Questions on converting to HD

[Mackskibum]

Hi gang. My first post and I hate it when the first one is asking for help, but here I go:

5-6 years ago I installed a DTV system myself consisting of the following:

Antenna with a single dual LNB
3 D12 receivers
Sonora Stacker sending signal to the 3 D12's
Sonora unstacker feeding R22/100 DVR
1 of the D12's spends some time as an RV unit and some time as a garage unit functioning as an SD setup

I have moved into the 21st century with a 60' flat screen and want to convert to HD on only a couple of outlets.

I have not had good luck with getting info from DirectTv- I think I will have better luck here.

Signal enters the house through 1 coax. There can be only 1 coax- it is buried- the dish is 150' from the house. Signal splits to the 3 inside locations. The worst has signal strength on 101 between 69 and 95- this is after unstacking at the R22. The rest are 85-97 across the transponder list.

Here is what I want to do and I need equipment suggestions:

2 units HD- I believe the R22 will handle 1. These are permanent installs.
1 unit SD permanent installs
1 unit SD RV/Garage install using existing SD dish.

Is this configuration possible with my setup? What is the best way to deal with the dish signal coming inside? What receivers do I need to add?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Jimbo]

Welcome to the site !

You bought a 60 Foot TV ?

Why not let D* handle this install ?

If so they will supply the new dish (Slimline 3/5, in your case a SWM SL3/5) as well as the coax and expertise.

SWM is Single wire Multiswitch to get all the signals to your recvrs with 1 line, as you requested.

 

[raoul5788]

Hi gang. My first post and I hate it when the first one is asking for help, but here I go:

5-6 years ago I installed a DTV system myself consisting of the following:

Antenna with a single dual LNB
3 D12 receivers
Sonora Stacker sending signal to the 3 D12's
Sonora unstacker feeding R22/100 DVR
1 of the D12's spends some time as an RV unit and some time as a garage unit functioning as an SD setup

I have moved into the 21st century with a 60' flat screen and want to convert to HD on only a couple of outlets.

I have not had good luck with getting info from DirectTv- I think I will have better luck here.

Signal enters the house through 1 coax. There can be only 1 coax- it is buried- the dish is 150' from the house. Signal splits to the 3 inside locations. The worst has signal strength on 101 between 69 and 95- this is after unstacking at the R22. The rest are 85-97 across the transponder list.

Here is what I want to do and I need equipment suggestions:

2 units HD- I believe the R22 will handle 1. These are permanent installs.
1 unit SD permanent installs
1 unit SD RV/Garage install using existing SD dish.

Is this configuration possible with my setup? What is the best way to deal with the dish signal coming inside? What receivers do I need to add?

Thanks for your help!

to Satelliteguys!

You can use the R22 as an hd dvr once you have hd service. The D12s will work fine as the sd receivers you want. Can the dish be moved closer? If not, it will have to be set up as a swm setup, since you only have one cable from the dish. 150' is pretty far, but I think swm will work at that distance. The real installers here will let you know about that. I think you will only need one new hd box, and it may as well be a dvr, since you are paying for the dvr service already. Directv may be willing to do all of the upgrade work for you at no charge, except you may have to pay a lease fee to get a new dvr. Maybe not, though!

 

[Mackskibum]

Thanks Jimbo- Meant 60"- missed the shift key.

I don't want D* to handle the install because mine will be "non-compliant" and they will want to charge a small fortune to do it. When I buried the cable, I used T10 for the 150' run and RG6 inside. I have had terrible luck with trying to get Sat TV installers to handle a non-standard installation.

I am trying to determine if I have to replace everything and start over or can I use some of what I have.

What I really need is a minimum equipment list- I can handle the install.

Thanks!

 

[raoul5788]

What is non compliant about your setup that you think Directv will have a problem with? What is T10? Is that a type of conduit?
Never mind about the T10, I figured it out!

 

[Mackskibum]

What is non compliant about your setup that you think Directv will have a problem with? What is T10? Is that a type of conduit?

Its the distance. The lecture I got when I was working to set this up the first time was a classic. T10 is industrial coax that cable and phone companies use- made for direct burial and can handle the longer distance runs like I have without signal/voltage loss.

