Plan to "somewhat" retiring Roberto Clemente's #21 may gather some steam....

salsadancer7

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Jun 1, 2004
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After reading a GREAT article provided by McCoryJ(you have no idea how much that article meant to me! THANKS!!!), I did some reading and found this article in a Pittsburgh newspaper. I think it is a wonderful idea!

PHOENIX — Those of us in favor of retiring Roberto Clemente's No. 21 across Major League Baseball had to know five years ago that it had no chance. It was then, at Pittsburgh's All-Star Game, that Bud Selig presented the Clemente family with the Commissioner's Achievement Award — whatever that is — in Roberto's name and, essentially, quashed momentum building at the time.

But that might be changing.

In what undoubtedly has been my favorite experience of All-Star week, the Clementes told me they are formulating a Plan B, and a wonderful one at that.

I met with Vera Clemente, Roberto's widow, and Luis, one of three sons, Monday at a charity event. Upon sharing with them anew my views on retiring No. 21, Vera tapped her heart.

"I believe in destiny," she said. "I believe it's meant to be."

"But how?" I asked.

Selig was as blunt as can be in his World Series news conference two years ago when he declared that no player will have his number retired across baseball the way Jackie Robinson's No. 42 was in 1997. "Jackie Robinson transcended baseball," Selig said then. "You want to be very careful about retiring numbers. We honor Roberto every chance we get in every other way we can."

Vera began to answer my question when Luis jumped in to mention the plan, which is still in the formative stage but could be brought to baseball's powers before long. Per the plan, Luis said, a player could only wear No. 21 "if he earns it."

So, if a Puerto Rican such as the New York Mets' Carlos Beltran asks to wear the number and honor Clemente as many Latino players have done ...

"No," Vera interjected. "He has to earn it."

That's when it resonated: The only players who could wear No. 21 would be those who have won the Roberto Clemente Award, which has been given annually since 1972 — the year of Clemente's death — to players of all 30 teams who best exemplify excellence on and off the field.

It's so perfect, it hurts.

Read more: Kovacevic: Perfect compromise for Clemente - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Kovacevic: Perfect compromise for Clemente - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
 
According to the article, it would go like this:

>> The main objection generally raised against retiring No. 21 is that Robinson's distinction should remain unique. As Robinson's daughter, Sharon, said five years ago, it would be "diluting the original purpose" to do likewise for anyone else. But the Clementes' Plan B would not replicate Robinson's honor or any other. No. 21 would not be retired universally, just selectively.

>> As Vera Clemente pointed out, a player still could wear No. 21 for the right reason, preserving a tradition of honoring the number at all levels. "Many kids, especially in Latin America, have the dream to grow up and wear it. This way they can," she said. This season alone, 17 players in the majors have worn No. 21. Be sure that they aren't all honoring Clemente.

>> It's an elegant tie-in with the Roberto Clemente Award, an honor that has become so prominent that MLB now annually celebrates Roberto Clemente Day in every ballpark to present it. Just as Clemente had to earn his way into acceptance, so will these players have to follow in his footsteps, whether the plan involves the winners for all 30 teams or the national winner selected at the end
 
Personally I don't think any number should be retired across baseball, just for the teams the person played for. Otherwise there will be no numbers left.
 
Personally I don't think any number should be retired across baseball, just for the teams the person played for. Otherwise there will be no numbers left.

I can see your point. But there are 101 numbers you can use...(yes #0 and #00 are considered uniform numbers), 2 will not kill the majors. And besides, for #21, it's only not really a retired number per say.
 
Another issue, By the time Calmente got to the major leagues, the color barrier had already been broken for 8 years (in 1947) and there were plenty of players of color in the league. While he faced discrimination, it was no where on the level that Robinson had faced, no was it any different than any other minority player that entered the league in 1955.

What's next, will Masanori Murakami's number 10 be retired since he was the first asian player in 1964?
How about the first Dominican? First Mexican? First Canadian? First Indian? First etc...

Sorry, but Robinson is the one that broke the color barrier, not any of the ones that followed.
 
I can see your point. But there are 101 numbers you can use...(yes #0 and #00 are considered uniform numbers), 2 will not kill the majors. And besides, for #21, it's only not really a retired number per say.

But it won't stop at 2.

