Questions about the new XiP Receivers?

[navychop]

So, in theory, I could dump my 622 onto an external drive, and move all my recordings to the 813? Awesome. Thanks for the advice!

I think most of us that have read what little is available on the XiP813 would agree there is a high likelihood that your ViP622 EHD will work with the XiP813, just as it works with the ViP722 & ViP722K & ViP 922, all of which are DVRs to begin with and have internal HDDs. The ViP211 is a different animal. It's EHD is not interchangeable because the ViP211 is not a DVR and does not have an internal HDD.

We will know more by year's end, or maybe CES in January.

 

[harshness]

Well since the bandwidth on the moca side is 10 streams wide, that would suggest 3 streams to a single 110 with PiP would be possible and that the 110 could do the PiP via streams and resize the streams to provide them on one video out ... the alternate is also possible, since the 813 has three tuners, *it* could do the PiP and send it out as one stream to the 110 ... the horsepower is there since the thing does support three full satellite tuners, and could support 1~2 Antenna fed usb dongled OTA modules. I would imagine the beef there would rest in the OTA module

Compositing, windowing and text overlay are some pretty serious tasks; arguably more powerful than a tunerless receiver. I can't think of any current standalone media player that can composite streams.

 

[theoak]

Could someone please help me figure out what my optimum configuration would be? Ideally, I would like a hub DVR, one that could access the programming I have saved on extension hard drives. I would like to also be able to watch live and recorded HD programming in at least two other rooms. Would I be better off with slinging or the XIP? Will the XIP be compatible with recordings saved off of a 622 to hard drives? Would a SlingBox or extender or whatever be able to send HD to multiple rooms? I only have (relatively) slow DSL, if that's a factor.

"Slinging" will give you remote access. So if that is important to you ... you may want to consider that.

Otherwise ... 813/110 gives you the option of having the 813 as a "hub" for all of your 110's. All 110 devices will be able to access the programming from the 813, including external hard drive. Also, if you go through an "internet hub device" (or whatever it is called), all devices (813, 110) would have access to the internet accordingly.

With that being said ... depending on your current setup ... it may be cheaper to just get another 211K if all you want is HD on another TV. The 211K can be had for $100 (-+). Mind you you will need to run satellite to it at a bear minimum. Also, access to an external hard drive from another 622/722/Whatever in your house would still be SD.

 

[gdodd12]

Not reading all these posts. Can someone send me a link with details on how this works? Is this similar to DTV's whole home setup?

 

[sethwell]

Not reading all these posts. Can someone send me a link with details on how this works? Is this similar to DTV's whole home setup?

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...ions-about-new-xip-receivers.html#post2529328

 

[dhageremtp]

Post #1, This is how it works:

Hey guys, sorry I have been busy in meetings the past few days and it's been non stop! I haven't had time to read through all the posts to get your questions about the new DISH Network XiP receiver line.

I have spent a few hours learning about the XiP so if you got a question about the XiP's (and only the XiP's please in this thread) then ask away and I will do my best to answer them over the next few days. (I say that because I have more meetings today and tonight and then I fly out of Denver at 6am and get back home to Connecticut at 6PM tomorrow night.)

Some questions I will answer is how did it work when I played with it? The answer is it didn't. The display was a mock up with non functioning systems. I have heard that the hardware was real but the software was not ready to display as of yet.

When will it be out? Echostar is working to get the box to DISH Network by November, when DISH Network gets the box out the door is anyone's guess. Personally I wouldnt be surprised if we did not see it until next year.

How is it wired? It uses standard coax, the cable going to the XiP110 can be any pre-existing cable in your house, RG59 or RG6.

Is it HD to all rooms? Yes it is. Full HD with all the features you would expect on a DISH DVR.

Does it have an over the air TV tuner built in? No it does not nor does it use an OTA tuning cartridge like a 722k / 922. Instead you will be able to add OTA by inserting a USB OTA Tuner in any of the XiP receivers on your networks. (And that tuner will be shared with all the XiP devices on your network automatically.)

