SAT LIST CORRUPTION AND OTHER QUIRKY BEHAVIORS SOLVED

[AcWxRadar]

Some good news for AZBox owners.

Ever since I have owned my AZBox Premium and Premium Plus, I have had troubles with the satellite list becoming fouled on me. If I added a new satellite to my list, a previously properly setup satellite would suddenly be assigned another orbital position (such as changing 83.0°W AMC 9 to 101.0°W AMC 9), rendering it unusable. It would also not allow me to change this error to correct it and put the satellite back to its proper orbital position. It was as if it made it read-only. I would be required to delete the sat and then reenter it and rescan. This didn't only occur when adding a new satellite. It would do this if I tried to doctor the oribital position to fine tune a specific satellite or if I attempted to change my longitude setting to try to compensate for an error in the dish/motor azimuth setting when it slipped on me after an extremely windy period.

I also noticed that my satellite list had no order to it. They were not alphabetically ordered by name, nor were they numerically ordered by there orbital position. They weren't even ordered according to how I entered them when setting them up.

I also started noticing that some of my setup parameters were not responding to my commands (I was not able to change between wired and wireless or DHCP and STATIC IP modes).

This was all extremely frustrating.

After I performed the "Americanization" of my satellite list, problems still persisted. So, I suspected that the firmware file within the AZBox might have been corrupted, or not properly upgraded.

I performed a FORMAT APPLICATION ERROR using firmware 0.9.5020, then an update firmware via USB and then performed the procedure to "Americanize" my sat list once again. Once I did all of this in that order, all the quirks with the satellite list and setup parameters and options were resolved!

I recommend that you work with your new AZBox first to become acquainted in how to navigate the menus and set up satellites and your internet connections, etc. first.

Then, after you are familiar with the box, perform the procedures I mentioned above before getting too involved with creating a major satellite list. Follow the specific procedures outlined in the other posts and stickies related to loading new firmware and "North Americanizing" your sat list.

This is a great improvement! All my satellites are in numerical order according to their orbital position and they remain there! All the other "quirks" that I reported above are corrected, too. There were some other errors that I witnessed, but haven't mentioned here and haven't checked on yet since I performed these items. I will try to report on those if they are fixed, too, when I get time to check them.

RADAR

 

[GreatFTA]

It doesn't seem to be a problem with my Ultra, that has the latest firmware Rick installed when I bought it from him.
When I add a new satellite like AMC 21 at 125W, it did ok. I'm talking about with USAL.
I haven't tried to Americanize the satellites list yet, but I am planning to to do so soon.
I haven't tried adding other satellites yet to be certain, but I will let you know if the problems you mentioned does occur.
I wonder why it is that way with the Premium and Premium +?

 

[stargaze]

Radar,
I recommend that when re-doing your satellite list that you completely delete all but one satellite, then starting from 139*W working your way towards 5*W begin by adding one satellite then delete the last of the old ones from your list before adding more.
This completely removes all the settings from any old satellite in the receiver and you now have a fresh start.
At the end of the A to Z guide I created a satellite chart to help people so they would not miss any satellites when doing this.
When I first tried to N/A my list I used some of the satellites in the receiver and they eventually fouled up on me. Ever since I started from scratch I have not experienced any problems. Even when I was trying to change some channels pids manually on one transponder which the receiver did not like at all it did not foul anything up.
I even did things to purposely lock up the receiver to see what would happen and each time it came through fine.

 

[AcWxRadar]

StarGaze,

I was actually following the identical procedure (How to North Americanize the List), but things were going afoul on me when I tried to add a new sat or screw around with just about any item related to satellite positions.

Although I had upgraded the firmware properly all along the way, there was something parasitic remaining that was corrupting my list. Once I performed the format of the application area, it was like a totally different receiver!

So, the message that I am really trying to get across is, if your satellite list continues to go awry with errors like I mentioned in the OP, then there is probably something corrupt in the original file system. A format of the application area with the new firmware and then an upgrade (of that same firmware) has taken care of this problem and many others for me, personally.

In this case, I used the 0.9.5020 firmware image file.

I wish I had wrote down the firmware that it had in it when I first received it. I believe that that was my original problem from day #1. This is what I believe was not allowing me to keep my satellite list coherent and permanent. Now it is )knock on wood) perfect! Especially the fact that all the satellites are listed in numeric order according to their orbital position. That anomaly always frustrated me, even with my original Premium AZBox (the first Premium series). I am going to try to format the application area on that one using the 0.9.5020 firmware and see if it cures the problem there, too.