BTW I don't think the honor is being considered for Clemente because of breaking the color barrier but instead because of his accomplishments and the way he died. Still though once this starts it tends to snowball. After all the Robinson situation was supposed to be a singular honor and I think it should remain that way----but I havea LOT of respect for Clemente.
 
But it won't stop at 2.

BTW I don't think the honor is being considered for Clemente because of breaking the color barrier but instead because of his accomplishments and the way he died. Still though once this starts it tends to snowball. After all the Robinson situation was supposed to be a singular honor and I think it should remain that way----but I havea LOT of respect for Clemente.
If it's just for accomplishments, lots of other players have done lots of stuff in history as well (I grew up in Georgia and saw all the reports of the stuff Hank Aaron has done for the community), which would make it definately not stop at 2.

And as a fellow Marine, I have the upmost respect for Clemente.
 
I too don't think any numbers should be permanently retired around baseball. But if they do choose to retire numbers they should limit it to just the few whom had a great positive impact both inside and outside the game, and Clemente is one of them. This will be nearly impossible as someone can make a case for many players just as deserving. I can see this going down a road to where just about every number of every great player will be retired.

I also don't want to see this become a PC issue either or an action simply based on race and nationality
 
If it's just for accomplishments, lots of other players have done lots of stuff in history as well (I grew up in Georgia and saw all the reports of the stuff Hank Aaron has done for the community), which would make it definately not stop at 2.

And as a fellow Marine, I have the upmost respect for Clemente.
Exactly. I can name many player in the mold of Clement, Robinson, Aaron, ex. I just worry that this will slowly go down the road of justifying pretty much all HOF players whom did a lot for the community
 
Interesting thoughts/comments. But remember, this is not fully retiring the number. And though Jackie DID break the color barrier, the Majors was in no way still openly admitting black ball players.....ESPECIALLY those black ball players that had a terrible time with the language barrier. I can TOTALLY understand not wanting to make it a PC issue, but I think in this case, where the number is not being "completely" retired...it makes sense.
 
cybok0 said:
At least my team already retired his number. :D

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The Great One is why I am a baseball fan today, and probably the biggest Pirate fan that has no ties to the Burgh. :)
 
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Dying exactly the way he did, when he did, did wonders for his "legend". Except for the batting titles, his numbers don't differ much from Vada Pinson's.

In the all-star game thread here, someone suggested that surely, Clemente would not have considered skipping the all-star game, but he typically missed more games due to nagging, nuisance type injuries than any all-star outfielder of his era. I saw him as his generation's JD Drew.

The prevailing "discrimination" incurred by non-white players of his era was simply that the fans tended to ignore them.
 
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...The prevailing "discrimination" incurred by non-white players of his era was simply that the fans tended to ignore them.
So did the "whites only" hotels in Florida during spring training.

From the start of his career, Clemente faced a double barrel of discrimination as a Spanish-speaking black man, and constantly raged against the inequities he faced. During Florida spring training for his first seven years with the Pirates, he was forced to live with a black family in the Dunbar Heights section of Fort Myers while his white teammates enjoyed hotel rooms downtown. When the team held its annual spring golf outing at the local country club, Clemente and his few black teammates were not invited. He found it humiliating to have to stay on the team bus while his white teammates stopped at roadside restaurants on Grapefruit League road trips, and finally forced the Pirates' management to let the black players travel in their own station wagon. Enduring spring training, he once said, was like being in prison.
The Last Hero
 
So did the "whites only" hotels in Florida during spring training.

I remember that the local Elks Club where the Red Sox trained (Winter Haven? Sarasota?) used to send temporary membership cards to all the white balllayers, and one year they all put them in Tommy Harper's locker.
 
Puhleezzzze!!.........That's like comparing John Lackey to Nolan Ryan!! :eek:

J.D. Drew couldn't carry Roberto Clemente's jock!!

LMAO!! I saw his comments last night and I wanted cry in laughter histerically! The ONLY reason I didn't comment was because it also pissed me off. I SAW Clemente play in his LATE years and as a 37 year old he can out play ALOT of outfielders playing now. I know JD Drew him being a FSU alumni....and he ain't no Roberto Clemente.

The problem is ALOT fo folks tend to repeat what alot of perception was of him by what they read in books.
 

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