point well taken Bob, And I agree with it completely... If I had been on a time line or had a deadline I would not have risked the schedule with my lack of ability, knowledge or tools... In this case...I had no time pressure... have the time...and enjoy the sense of accomplishment of figuring it out and seeing it happen as a result of my own effort... I'm not so determined as to hang on to the bitter end...and will most likely call an installer before assume its a bad lnb and involve a supplier... I like to know things...and I really have learned a ton through this process so far...and discover HD is AMAZING!!!! lol... my whole family thinks I'm a hero just for that... well I'm off to see the superbowl at a friends house (8' HD projection, D* and OTA theater seats way too many speakers in dolby now if the seahawks can just make it happen....