Realistic Look at the Future of HD

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woljr

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Jun 17, 2005
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Direct TV says they will have the capicity for hundreds of HD commercial HD channels in the near future. What content can we expect ??, At what COSTS ???
1. Sports - ESPN, ESPN2,: FB, BB, Etc. Available now for additional costs.
2. Sports -Major College Conferences to have own networks , COSTS?
3. Sports - Local HD coverage of sports in HD ; NY, Chi, Atl etc Costs ??? Available free OTA.
4. Sports - NBA, NFL have own networks. More costs.
5. Movies - National network cable stations showing old movies., Most of these have already exhausted their library of films. More costs associated for new movies.
6. Great majority of Old TV shows worthless for HD
7. Premium movie channels have one channel in HD and content selection is poor. Premium means more costs.
8. Networks appear to be the only source for quality original HD produced shows. These are already available for free OTA to a large segment of the viewing public. Networks show major sport events in HD that is free OTA.
9. PBS produces shows in HD in some areas on a full time basis OTA free already. May never be available on SAT. Excellent content on travel shows to demonstrate the advantages of HD.
It appears the future projected SAT costs will exceed any benefit received. "D" claims that it is too expensive to have HD because of the large bandwidth. If that is true haw about the expense of compensating the show's provider.
If you live anywhere close to a major city you should seriously investigate installing an antenna. With "D " all we are living on is promises with more projected costs.

The only hope we have is competition among the providers (SAT, Cable, OTA) to help hold down the costs.
 
charper1

charper1

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Not all of that is true/realistic, or any different than it is NOW with SD; and most of that is highly speculative toward the "panicy" side. Needless to say, MPEG4,digital and HD are the wave of the future for now and prices of anything rarely go down; there is no "falling sky" need to panic. Its all in the do course of everyday/every quarter business; and satellite, like cable, and many other things, is a luxury, that once the price gets too high for some people, they can always choose to opt out. IMHO!
 
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Jhon69

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Mar 19, 2006
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Do I believe in HD?I sure do in 5 years.E*and D* and cable don't have the bandwith that is the facts.It will be the people who have to have the latest and the greatest who will pave the way for us little people and for that I can only say
Thank you for your sacrifice.Just remember local channels are supported by local commercials. PBS is supported by viewer contributions so don't forget to give and
enjoy!
 
Jimbo

Jimbo

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Jhon69 said:
Do I believe in HD?I sure do in 5 years.E*and D* and cable don't have the bandwith that is the facts.It will be the people who have to have the latest and the greatest who will pave the way for us little people and for that I can only say
Thank you for your sacrifice.Just remember local channels are supported by local commercials. PBS is supported by viewer contributions so don't forget to give and
enjoy!

Jhon69,

Do you have anything HD RELATED ??? You probably do or you would not be here.
If so to are helping as you put it, Pave the Way.

charper1, I agree with most of what you said. the price of programming is more than likely going up, as it always does, eventually, although I don't think it is going up as much as cable.

Also, the price of HD TV's are dropping. Even the Hiogh end stuff that use to be 5-7000, is dropped to around 5,000 for the top level equipment...
Of course youCAN FIND higher priced equipment IF you so desire, but that is a choice everyone has to make ... there are more options available than there uase to be as well.

Jimbo
 
charper1

charper1

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Well my comments were solely relating to programming not hardware.
 
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GeorgeLV

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Oct 27, 2005
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Unless the networks limit local affialiates from selling their bandwidth, the future of OTA HD is extinction.
 
charper1

charper1

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Jimbos said:
Also, the price of HD TV's are dropping. Even the Hiogh end stuff that use to be 5-7000, is dropped to around 5,000 for the top level equipment...
Of course youCAN FIND higher priced equipment IF you so desire, but that is a choice everyone has to make ... there are more options available than there uase to be as well. Jimbo

And don't forget to mention, that $3500-$5000+ "top level" flat panel is what being pushed onto the consumers. There are FPTVs that are of equal and better quality and 2.5x the largest diagonal size for half that cost. FPTV is being hung/hidden by the sellers because it doesn't have the same profit margin for the seller and they continue to perpetuate all the "old day" myths; like them being highly expensive, needing huge spaces, and cave-like darkness. All untrue.
 
