Second TV from 722 fuzzy

[rhltechie]

Hi All,

Here is my situation, hopefully someone can help me out.

i originally started out with a 722 that controlled my main tv and a second tv...well i got a new second tv that was HD so i got another receiver, the 612 so i could have HD on the second tv. The setup to control a second tv was all left in place...two spliters behind the tv with the 722. I have a DPP44 outside. The guy took the diplexer but I purchased one that was rated for 2150 MHZ. I following the diagram found on the tech portal for dish network titled Distribution Example 9, which describes my setup almost completely. I did all of this because I have a kitchen tv that was using a standard SD receiver and I wanted it to be the second tv on the second tuner of the 722 instead of it having a receiver (reduced cost as well as being able to pause..etc). I have everything connected properly and its all working. only thing is, the picture on the second tv is fuzzy. I cannot figure out what is causing this. I have checked the connection at every point. I have changed out cables, they are all R6. The main tv is crystal clear, so I am at a loss. The tv was not fuzzy when it was connected to the standard SD receiver. Any ideas?

TIA,

mandy

 

[Agonizing Fury]

When you say fuzzy, do you mean actual noise in the picture, or just blurry? what kind of TV is in the kitchen? I have notice that the cheap small flat screens usually use very cheap tuners and look like crap as TV2. Also if it's an HDTV, or EDTV it will look blurry because it has to "make up" extra pixels not included in the image. Try running a wire straight from the Home distribution port on the receiver to the TV and see how it looks. If that fixes it, then you'll know it's something in the line between the receiver and TV2 (Bad diplexer/connector/cable/wall plate/etc). Best of luck to you, and let us know if you need more ideas of things to check.

 

[FitzAusTex]

Hi All,

Here is my situation, hopefully someone can help me out.

i originally started out with a 722 that controlled my main tv and a second tv...well i got a new second tv that was HD so i got another receiver, the 612 so i could have HD on the second tv. The setup to control a second tv was all left in place...two spliters behind the tv with the 722. I have a DPP44 outside. The guy took the diplexer but I purchased one that was rated for 2150 MHZ. I following the diagram found on the tech portal for dish network titled Distribution Example 9, which describes my setup almost completely. I did all of this because I have a kitchen tv that was using a standard SD receiver and I wanted it to be the second tv on the second tuner of the 722 instead of it having a receiver (reduced cost as well as being able to pause..etc). I have everything connected properly and its all working. only thing is, the picture on the second tv is fuzzy. I cannot figure out what is causing this. I have checked the connection at every point. I have changed out cables, they are all R6. The main tv is crystal clear, so I am at a loss. The tv was not fuzzy when it was connected to the standard SD receiver. Any ideas?

TIA,

mandy

I had a similar problem with one of my 2nd TVs that I rarely ever watched. I have two 622s both with SD TVs on TV2. One of my 2nd SD TVs looked great, and the other 2nd SD TV looked fairly 'fuzzy'. I checked the Modulator Setup (Menu->6->1->5) on the 2nd SD TV that looked good, and also on the 2nd SD TV that looked 'fuzzy', and they were not set the same, so I set the TV2 ouput up the same way and that fixed it.

The theory (I think) is that you may need to test out a TV2 output channel that has less interference. Make sure the Modulator Setup "Mode" for TV1 and TV2 outputs are set to "Air" and play around with the TV2 Out channel setting. You'll need to set your actual 2nd TV to Air (rather than Cable), and set the actual 2nd TV to an unused channel (not a channel that broadcasts locals in your area). For me, I have TV1 Out set to channel 53 and TV2 Out set to 51. PM me if you want to discuss further.

 

[harshness]

Mandy,

Could you restate your question in two sentences or less?

Specifically, which TV is "fuzzy" (the new HDTV or the kitchen SDTV)?

Were you expecting HD quality from the modulated signal?

Does your "second TV" have a signal strength feature?

Have you tried changing output channels for TV2?

 

[rhltechie]

ok, specifically the 2nd tv is the one that is fuzzy. when i say fuzzy, it's a snow look. kind of like if you were using an OTA and the signal wasnt coming in great. I was not expecting any HD quality on the 2nd tv, it is a VERY old small 13 inch SD tv that I just watch in the kitchen.

"Try running a wire straight from the Home distribution port on the receiver to the TV and see how it looks."

I did this and....no fuzz. grrr..not what i wanted to see. so next, i plugged a cable into the sat port of the splitter thats connected to the distribution port and connected it to the second tv and there was fuzz! so i then plugged the cable into the same splitter but on the other side where it says in/out and plugged that directly into the second tv and NO FUZZ! wth? That doesnt make any sense to me, if it were the splitter wouldnt it be the opposite?