RADAR

 

[stanleyjohn]

I have done basically what stargaze has recommended!and so far so good.I am about 75% done with my new NA list and all is working well.I'm being very carefull when entering a new sat not to hit the enter button before all info is added.Great little receiver!the menu interface has you take a few more steps to get where you want to go than my solomend but i got used to it.If the lists ever go astray again i will try what radar suggests I'm not so good at writing stuff but maybe someone here can but together a simple what to do and not to do list for the ultra!This way a beginner knows right off the bat what to avoid for possible disaster.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Just a little history:

Quite a while ago, I went to the OpenSat suggestion and bug report site and registered a complaint about the problem I was detecting with 0.9.2880 firmware.

I tried nearly every firmware that they issued for the AZBox after then and never detected an improvement. I eventually just got to the point of "putting up with it" and never again attempted to perform the "format application area", until now.

Somewhere in between then and now, between (roughly) 0.9.4001 and 0.9.5020 firmware versions, they must have corrected this issue and I missed it! I stopped formatting the app area as it was just a waste of time for me. I had most all the sats I cared for in my list and they were stable. As long as I wasn't adding anything new or screwing around with the positions, I was fine.

Now, it appears that I can play around with my list as I believe I should be able to at any time and in any way and everything is just fine. I just feel really giddy now because of it! I am very happy with the new results that I have found. Like I stated in my earlier post, it is like a totally different receiver. It does exactly what I tell it to do and the results are exactly as I expect them to be.

No more unexpected snafus. Well, at least I hope not.

RADAR

 

[stargaze]

Stanley,
Remember that what Radar is talking about is an older receiver that has had an earlier firmware version, not one that has been out within the past year or two.
So what He is going through is an abnormal thing to have happen compared to the newer receivers. Not discounting any of what he is going through but I do not believe the newer factory installed firmware updates would all be corrupt.
Coupled with the fact that Radar has said in the past he does not turn off his receiver (I hope I have that right), and he may have tested out IPPV before which has been said by others to do things to some receivers.

On the other hand, I have been testing everything out on the last 2 firmware updates which are factory installed so I have not touched anything in this area as of yet.

It is very possible that the firmware that Radar had in his receiver did not handle the DiSEqc settings properly and this may have been addressed in the newer update he now has. I say maybe since I have no personal knowledge of this just things I have read about across the planet.

Each of us is using the receiver just a bit differently. So the settings in our receivers are not the same.
I believe Radar is using his receiver to move his dish so he has to pay particular attention to his DiSEqc settings. I am using 3 receivers as slaves
and running them through 4x1 switches so I have specific setting to make under the satellite setting here also. Without those settings being made there is no picture.
Some do not use this at all.

So what I am trying to say here is that what is working for Radar here may not be the same for others. Oh, it's great to know what is going on, but don't think at the first set-back you need to do a reformatting process.
This is a last resort thing when all else fails. Many times it is just plain user error that has caused the problems. It does not help that there was no real user manual for these receivers and it is a learn as you go process.

Up to the point where I had 3 receivers I really did not want to be guinea pig trying out the newest things for fear of damaging the receiver.
Now it is getting to more of a walk in the park as I have learned much more than I have ever thought I would about these boxes, and I've only scratched the surface.

I now understand why OpenSat frowns upon using someone else's satellite list. If you do not have the identical setup you will still have to make changes, and still have to use the proper programs to send them to the azbox, and yet there is not one single editor that can perform the entire editing task by itself. It can get quite mind boggling at times.

Some people who have had these receivers have giving up in disgust that it has not performed the way they wanted it to, this is why I try telling others to take your time if you want it done correctly. Others are not willing to make any changes then what the company does for them.
Radar & I on the other hand are of the same mind-set, we are not happy campers until we have exactly what we want doing the things we want the receiver to do.

The upside to all of this is that once you hit on what works great for your needs then sit back and enjoy what you purchased it for, watching satellite tv.

This is one of the main reasons the users guide was put together quickly, to help others better understand some of the azbox, it is not a know all about it just enough to get you going and help through issues that were encountered along the way, and this now frees up more time for some of us to watch more of what is out there....


**I was writing this as Radar posted his message directly above**

 

[stanleyjohn]

Thanks stargazer I am taking my time!thats why after a week my new sat list is not complete yet.I havent used this receiver yet on DiSEqC or USALs yet and may not for awhile!no problem here just letting the vbox do all the work.Still just having fun like a new toy.Take care all! Stan

 

[AcWxRadar]

StarGaze,

In the first bit of your post you assumed some things about my experiences with the AZBox that were not entirely correct. Just to set the record straight, I only use DiSEqC 1.2 for one satellite (30.0°W) as it is out of range for USALS and I have never used IPPV, I am not even sure wht it is! LOL

Regarding firmware versions and revisions, anyone could obtain a box that has been programmed with a much earlier firmware and just been sitting on the shelf waiting to be sold.

However, you sure have everything else nailed down to a tee!