Jimbo

Jimbo

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GeorgeLV said:

Sorry, but I still don't know what you are getting at.

The 1st link you provided is for a sat service providing only 4 cities and surrounding areas

2nd link is for direct movie access

3rd link is for the Tube music channel, available on most digital sub channels.

Still don't know what this has to do with OTA being extinct, do you think because these sub channels are takingn up a small portion if locals bandwidth that the actual network will die..... The network need to flrish or there will be no sub channels.

I understand that with the added sub channels you lose a bit of bandwidth that should be applied to the local to improve the overall HD signal.

I don't think the locals are in any danger of becoming extinct, due to addl. programming

Jimbo
 
charper1

charper1

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Jimbos said:
Sorry, but I still don't know what you are getting at.

The 1st link you provided is for a sat service providing only 4 cities and surrounding areas

2nd link is for direct movie access

3rd link is for the Tube music channel, available on most digital sub channels.

Still don't know what this has to do with OTA being extinct, do you think because these sub channels are takingn up a small portion if locals bandwidth that the actual network will die..... The network need to flrish or there will be no sub channels.

I understand that with the added sub channels you lose a bit of bandwidth that should be applied to the local to improve the overall HD signal.

I don't think the locals are in any danger of becoming extinct, due to addl. programming

Jimbo

As far as the 1st link, USDTV, they are not satellite. They buy or lease the "extra" unused freq/bandwidth in a given DMA and retransmit those video services they provide to their paid users via OTA antennas, to their proprietary set-top box. I use the term "extra" very loosly. I can only assume that the other two do the same basic thing for their services.
 
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GeorgeLV

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Oct 27, 2005
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Jimbo, it's not a small portion of "extra" bandwith, it's ruining free OTA HDTV. Here are some bitrates in Las Vegas that AVSForum member vegggas gathered. ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6895834&&#post6895834 ) KFBT (now KVCW) is going to be the CW affialiate. The already HD-Lite KVWB (now KVMY) is adding the Tube.

KVBC-DT (2)
15.4Mbps 3-1 NBC HD
3.4Mbps 3-2 NBC Weather Plus

KVVU-DT (9)
15.2Mbps 5-1 Fox HD
3.2Mbps 5-2 Fox 5 24/7 Weather

KLAS-DT (7)
17.2Mbps 8-1 CBS HD

KLVX-DT (11)
9.1Mbps 10-1 PBS HD
4.1Mbps 10-2 SD simulcast (different programming)
3.4Mbps 10-4 Education? (right now a CCSD conference is on)

KTNV-DT (12)
14.7Mbps 13-1 ABC HD
4.2Mbps 13-2 SD simulcast

KINC-DT (16)
3.1Mbps 15-1 Univision
3.0Mbps 15-2 Telefutura
2.0Mbps 99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
1.7Mbps 99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
2.1Mbps 99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
2.6Mbps 99-8 USDTV (TLC)

KVWB-DT (22)
11.4Mbps 21-1 WB HD
3.5Mbps 99-10 USDTV (Lifetime)
2.4Mbps 99-50 USDTV (Starz!)

KFBT-DT (29)
4.2Mbps 33-1 Gold 33 (independent)
1.8Mbps 99-1 USDTV (USDTV Guide)
3.7Mbps 99-2 USDTV (ESPN)
4.4Mbps 99-3 USDTV (ESPN2)
2.0Mbps 99-6 USDTV (Food Network)
2.6Mbps 99-9 USDTV (HGTV)

KBLR-DT (40)
3.3Mbps 39-1 Telemundo
2.5Mbps 99-4 USDTV (Disney Channel)
1.6Mbps 99-5 USDTV (Toon Disney)
2.8Mbps 99-7 USDTV (Discovery Channel)
2.9Mbps 99-8 USDTV (TLC)
2.4Mbps 99-11 USDTV (Lifetime Movies Network)
3.0Mbps 99-12 USDTV (Fox News Channel)
 
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Jhon69

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 19, 2006
3,472
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Central San Joaquin Valley,CA.
Jimbos said:
Jhon69,

Do you have anything HD RELATED ??? You probably do or you would not be here.
If so to are helping as you put it, Pave the Way.

charper1, I agree with most of what you said. the price of programming is more than likely going up, as it always does, eventually, although I don't think it is going up as much as cable.

