ppv's are
on... PLEEEEEASE!!! help me
with this problem..thanks u very much

mike