What version of MoCA is the XiP Series running? Yesterday I posted incorrectly that the XiP receivers are using the new MoCA 2.0 technology, this is incorrect and are using MoCA 1.0. MoCA 2 chipsets have not been released yet.

So there we go something to get you started... again I will try to answer your questions when I have time.

Thank you for being SatelliteGuys and I hope you enjoyed our coverage of the 2011 Team Summit event!

 

[TG2]

Compositing, windowing and text overlay are some pretty serious tasks; arguably more powerful than a tunerless receiver. I can't think of any current standalone media player that can composite streams.

(URL's open in new window) http://tinyurl.com/ati-rad-5145
Specifications from the 5100 series (5100 is pretty old)

• 2nd generation Unified Video Decoder (UVD 2)
  • Enabling hardware decode acceleration of H.264, VC-1 and MPEG-2
  • Dual stream (HD + SD) playback (or Picture-in-picture)
• Hardware MPEG-1 and DivX video decode acceleration
  • Motion compensation and IDCT
• ATI Avivo Video Post Processor1
  • Enhanced DVD up-conversion to HD

http://tinyurl.com/ati-rad-5450

• ATI Eyefinity multi-display technology17,1
  • Three independent display controllers
    • Drive up to three displays simultaneously with independent resolutions, refresh rates, color controls, and video overlays
  • Display grouping
    • Combine multiple displays to behave like a single large display
• ATI Stream acceleration technology
  • OpenCL Support4
  • DirectCompute 11
  • Accelerated video encoding, transcoding, and upscaling2,5
    • Native support for common video encoding instructions

and at NewEgg, a full video card, including a 5450 (which is the bottom of the 5000 series, and is not even current technology) ... is about 34 dollars (19 after rebate) so the Video chip itself is probably on the order of 10 bucks? if that..?

so.. if a 10 chip can do it .. and ATI's chips aren't so unique that no one else's could do it .. then you can bet its cheap enough to be in a Dish 110 ...

I can get a wireless router with two ethernet ports and able to run DD-WRT (ie. linux embedded, 8 megs flash, 16 to 32 megs ram) for 25 bucks *retail* ... I can get a video card 20 dollars *retail* you would think Dish/Echostar would pay less .... and with the resources they use for *new* technologies (ie. as opposed to later requiring support) ... that dish would probably get them at a much lower price..

So.. the hardware exists, has existed for far longer than anyone realizes, and has gotten much cheaper given time.

Anyway... until we get specs on chips used ... its just an academic pursuit.

 

[gdodd12]

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...ions-about-new-xip-receivers.html#post2529328

Thanks. Wasn't sure if there was more info, like if you can record separate things in each 110, and things like that.

 

[gdodd12]

The big thing about this is the true Muliroom viewing. But this is a product that is aimed at NEW CUSTOMERS.

I don't get this. Seems like it would be able to go to existing customers too. If everything connects through coax, how hard can the install be?

 

[TG2]

I don't get this. Seems like it would be able to go to existing customers too. If everything connects through coax, how hard can the install be?

and again.. lazy is as does... the "aimed at" is suggestive that when *new* customers come to Dish if they give a criteria that meshes up with what the 813 does (hd in 4 rooms, hd in 5 room.. etc) ... then the 813 may be what gets installed.

in *OTHER* cases ... just like as it is now... if a user wants a 922 ... they can *PAY* to get one ...

so.. the *most likely* case will be that if you already have your house installed ... that you'd have to pay an upgrade fee, and you'd have to renew your 2 year commitment .. or even longer if dish can force a customer to take it ...