I also havent tried to change the output channel...i will try this as well.


ok..and edit for more info. I tried the modulator setup suggested. The second tv will not work at all when set to air. channel 73-77 are the only ones that really work. This just seems to be a cable or splitter issue...just not sure which. i find it curious that the cable going to the 2nd tv yesterday never created this fuzz...which makes me think its something in the vicinity of the splitters behind the main tv.

 

[harshness]

I was not expecting any HD quality on the 2nd tv, it is a VERY old small 13 inch SD tv that I just watch in the kitchen.

In your OP, you referred to the new HDTV as the "second TV". That's why I asked specifically which one you were talking about.

so next, i plugged a cable into the sat port of the splitter thats connected to the distribution port and connected it to the second tv and there was fuzz! so i then plugged the cable into the same splitter but on the other side where it says in/out and plugged that directly into the second tv and NO FUZZ! wth? That doesnt make any sense to me, if it were the splitter wouldnt it be the opposite?

What you're fiddling with is a diplexer, not a splitter. That's probably why you're having trouble.

I also havent tried to change the output channel...i will try this as well.

This may help, but you'll need to figure out where the other diplexer is (they are used in pairs).

 

[rhltechie]

thanks for all of your replies...

"but you'll need to figure out where the other diplexer"

there are two behind the main tv with the 722...

"so next, i plugged a cable into the sat port of the splitter thats connected to the distribution port and connected it to the second tv and there was fuzz! so i then plugged the cable into the same splitter but on the other side where it says in/out and plugged that directly into the second tv and NO FUZZ! wth? That doesnt make any sense to me, if it were the splitter wouldnt it be the opposite?"

This was what I was fiddling with. I know there is a diplexer outside, but I have tested that one as well and its also brand new (I know they can be bad, but I have tested it and works fine).

My edit to the post said I did try some other channels...nothign else really gave a picture any better..most were worse.

 

[harshness]

As I alluded to in post #6, I suspect that you are using "diplexer" and "splitter" interchangeably (either in terminology or in deed). A splitter is not interchangeable with a diplexer and neither is interchangeable with a separator.

You cannot plug your distribution output into a SAT port on a diplexer and expect it to work.

There should only be one diplexer anywhere near the ViP722. Most ViP722 setups that have a diplexer have two devices that look suspiciously like splitters but aren't splitters. One should be labeled "diplexer" and the other should be labeled "separator".


The separator should be connected by two short cables to the SAT inputs on the ViP722. The diplexer should be on the dish side of the separator.


Acquaint yourself carefully with the function of each of the three terminal coax gizmos and make sure you use the correct terminology. Failure doesn't have to happen, but if you're careless with your terms, you'll find it most persistent.

Splitter: device for sending the same content multiple directions or combining multiple signals (at different frequencies) to a distribution system.

Separator: device used with DishPro equipment to send two satellite signals over one cable.

Diplexer: device used to combine OTA signals with satellite signals onto a single cable.

 

[KKlare]

To mix a cable and the RF output of the 722 you must have an n-way multiplexor used in reverse on one end. "n" could would be 2 with one addition to the cable and be for UHF and VHF. It will be marked input on one port and outputs on the n other ports and say 3.5 or so dB loss in to out.

A box coming with your 722 and with 2 short cables is a separator and is only used to feed the 2 tuners of the 722 and has no other use.

A box labeled Sat with DC pass on one side and TV or RF on the other is used only between the DPP44+antenna and a like box in reverse at the receiver and is not used to connect to a TV. The Sat side goes to the DPP44 on the dish side. The other one goes to the separator and RF input of the receiver. This can be and is preferably removed if you have two cables from the antenna and DPP44.

Mixing with a cable signal will result in problems if the channels have not been removed by the cable company including at least 1 channel on each side of the channels selected on your 722. With an antenna/OTA signal broadcasters should be below channel 60 (OTA). Some channels may be changing with the now-deferred transition. The cable channels in the 70's are typically used for certain premiums and may have been trapped out and thus somewhat useable. Again better to use a second cable to the TV if it has a second coax input or you are willing to use an A/B switch.

-Ken

Edit: Looks like Harshness had the same thoughts.

 

[rhltechie]

thank you for your replies.

There should only be one diplexer anywhere near the ViP722. Most ViP722 setups that have a diplexer have two devices that look suspiciously like splitters but aren't splitters. One should be labeled "diplexer" and the other should be labeled "separator"."

This is the case with my 722, i apologize. I do know the difference between a splitter, seperator and diplexer. I used the terms interchangebly and apparently confused many. Let me say this, the 722 setup was intially set to support a second tv off of the second tuner and was NEVER touched. I have not moved cables around in that setup at all and it worked fine when it was first set up with the old tv that i replaced ( and then got a 612 for). the only thing I have done is to place a diplexer outside where my dpp44 is located to get the signal to the tv I wanted to be the second tv as the technician that brought my 612 took it off as i wasnt using the 722 to output to a second tv anymore.

