RTN Problems

[Corrado]

Last night I didn't experience any drop outs at all using my 1 M Primestar dish and Pansat 9200. Signal about 60 and quality jumping all over.

I noticed channel changes are slow. Sometimes says "bad or scrambled channel" for a second before it locks in.

 

[tvropro]

The family that I gave the FTA system to a couple months ago are experiencing the same issue.. They're only using a 31" dish, so right now it seems to me that people with larger dishes seem to be OK, just because they've got a stronger signal to begin with, am I right? Or is it because a larger dish is able to better handle the 2 degree spacing of the birds? Have we ruled out AMC21 as being the cause of the interference?

A larger dish will have more gain and have a narrower beamwidth. With a lot of headroom like I get with my 12 foot on c band there could be all kind of problems happening to people with smaller dishes and I will never see it. I should strap a ku lnb to my 12 footer and forget about playing with the ku only dishes.

All in all when I designed my link budget for C band, I wanted cable tv headend performance and I get it. My ku dishes were all freebee's so I had no control in what I got. So I got what I payed for there. My original plans back in the day was to get a 6 foot solid motorized dish for ku. Although for one reason or another it never happened. If it did I don't know if I would have even known something was going on with RTN.

 

[tvropro]

Hey, who wants to call Gary on Unreliable Sources and tell him his network uplink is unreliable?

 

[Mr Tony]

The family that I gave the FTA system to a couple months ago are experiencing the same issue.. They're only using a 31" dish, so right now it seems to me that people with larger dishes seem to be OK, just because they've got a stronger signal to begin with, am I right? Or is it because a larger dish is able to better handle the 2 degree spacing of the birds? Have we ruled out AMC21 as being the cause of the interference?

I'm using a 30" dish and havent experienced these issues. Watched A-Team on WNGS for a while and quality stays at 72

 

[tvropro]

Anyone with a Spectrum Analyzer? or Analog receiver with ku.

If anyone has access to a spectrum analyzer could they check 125 w to see if anything is lit up on transponder 1,2 or 3. If so is there a sweep generator running on tr 1 that may be causing a pulsing burst of signal. I have seen this done before when they are doing testing setting up a new satellite. This is just a theory but this may be causing the problem messing with the BER on 11720 on 123w. I'm hoping this is the case and when testing ceases the problem with RTN will go away.

Another way to check would be using an analog receiver with a movable dish. Put the receiver on transponder 1 of 125 w and see if there is a bright flash in the picture every few seconds (there should be a pattern). BTW you can't use a 4dtv 922 or 920 receiver since it creates a flash every 3 seconds or so on snow because of it's internal sync generator for graphics.

Anyone up for the challenge with the tools? please report back your findings.

I have the talent but currently don't have the tools for checking ku

 

[Corrado]

My Uniden Ultra is still in use and connected. I'll try it tonight and see if I pick up anything strange on 125° analog Ku with it.

I never bothered with analog Ku before. Another good excuse to try something different.

 

[tvropro]

My Uniden Ultra is still in use and connected. I'll try it tonight and see if I pick up anything strange on 125° analog Ku with it.

I never bothered with analog Ku before. Another good excuse to try something different.

Cool.. Check channel 1 for any type of flashing in the snow. You can also check for a darkness in the snow. This means there's some signal there and though digital. I don't know if the ultra has a signal meter, my old 9900 back in the day had one. But if it does and a signal is present it will read higher than transponders with nothing there. Keep us updated, will crack this case wide open yet.

 

[Mr Tony]

tvropro

just tried it...put the dish on 125, set to V and turned on the analog box

its not bright pulses but the "fuzz" is brighter on a fair amount of the channels....1 being one of them...from 1-15 I say 10 have a brighter fuzz

tried H and 1 is still as bright as on V

 

[Mr Tony]

been watching Smackdown on KPBI (11720) now with no pixels at all. Coolsat shows steady 72
11800 fluxuates between 72 & 69

 

[Mr Tony]

Another way to check would be using an analog receiver with a movable dish. Put the receiver on transponder 1 of 125 w and see if there is a bright flash in the picture every few seconds (there should be a pattern). BTW you can't use a 4dtv 922 or 920 receiver since it creates a flash every 3 seconds or so on snow because of it's internal sync generator for graphics.

now i tried it again and got different results

with the dish set to V (Coolsat on PBS) the picture is really dark now on all channels
with the dish set to H (Montana PBS 12145 H) the picture is much brighter

 

[tvropro]

Ice what size dish are you using? I think some parts of the country are more prone to this than others.

From your findings there could be a signal there on channel 1. Do you get a higher signal on your signal meter on channel 1 than others? This would indicate something is definitely there.

I was thinking of swinging my 90cm P* to G 18 but I did a good site survey today and I say 70% is blocked on that bird by my house. I also noticed something else I put on White Springs and was getting the signal quality meter swinging from 75 to 0 every so often this afternoon just checked it still doing it. I have to wonder about that. 125 being the culprit it could be interfering with 129 too. Now the question is what the hell is 125 emitting that is causing this? Is it some data transmission or what? A spectrum analyzer could tell more. I hope that AMC 21 is still making adjustments to there pattern and eventually will tune it to not cause this interference. Otherwise their are going to be a lot of unhappy campers here that are going to have to upgrade to larger dishes to try to combat this in some parts of the country.

Man I wish I had access to a spectrum analyzer and a movable dish. I want to look at the 2 satellites and move the dish and see what is really going on. One thing that makes me mad is the dish Im using is suppose to be 2 degree spacing compliant.

 

[Mr Tony]

Ice what size dish are you using? I think some parts of the country are more prone to this than others.