I have been using my AZBox (Premium and now Premium Plus) as my primary receiver for quite a while now and I use it to drive my Ku band H-H motor using USALS (incorporating the PowerTech DG-380 motor with a 1.2M GeoSatPro dish and Invacom QPH-031 LNBF).

All my troubles with my sat list previously were not too terrible. They weren't desired and I wasn't satified with the status quo, but they weren't so bad that I would have ever given up on these AZBox receievers. They offered me too much pleasure in how they could perform overall. I could never have downgraded them on performance. Mine just happened to have some very annoying quirks, all of them so far. The same quirks existed for each of three boxes including the Premium Plus. Now I think that, and I am hoping that, I have truly fixed the problems, all of them, with one swoop. Please wish me luck that I am right.

The main thing that you are correct about is that you and I thinl alike in not being satified untill we have everything working and know all the ins and outs. That is one thing that we both desire and follow. We not only want to make this box function fully and correctly for ourlseves, but we want to learn it and explain it to others. The more of the "others' we recruit to the AZBox family, the more heads we have to figure things out! And correct the deficiencies.


RADAR

 

[stargaze]

Regarding firmware versions and revisions, anyone could obtain a box that has been programmed with a much earlier firmware and just been sitting on the shelf waiting to be sold.

That is why I try to use "could be" ; "maybe"; should, since there are so many unknowns with what is going on with this box.
We all need to remember that the N/A market was an afterthought for this company who made the receiver and not the intended target.

It used to be the Americans who had the ingenuity to make these things but anymore that is just no longer true.

I'm glad you finally sorted out the problem you were having, let's hope it never re-occurs.
I'm just surprised you did not upgrade the firmware sooner, after so many were saying how much better it was over some older firmware versions.
I could not say anything on this as I was late in coming into the az game.
I used to be first in trying out the new toys but now leave those days of headaches to others.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I'm just surprised you did not upgrade the firmware sooner, after so many were saying how much better it was over some older firmware versions.

StarGaze,

You are missing my point. As I WAS updating my firmware and testing them - each and every firmware release that was availabl, official versions or daily snapshots. What I was NOT doing was "FORMATTING THE APPLICATION AREA". This was the key in my particular issue.

It is normally recommended to reserve the "FORMAT APPLICATION AREA" procedure for severe failures. I had not regarded the symptoms I was experiencing as a "severe" failure. It was plenty annoying for certain, but not much more. However, finally with firmware 0.9.5020 or somewhere earlier, these problems were addressed. I just must have happened to skip over the formatting of the application area when the firmware version that addressed it was released and I hadn't done so until now.

I now believe that it is a good thing to do this every so often. Just to be certain the entire firmware's perks are being applied.

Please note, it is recommended to disconnect all HDDs other than the USB memory stick with the firmware on it before you format the app area. This is a safety practice.

RADAR

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

I performed a FORMAT APPLICATION ERROR using firmware 0.9.5020, then an update firmware via USB and then performed the procedure to "Americanize" my sat list once again. Once I did all of this in that order, all the quirks with the satellite list and setup parameters and options were resolved!

I found a "Format application area" option but not a "Format application error". Is that a typo? Anyway, I tried formatting the application area twice and it didn't resolve my problem. I even tried downloading the 5020 firmware again and got the same results. It would be nice if there was a "slam dunk" way to make this work.

 

[AcWxRadar]

I found a "Format application area" option but not a "Format application error". Is that a typo? Anyway, I tried formatting the application area twice and it didn't resolve my problem. I even tried downloading the 5020 firmware again and got the same results. It would be nice if there was a "slam dunk" way to make this work.

That is a mistake in my typing. "ERROR"? Where the heck did I get that? LOL!

JohnnyN, were you seeing the same problems with your satellite list that I described?

RADAR

 

[LocutusOfBorg]

That is a mistake in my typing. "ERROR"? Where the heck did I get that? LOL!

JohnnyN, were you seeing the same problems with your satellite list that I described?

RADAR

It looks like the same problems.

 

[stargaze]

StarGaze,

You are missing my point. As I WAS updating my firmware and testing them - each and every firmware release that was availabl, official versions or daily snapshots. What I was NOT doing was "FORMATTING THE APPLICATION AREA". This was the key in my particular issue.

It is normally recommended to reserve the "FORMAT APPLICATION AREA" procedure for severe failures. I had not regarded the symptoms I was experiencing as a "severe" failure.

ok now I see what your saying, remember I have not done that as I've never had the need to do this.
The biggest mistake I can see here is that others will try this even though they do not need to.
I was reading the other day where one person thought their receiver was toast from the factory and after a long period of time they discovered it was their error not the receivers.
Formatting the application area should only be done under extreme conditions when all else has been ruled out.
Human/operator error will only occur again if it is human error.
This is said not for you Radar but for those reading this who come after us.