(note, as to my "lazy" crack, let me be clear ... as you saw from the *ONE* link ... .it was a matter of at least reading the FIRST POST... but that was too much? I wouldn't expect someone to read 300 plus posts in threaded fashion, but not even the first? Yes I'd agree there could be a more conscise listing of features .. but that's what DishNetwork should have on its site .. and because they don't want to piss off every sod that still has dish, they aren't putting it up until they actually start shipping units.. and more likely they won't put the information up for a month or more after they start installing, and yes I'm one such sod unfortunately)

 

[JM42]

the "aimed at" is suggestive that when *new* customers come to Dish if they give a criteria that meshes up with what the 813 does (hd in 4 rooms, hd in 5 room.. etc) ... then the 813 may be what gets installed. in *OTHER* cases ... just like as it is now... if a user wants a 922 ... they can *PAY* to get one ...

Waiting a little for existing customers is probably a good idea anyway. To a new customer a non-fatal bug or shortcoming in the box is "just the way it works," where as existing customers may think "why the **** did I pay $$$$ for this when it doesn't do X or Y like my old 722."

 

[gdodd12]

and again.. lazy is as does... the "aimed at" is suggestive that when *new* customers come to Dish if they give a criteria that meshes up with what the 813 does (hd in 4 rooms, hd in 5 room.. etc) ... then the 813 may be what gets installed.

in *OTHER* cases ... just like as it is now... if a user wants a 922 ... they can *PAY* to get one ...

so.. the *most likely* case will be that if you already have your house installed ... that you'd have to pay an upgrade fee, and you'd have to renew your 2 year commitment .. or even longer if dish can force a customer to take it ...

(note, as to my "lazy" crack, let me be clear ... as you saw from the *ONE* link ... .it was a matter of at least reading the FIRST POST... but that was too much? I wouldn't expect someone to read 300 plus posts in threaded fashion, but not even the first? Yes I'd agree there could be a more conscise listing of features .. but that's what DishNetwork should have on its site .. and because they don't want to piss off every sod that still has dish, they aren't putting it up until they actually start shipping units.. and more likely they won't put the information up for a month or more after they start installing, and yes I'm one such sod unfortunately)

I *already* told you that I was asking for a place to get *MORE* data then the *first* post. I wasn't sure if there were links for *MORE* data. As in *data* in addition to *the* first post. ***

 

[Stargazer]

The 813 is a godsend mainly due to doing HD in three rooms over existing coax with one receiver. Dish does not charge an additional outlet fee for a 222/522/722 if it is the only receiver on the account. Dish charges a $20 fee for the 922 but is that only if it is an additional receiver on the account? What is Dish Network's fee for the 922 if it is the only receiver on the account? Maybe that will give us an idea of what they will charge someone that has the 813 as the only receiver on the account.

 

[356B]

Godsend.......Godsend........please.........

 

[John Kotches]

The big thing about this is the true Muliroom viewing. But this is a product that is aimed at NEW CUSTOMERS.

Its a product that a installer will be able to install in half the time as they can reuse the exisiting cable in the house instead of running RG6 to every TV in the house. Because all the tuners and hard drive are built into only the main unit it makes it cheep to add more rooms and also has a lower cost overall for the equipment.

I don't see this as being much harder for existing customers.

The switch comes in and you put the XP813 right off of the switch and move the old outputs to the rooms on the MoCA connectors and you are wired in.

The key is putting the 813 basically right at the switch.

 

[harshness]

So.. the hardware exists, has existed for far longer than anyone realizes, and has gotten much cheaper given time.

What you're talking about doesn't sound much like a media player. The point is to have a cheap client box, not a full-fledged media computer.

MoCA adds a substantial chunk of change right off the bat.

 

[Stargazer]

Godsend.......Godsend........please.........

Yes, if it works right. That's the big catch.

 

[TG2]

I don't see this as being much harder for existing customers.
The switch comes in and you put the XP813 right off of the switch and move the old outputs to the rooms on the MoCA connectors and you are wired in.
The key is putting the 813 basically right at the switch.

Not true. The 813 has only one cable attachment. I mean.. it shows from pictures and connectivity drawings, that both the IN **and** the OUT are through the *same* cable (channel stacking). So long as the lengths are correct, it won't matter if the 813 is right at the switch, or 100 feet from it.