 

[raoul5788]

I'm not familiar with T10 RG6, but I don't see how it's any different than regular RG6 as far as voltage or signal loss is concerned. RG11 is what is normally used for long runs. I don't see why Directv would have any problem with your setup the way it is.

 

[Jimbo]

Its the distance. The lecture I got when I was working to set this up the first time was a classic. T10 is industrial coax that cable and phone companies use- made for direct burial and can handle the longer distance runs like I have without signal/voltage loss.

Are you referring to RG11 or something different ?
RG11 is a heavier coax used for longer runs.

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

T10 is trunk line, not sure where in the hell you got that from, but assuming its bulkhead is a f pin you should be able to run a short jumper from your UG into the power inserted. And this line will probably carry voltage better than scc6. So that shouldn't be a problem. And to all the satellite techs on here, here's a "cable" lesson. T10 is an older form of trunk cable also known as hardline. I believe this has been replaced by q320 recently and 540+ gauges are more common now. This is the line running from telephone pole, to pole, between taps. This line not only runs minimal dbv loss/ft but also maintains voltage.

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[twizt3dsist3r]

While this setup is also extremely unconventional, I would love to get a look at it in person, seems like you really know your stuff. For your upgrade you will need a Swm3 dish, as well as a new pole mount using a 2.0" OD. The existing underground should work fine. Now its literally been well over 5yrs since I've seen or even read about stackers and unstackers, but the dem setup is very similiar to how a cable system work work. Dish lnb wired to red port of 28v power inserter, line from "to ird" wired to input of a centrally located swm approved 4way splitter. Replace the d12 on your new tv with a genie or hr34. Move the r22 to where you want the other he set to be. Once the genie is active, the hd from your r22 should kick in. I'm hopeing that all of you lines currently run to a central location, but if they don't post some pictures and I'm pretty sure I can explain what you will need.

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[Mackskibum]

T10 is trunk line, not sure where in the hell you got that from, but assuming its bulkhead is a f pin you should be able to run a short jumper from your UG into the power inserted. And this line will probably carry voltage better than scc6. So that shouldn't be a problem. And to all the satellite techs on here, here's a "cable" lesson. T10 is an older form of trunk cable also known as hardline. I believe this has been replaced by q320 recently and 540+ gauges are more common now. This is the line running from telephone pole, to pole, between taps. This line not only runs minimal dbv loss/ft but also maintains voltage.

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Let's just say I had some help acquiring this cable

 

[raoul5788]

So it's the cable itself, not the length of the run, that Directv would have an issue with. That makes sense.

 

[Mackskibum]

While this setup is also extremely unconventional, I would love to get a look at it in person, seems like you really know your stuff. For your upgrade you will need a Swm3 dish, as well as a new pole mount using a 2.0" OD. The existing underground should work fine. Now its literally been well over 5yrs since I've seen or even read about stackers and unstackers, but the dem setup is very similiar to how a cable system work work. Dish lnb wired to red port of 28v power inserter, line from "to ird" wired to input of a centrally located swm approved 4way splitter. Replace the d12 on your new tv with a genie or hr34. Move the r22 to where you want the other he set to be. Once the genie is active, the hd from your r22 should kick in. I'm hopeing that all of you lines currently run to a central location, but if they don't post some pictures and I'm pretty sure I can explain what you will need.

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Thanks- this is kind of what I was looking for. I spent a bunch of time researching this at the time of install- I bought the receivers/dish from directtv TOLD them I had only one line in, and they sent me standard hardware. That's how I ended up with the stacker setup to manage the DVR. So to confirm and ask a couple of more questions:

1. I need a SWM3 dish and pole mount. Am I going to need the newer 5 lnb when DTV makes changes to their HD lineup?
2. I need to replace one of my D12's with an HR34. Is there another option? I'm trying to get out of this project as inexpensively as possible. Do I also need the client for the other connections or is the D12 SWM capable?
3. I need a SWM approved splitter. I think I only need a 3 way- I will describe the install as best I can- I may not be able to exactly duplicate it with the new hardware- I may have leave the standard dish to handle my shop...

