Price fixing? No Chinese players allowed

[JoeSp]

Rewind back a few years. Substitute '"Japan" for "China" in your post. Aren't all BD players made in Japan? Maybe not every last one of the things, but I would guess that the great majority are. At least designed there.

I agree that in certain products, China is not up to snuff. In others they are not terribly bad. I would not give a cold-shoulder to a product simply because it says "Made in China". I would research it for quality as best I could, because things can be iffy, but I wouldn't rule it out ONLY because of it manufacturing location. Given similarly priced products from Japan and China, I would probably choose Japan at this time. But we're not talking about "similarly priced products". Thus an individual product evaluation of quality needs to be made.

All of this is nice to discuss, but irrelevant to the topic as originally posted. The BluRay group can do whatever they want with their business model. It's their product. If they want to try to stop Chinese manufacture, more power to them.

You have to go back to the 1950's and 1960's for this to apply. And the differance was that the Japanese started to make things alot smaller for less money. Cost me $19.99 for a pocket size radio to listen to the World Series in 1964 (Had to cut 6 lawns for that much money back then) and the nice thing was you got a earplug with the radio so that you could listen while in class. The radio was near indistructible and yes by the 1970's Japan had moved on to other products, Tvs, cars, music equipement and they learned from the 1950's and started making very good products. There was always improvement in what Japan was manufacturing but that is not happening with Chinese products. As a matter of fact, the quality of the product goes down the longer they manufacture the product.

As for researching a product, I bought my wife a new rice cooker two years ago for XMAS. While researching the product I found a little article about rice cookers and guess what, the same cooker made in Japan is also manufactured in China. However, the Chinese model did not hold up and was constantly being returned to the manufacturer for replacement. As both products were identicle in the manufacturing process except for a little isignia on the bottom that let the buyer know that the product was made in Japan. The article suggested only two places in the US to purchase the Japanese rice cooker from. All the others including major retailers where Chinese. What do you think that was about? BTW - both retailers were Japanese!

As to all BD players being made in Japan, are you forgeting the Koreans, the Germans and can someone tell me where Denons are manufactured?

 

[NightRyder]

You have to go back to the 1950's and 1960's for this to apply. And the differance was that the Japanese started to make things alot smaller for less money. Cost me $19.99 for a pocket size radio to listen to the World Series in 1964 (Had to cut 6 lawns for that much money back then) and the nice thing was you got a earplug with the radio so that you could listen while in class. The radio was near indistructible and yes by the 1970's Japan had moved on to other products, Tvs, cars, music equipement and they learned from the 1950's and started making very good products. There was always improvement in what Japan was manufacturing but that is not happening with Chinese products. As a matter of fact, the quality of the product goes down the longer they manufacture the product.

As for researching a product, I bought my wife a new rice cooker two years ago for XMAS. While researching the product I found a little article about rice cookers and guess what, the same cooker made in Japan is also manufactured in China. However, the Chinese model did not hold up and was constantly being returned to the manufacturer for replacement. As both products were identicle in the manufacturing process except for a little isignia on the bottom that let the buyer know that the product was made in Japan. The article suggested only two places in the US to purchase the Japanese rice cooker from. All the others including major retailers where Chinese. What do you think that was about? BTW - both retailers were Japanese!

As to all BD players being made in Japan, are you forgeting the Koreans, the Germans and can someone tell me where Denons are manufactured?

Denon is Japanese.

NightRyder

 

[haertig]

As to all BD players being made in Japan, are you forgeting the Koreans...

You are correct. I forgot about Korea. However, I can remember times when ALL these labels were considered "bad": Made in Japan, Made in Taiwan, Made in Korea. Now Made in China has joined the group. I agree, on average, that Made in China and Made in Taiwan are at the bottom of the quality stack right now. The others used to be on the bottom too, but not so much these days.

I think that the WalMart mentality and how they drive business has a lot to do with the "We want it Made in <bottom_of_the_heap>" thinking. "Bought at WalMart" and "Made in China" both have similar risks. You CAN but decent stuff at WalMart, but you better research and know what you're looking at and not just pick something up randomly off the shelf. Just like Made in China.

 

[diogen]

As a matter of fact, the quality of the product goes down the longer they manufacture the product.

Your claim that only 10% of Chinese have TVs was order of magnitude smarter than this statement...