Also, the price of HD TV's are dropping. Even the Hiogh end stuff that use to be 5-7000, is dropped to around 5,000 for the top level equipment...
Of course youCAN FIND higher priced equipment IF you so desire, but that is a choice everyone has to make ... there are more options available than there uase to be as well.

Jimbo

Do I have HD? Not yet.Sorry didn't know it was a requirement to post on this thread.
 
colebert

colebert

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Jun 18, 2005
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GeorgeLV said:
Jimbo, it's not a small portion of "extra" bandwith, it's ruining free OTA HDTV. Here are some bitrates in Las Vegas that AVSForum member vegggas gathered. ( http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6895834&&#post6895834 ) KFBT (now KVCW) is going to be the CW affialiate. The already HD-Lite KVWB (now KVMY) is adding the Tube.

This argument simply does not take into account the transition from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 compression schemes. Eventually even OTA will be mpeg4, too.
 
Jimbo

Jimbo

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Jhon69 said:
Do I have HD? Not yet.Sorry didn't know it was a requirement to post on this thread.

charper1 is correct, that is not what I meant by my comment...

By all means join in. :)

charper1,
Thanks for informing me about the 3 links above, I am not interested in any of them, so when I did look into them before posting I just breezed across the info .


GeorgeLV, has a point with the lower bit rates, however I don't know that every station will drop their bit rates down under 10, in the beginning the 1st few are listed
CBS FOX and NBC are all at 15 mbs or better, I think that is plenty for a deceint HD signal.

I do not know what people want till they are happy with bit rates.... IF you had 30 mbs you would argue with the 15 they gave you ....

I argee with the lower bit rates listed are rediculus.

Where does the magic line stand ?
IF you see your stations bit rates up at 17 and then at 11 how often can you tell the difference.

How does 11 stack up against 17 if 17 decides to have 2-3 sub channels going and for that reason it drops the bit rate.

IF your picture looks great at 12 , can you be happy ? you have a great looking picture, but in the back of your mind it could be 20..........
where to draw the line.....

Just curious,
Normally on my set ESPN and the duce look damn good in HD,
What bit rates are they running ? For the games I am refering to....

Also , while we are looking at a REALISTIC look at the HD future.....

Who's to say that band width won't be 20-40mbs inthe not to distance future. What bandwidth numbers are these new companies coming out with, such as the ATT set up we are starting to hear about, some already have access.
It should be in Columbus, Ohio I would guess by the end of the year, I hope, from what I have heard.

Jimbo
 
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GeorgeLV

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Oct 27, 2005
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Why do Jimbo and Colebert seem to think ATSC will be obsolete any time soon? OTA will be mpeg2 at 19.2 mbps for decades. It's not cable or satellite where that can send out a new box every few years to keep up with the latest advances in technology, it's a government standard. Unless your local station produces a seperate HD feed and sends by fiber to the cable company, everbody is stuck with the OTA picture. The stations don't have to stop at HD-Lite, SD-Lite is perfectly acceptable with the FCC.
 
herdfan

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woljr said:
6. Great majority of Old TV shows worthless for HD
7. Premium movie channels have one channel in HD and content selection is poor. Premium means more costs.
6. Have you not seen Hogan's Heros on HDNet. Looks pretty !@#$ good if you ask me.

7. IMBW, but don't all the premiums have both an East and West feed of the HD channel? And didn't V* carry at least the HBO and SHO West feed. Yes it is the same thing 3 hours later, but I watch a lot on the West feeds.
 
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