In fact the pictures show the 813 has hdmi, tv1 output right on the box, hence it would go where the dual DVR sits normally ... and then you can feed a TV directly ... thus cutting down on the number of 110 modules you need.

For reference the 813's ass end.
http://www.satelliteguys.us/attachment.php?attachmentid=64896&d=1304659742
(damned it, no picture of an FCCID for the thing, otherwise we might get a more concrete idea for what's in there)

from this thread
http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/254534-scotts-team-summit-photo-dump.html
(yes, picture attachments in the first post; lazy) (& no, lazy isn't in re to you John, just a little poke at those who are inclined "that" way)

What you're talking about doesn't sound much like a media player. The point is to have a cheap client box, not a full-fledged media computer.
MoCA adds a substantial chunk of change right off the bat.

The point wasn't full fledged or not .. but that for less than 100 bucks you have enough common hardware to facilitate 80% of a 110 box ...

http://www.entropic.com/technology/dbssolutions.htm
Right side, DBS deployment with CSS ... that's the switch we've seen in the pictures with the 813's thread, the three chips floating next to the house are represented for the insides of the switch.. for the 813/110's.

http://www.entropic.com/technology/tvtuners.htm
Those (note the size on the right side, next to a dime)chips support dual outputs (analog & digital) ... the output appears to distribute the intermediate frequency (call it channel 3 or channel 4 as a concept) which the next stage then demodulates/deplexes/decrypts, and feeds into the ATI like video chip, which then goes out to the ports (hdmi & composite)

So a tuner smaller than a dime, a previous example of how compact the ethernet routing with embedded linux abilities, and previously linked to the video chip that *can* support mutiple monitors and overlays (picture in picture is really an overlay of two channels into one video output, old'en terms RAMDAC)

horsepower? I give you Numo
http://www.ncomputing.com/products-numo

Devices powered by Numo deliver a full PC experience and enable a complete redefinition of what a PC is. The $20 chip plus under $10 cost in parts can turn any device into a no-compromise multimedia PC running applications locally and across the cloud."

The point of numo.. 30 dollars buys the power to offload the video work ... the streams are from the 813, the entropic is the tuner, Numo is the processor or better yet (looking at Western Digital's WD Live ... you have a Sigma Media Processor inside http://www.sigmadesigns.com/media_processor_overview.php ... and with an HD Live selling for 70 bucks, you can bet the Sigma isn't 90% of that cost)


... and all of that is from an outside POV .. someone inside the industry? an Engineer? thats where you get the 110, that's where you get the Apple TV, the WD Live ... so it *can* be done, its not as much overhead any more as you'd believe. And since the cost of things like those IPTV boxes is under 100 bucks.. you can better believe the cost of making a 110 is pretty low ... its the R&D that would have to make costs higher.. so that Echostar recoups their investment faster ... but in playing the long game .. will not have to gouge customers that much. (ie, no 499 for a 722k, 699 for a 922, but 99 dollars for a 110? that's easily feasible, and would have plenty of horsepower to do PiP, single stream or dual stream PiP since the manual for the 110 says 4 per 813, even though MoCA shows room for 10 distinct channels - 176MHz bandwidth == 10x17.6MHz MPG4 streams)

Anyway.. all academic till we have something more to go on..

 

[Tyralak]

I'm anxious for this to come out. One 813 with two 110s would cover my needs. I could get rid of my 722k and 622. Living room, Master bedroom and office. I'd be quite happy with that setup.

 

[DishSubLA]

Sorry for asking (I'm sure this is the 100th time somebody has had this question): Any ETA on this thing?

During the last quarterly call, Clayton eluded to a new MRV equipment enhancing Dish's position "next year." In my mind that can only be a reference to the XiP. UHHG, was I really disappointed to hear him say "next year." But if it means it is ready for prime time on day one and does just about all it is promised to do, it would be worth it, I guess. But I want them NOW!!