4. When HD is active, are all my SD channels still available on 101? (Asking so I can still use my portable)

Here's a shot at explaining the layout:

Dish is installed on a building that is 150' remote from the house- this was to eliminate signal loss from tree cover and to hide the install. I did not want this on a pole in the middle of the yard. RG6 from the LNB to the stacker, then an immediate T to grab my first receiver in the workshop. I then travel the 150' underground to connect to the existing cable network in the house. There is a central 4 way splitter in the house that takes the signal to each room. It is easy to make wiring changes- everything is in the open in the basement.

I think the receiver split early is an installation problem. What do you think?

Thanks again

 

[raoul5788]

The hd channels are on the 99 and 103 satellites, so you won't need anything else later. The sd channels are all on 101. Sd locals are on 119, so if yours are there, you need the 5 lnb, not the 3. The early split may be a problem. I'll leave that up to the real installers here. You will need a Directv approved splitter.

 

[texasbrit]

What's your zip code?

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

He stated earlier that he had a dual lnb which would be an 18" round dish, so it receives the 101 only. That is why i suggested the SL3. If you have a line of sight for 119, you can use a SL5 lnb, but it should not be necessary. There are other channels on 119 that you would get with your package, but most are religious, spanish, or music stations. There are other threads listing what channels come on 119. You can search to see if you are interested in this or not. I also suggested SL3 as it is less expensive than the SL5.

For the hr34, yes you can also get a hr24, but i would not get any older models than that, and while it is quite a bit more expensive an upgrade to pay for yourself, the quality and features of the hr34, and newer hr44 speak for themselves. Again feel free to search for threads explaining differences.

Another quality feature of the 34 is the ability to run an ethernet cord to it and power internet throughout your swm system. This will allow your r22 to access youtube, pandora, and on demand and such with an additional adapter. You can also install a cinema connection kit to do this if you wish.

I suggested the SWM 4way because there is no such product as a SWM 3way. This splitter works completly different from stackers. Its required, but ebay has these cheap as do retailers. When i get to a pc ill post links for all the parts for you.


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[twizt3dsist3r]

The D12s are swm capable so you only need to swap out 1 box. Now i got a bit confused with keeping the standard dish to run your shop. I do know generally how stackers and destackers work, but not as much as others. I do know enough to know there is no way to run swm and legacy signal over one line using a stacker.


---ignore this right now im rereading post, will edit in a second--

With that said, If i absolutely had to figure out a way to do this, and you had a spare 1000$ for commercial hardware, and wanted to build a storage or at least weatherized "shed" next to your dishes and have power run to it, i think i could do that, but im going to recommend against this as its all thoughts in my head "hmm i wonder if this would work, its not designed to do this but it might"

so i was hoping your shop was a line connecting to the house. Where is this line run to now? If you could take pictures of everything it would help.

----------------------
Ignore above for right now
----------------------

is there power outlets in this building the dish is mounted to, if so im going to change my suggestion to something more effecient, but you need a 110v outlet in that building.


If there is, then instead of getting a swm lnb... You want a regular ka/ku lnb with slim3 or slim5 see upper post on 3 vs 5. This will have 4 coax outs on it, and of course you need the slimline dish.

A swm8 multiswitch and 28v power inserter. You will then run 4 lines from the dish to the inputs of the swm8 multiswitch (which is different from an 8way splitter) the swm8 will have "legacy ports" on it, connect your shop box to one of these. There will be a port labeled swm, connect this to your trunk and continue the install as i previously described.

The swm8 must be "indoors" and requires power, hence the 110v question.

When i say "must" i mean "should" but its another item that i honestly do highly recommend.

Let me know what you think about this and if you have any other questions.

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[twizt3dsist3r]

Last edit, using my most recent suggestion, you may end up needing a swm amplifier on the line as well, but i think the trunk should handel it.

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[twizt3dsist3r]

Here is my professional schematic for your home



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[Jimbo]

T10 is trunk line, not sure where in the hell you got that from, but assuming its bulkhead is a f pin you should be able to run a short jumper from your UG into the power inserted. And this line will probably carry voltage better than scc6. So that shouldn't be a problem. And to all the satellite techs on here, here's a "cable" lesson. T10 is an older form of trunk cable also known as hardline. I believe this has been replaced by q320 recently and 540+ gauges are more common now. This is the line running from telephone pole, to pole, between taps. This line not only runs minimal dbv loss/ft but also maintains voltage.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2

????
I've been working on, placing / replacing phone cable for over 20 years and have never heard that before.