China ignores copyright. Everybody knows that.
The world of creative advertising » The Chinese fully ignore copyrights
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/business/worldbusiness/18iphone.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
But every country had such history, US included. Nobody wants to talk about it.
So China made the best out of this situation: first they get the "developed" countries hooked on sub-$100 DVD players
(just as an example) and then stop paying royalties. Don't like it - we won't sell it to you.
If I were Chinese I'd exactly the same. Who gives a f*ck whether it violates somebody's laws. It doesn't violate theirs...

You think you can make a population of 1+billion jump on your command? Think again...

Diogen.

UPDATE: The latest update on the list of the worst IP offenders (from US point of view)
Worst IP offenders: China, Russia, and... Canada?

Lots of "angry" and "furious" responses from Israel, Canada and the likes. China couldn't care less...

 

[k4106]

All of the Samsung BD player rear panels I have ever seen say "Made in China"

 

[dlsnyder]

Don't think that the Chinese don't already have the technology to build BD players. If Chinese manufacturers can find a way to get around the licensing fees or go through a third party those less-expensive models will come soon. Some of the components are still pretty expensive to make, most notably the blue laser diode.

 

[JoeSp]

Diogen, what part of quality control on any manufactured product in China do you work with? My company does warranty for 37 manufacturers of product and every one of them has gone to China to save money on manufacturing. And everyone of them has seen their warranty repairs double, triple even quadrouple from Chinese manufacturing. Once they go by the double pricepoint they start losing money on that particular tool. The manufacturers complain, the retailers complain, the customers complain -- and my company and others in the same business get to fix the junk! My experiance deals with 25 years of watching this whole China experiment go downhill.

Yes, the Chinese can make any product they want , pretty much cheaper then anyone else. They can flood the market and destroy markets in other countries (The USA is not the only country to have been smacked by China's cheap labor and poor quality control over product manufacturing). The only way to strike back is to not buy Chinese. Problem is everyone eventually gets to China for manufacturing and then their products quality starts heading downhill.

I have never been an isolationist nor in favor of such a policy, but I see too many of my fellow Americans losing jobs over this. If China wants to dump $100 BD players on the market nobody can stop them except the consumer. And I guess if the consumer wants cheap -- then cheap is what they will get.

 

[diogen]

I hate to break it to you, our local business expert, but this is what is called capitalism, you know.
The very fact it is done is proof it is profitable. And profit is everything, remember?

When Dell started losing business customers due to support run from India, they quickly brought it back.

The only way to strike back is to not buy Chinese.

And what is the chance for this to happen? Remember 9/11?
There were serious (and I mean serious) calls to be patriotic and not let the market collapse. Did those call help?

If China wants to dump $100 BD players on the market nobody can stop them except the consumer.

BS. China doesn't have the know-how and licenses to do BD. And probably won't for a year or so.
Time will tell whether this will be good for BD...

Diogen.

 

[JoeSp]

BS. China doesn't have the know-how and licenses to do BD. And probably won't for a year or so.
Time will tell whether this will be good for BD...

Diogen.

I think the Chinese are well capable of back-engineering a BD player and putting one on the market. I believe that the PS3 is being manufactured in China now and that gives them access to a BD product. There might even be other manufacturers who are have the Chinese manufacture their BD players for them now. And I don't believe that the Chinese really care about licenses.

A particular product, the Stanley Bostitch MIII FS is being made in China. About 3 years ago knockoffs started showing up in Canada and Mexico and gradually filtered into the US. These products parts for the most part are interchagable with the MIII. Bostitch has been in courts all over this planet trying to stop these rip off products -- and to no avail. Last time I talked to someone in the company he told me he did not believe that they would ever be able to get these knockoffs out of the market.

Once they start manufacturing a product for a company they will copy the product and make very minor changes and start making a knockoff within a year or two. And there is really nothing anybody can do about it. And as I said, people want cheap they can get it from China -- but it will cost them in the end.

 

[diogen]

I think the Chinese are well capable of back-engineering a BD player and putting one on the market.

You don't get it. It's not about reverse-engineering...
There are 3-4 blue laser diode, OPU, DSPs, SOC manufacturers in the world right now. All of them top brands.
They all want their investments back, i.e. no Chinese company gets a license. Period.

Reverse-engineering takes time, money and brains. China doesn't have it and doesn't need it.
In a year or two - if Blu-ray still matters - Western companies will ask China to jump in.

In the mean time, Sony & Co. will pray the world doesn't turn its back to BD while they bitch about Chinese IP violations and keep prices high...

Diogen.