76cm Winegard

From your findings there could be a signal there on channel 1. Do you get a higher signal on your signal meter on channel 1 than others? This would indicate something is definitely there.

no VCII box in the Toshiba TRX1420 so no meter
I dont think there is a signal there at least not here in Minnesota..like i say on Horizontal the "fuzz" is brighter than on V when I select channel 1...when I am on H channels 1-9 (all of them) are really bright

 

[tvropro]

76cm Winegard


no VCII box in the Toshiba TRX1420 so no meter
I dont think there is a signal there at least not here in Minnesota..like i say on Horizontal the "fuzz" is brighter than on V when I select channel 1...when I am on H channels 1-9 (all of them) are really bright

This is just too weird whats going on. Since I'm not he only one getting this I know its not my setup alone. In the morning 11720 RTN is fully watchable without any picture breakup, although there is still a dip in the meter but not as severe. If I could pinpoint the source then I could try some stuff with my dish like maybe skewing the feed a bit or moving the dish a tad away from 125 to see it it helps any.

Count your blessings Ice that a 76 cm dish is working perfect for you there. You must be at a null part of the country for this.

Davage has got an e-mail into Gary at RTN to see if they have any take on this. He hasn't got any reply yet though.

 

[gabshere]

you know i read this thread and haven't had any problems with any RTN channels on 123
but last night i did search through some channels and there was one channel that the sound did stammer or hickup every so often ( didn't seem to involve video or if it did i didn't notice it was ever so slight of a stammer or hickup). but other than that no problems watched normal programs on the other channels (RTN) with no problems. using a primestar 84e and in the center of the USA.

i'll check again and see if i notice which channel ( not at home tonight to where i can watch).

 

[Mr Tony]

This is just too weird whats going on. Since I'm not he only one getting this I know its not my setup alone. In the morning 11720 RTN is fully watchable without any picture breakup, although there is still a dip in the meter but not as severe. If I could pinpoint the source then I could try some stuff with my dish like maybe skewing the feed a bit or moving the dish a tad away from 125 to see it it helps any.

I have seen dips in the Visionsat on 11720 (between 70 & 83) but 11800 is steady (78-80) but nothing as bad as other people have said

Count your blessings Ice that a 76 cm dish is working perfect for you there. You must be at a null part of the country for this.

i don't know. Usually I have issues but 125 is nice and strong (all PBS is at 75 and Montana at 70-72) and 123 is at 72 solid on both 11720 & 11800

Davage has got an e-mail into Gary at RTN to see if they have any take on this. He hasn't got any reply yet though.

I sent one too...hopefully he responds

 

[donnyjaguar]

I'm glad I checked here first before climbing the ladder to tweak my apparatus.
Location here is N43 W79 and the symptoms the same on my Viewsat Ultra.

 

[tvropro]

May have solved my issue... I use an A/B/C High Isolation push button switch to change from G-18 to G-27 to AMC-4. I think I had some oxidation on the contacts. I started rocking the switches and I noticed that dip on G-18 became less severe. So I took the switch apart took some contact cleaner (the good old stuff with Freon TF) and cleaned all 3 switches in the unit. I put it back together and have been watching The A team on KFDF (11720) without breakup for almost an hour. My signal is bouncing (pansat meter) from 60 to 44 at the lowest. No more severe drops so far.

Now there may still be an issue with RTN that was aggravated by high resistance in my switch because of oxidation. And because my system wasn't running 100% it was showing up here. So My suggestion to everyone with this problem. Check all connections, alignment etc. Anything not up to snuff will cause this to show up more.

I will do some testing and see if the issue resurfaces during the day tomorrow. I hope not since I've been pulling out my hair the last week trying to figure what is going on.

Thank You Iceberg for testing 125 for me. Your input and WSTV causing me an issue too helped me come to the conclusion on what was dragging down my system.

 

[Mr Tony]

glad I could help and glad it was something simple

by the way my setups for testing
my motorized setup is just a KU LNB & a DBS LNB into a 4x4 multiswitch with one output to the motor to the CS5000....the other ports go to other boxes

The Visionsat has a 4x1 diseqc and a 4x4 multiswitch (119 & 123 on multiswitch) in the setup

 

[tvropro]

glad I could help and glad it was something simple

by the way my setups for testing
my motorized setup is just a KU LNB & a DBS LNB into a 4x4 multiswitch with one output to the motor to the CS5000....the other ports go to other boxes

The Visionsat has a 4x1 diseqc and a 4x4 multiswitch (119 & 123 on multiswitch) in the setup

Thank's Ice, I think 125 coming online is playing a bit of knockdown on 123 and thats why it started showing up once it lit up. I have WSTV on now and it too is solid as a rock. I got to say one thing about Satellite Guys we all work together to help each other out. Where else do you find such a great forum.

Wonder what else will turn up with the other guys that are having the same problem I was having? Here's a few pointers.....

LIST TO CHECK:

1) Connections, Coax
2) Switches/ Splitters
3) Alignment

 

[Mr Tony]

Thank's Ice, I think 125 coming online is playing a bit of knockdown on 123 and thats why it started showing up once it lit up. I have WSTV on now and it too is solid as a rock. I got to say one thing about Satellite Guys we all work together to help each other out. Where else do you find such a great forum.

just glad to help out. But you're right...we do come together to help everyone out

Wonder what else will turn up with the other guys that are having the same problem I was having? Here's a few pointers.....

LIST TO CHECK:

1) Connections, Coax
2) Switches/ Splitters
3) Alignment

connections is big especially if exposed to elements. I just changed some out a month or so ago that had been on the system for a couple years and had moisture issues. Put good compression connectors on them