The only reason I did the plugging in of the distribution port to the second tv was to test as another poster described.

 

[Mokanic]

Just a suggestion if it hasn't been tried;

I had success in changing the output channel on the ViP receiver to a lower numbered channel such as 21. I was doing this for TV2 from my 622 until I put a 612 in the bedroom. I did the same for TV2 at my mom's house from her 222 . The picture was clearer in both cases when changing the output channel to a lower number.

David

 

[harshness]

I used the terms interchangebly and apparently confused many.

As you haven't provided a picture, the words are all we have to go on so it is in everyone's best interest to be painfully correct about the terminology.

the only thing I have done is to place a diplexer outside where my dpp44 is located to get the signal to the tv I wanted to be the second tv as the technician that brought my 612 took it off as i wasnt using the 722 to output to a second tv anymore.

I would ask again that you not use the term "second TV" anymore. I pointed out earlier that you have told us about two "second TVs". Instead, I would suggest that you use the term SDTV or TV2 for the one that is to get the distribution output signal. We can hopefully agree that the TV the ViP612 is connected to should never have been brought up (unless you want it to be available to the SDTV too).

I'm assuming that you simply replaced the old diplexer with a different diplexer. Did you make absolutely certain that it was installed correctly?

o The "in/out" port of the DPP44 diplexer should be connected via cable to the ViP722 diplexer "in/out" port. Connecting them in any other way will turn out badly.

o The SAT port of the diplexer should be connected to the DPP44 output.

o Finally, the ANT port of the DPP44 diplexer should be connected to the SDTV (TV2).

  TV2---\ANT          ANT/---ViP722 Distribution output
         \______________/
         /IN/OUT  IN/OUT\
        /                \
DPP44--/SAT            SAT\--ViP722 Separator input

As an aside, do you have a complex dish that requires the DPP44?

 

[Fredinva]

Just a suggestion if it hasn't been tried;

I had success in changing the output channel on the ViP receiver to a lower numbered channel such as 21. I was doing this for TV2 from my 622 until I put a 612 in the bedroom. I did the same for TV2 at my mom's house from her 222 . The picture was clearer in both cases when changing the output channel to a lower number.

David

Best Answer here !!!

The default for tv2 is air 60.
We change it to air 22 for all our installs !!!!!!!!

 

[Bradtothebone]

Best Answer here !!!

The default for tv2 is air 60.
We change it to air 22 for all our installs !!!!!!!!

This IS true, especially if your house wiring is RG-59 (as is most of mine). The lower channels have a much lower loss per ft than higher channels. (Channel 22 is 519 mhz, and channel 60 is 747 mhz.)

And Harshness' diagram is right-on. I once did a (rushed) hookup for a friend and couldn't figure out why we coudn't get a picture (only sound and snow) on TV-2. Turns out, I'm embarrassed to say, that I had hooked up the diplexer in reverse. It happens, especially if you're in a hurry.

Good Luck!

Brad

 

[rhltechie]

Hi All,

I'm assuming that you simply replaced the old diplexer with a different diplexer. Did you make absolutely certain that it was installed correctly?

o The "in/out" port of the DPP44 diplexer should be connected via cable to the ViP722 diplexer "in/out" port. Connecting them in any other way will turn out badly.

o The SAT port of the diplexer should be connected to the DPP44 output.

o Finally, the ANT port of the DPP44 diplexer should be connected to the SDTV (TV2).

I have it hooked up exactly like this. I actually had reversed the SAT and ANT cables on the diplexer connected to the DPP444 and of course...i got nothing but snow. i realized what i had done and made the change. now I get the picutre...its just..well...as I have stated..fuzzy!

As for the complexity of my system, I wouldnt call it seriously "complex" but when the technician came out to install my 612 he put it in. The power injector is connected to that system as well, on port 1 of the DPP444. I do have two dishes to be able to get HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mokanic
Just a suggestion if it hasn't been tried;

I had success in changing the output channel on the ViP receiver to a lower numbered channel such as 21. I was doing this for TV2 from my 622 until I put a 612 in the bedroom. I did the same for TV2 at my mom's house from her 222 . The picture was clearer in both cases when changing the output channel to a lower number.

David

Best Answer here !!!

The default for tv2 is air 60.
We change it to air 22 for all our installs !!!!!!!!

When I tried the "air" I couldnt get a picture anywhere...nothing at all. only with the cable setup in the modulator do I get a picture at all. all of my cabling is RG6 throughout the house if it matters.

 

[Fredinva]

If changing TV2 Modulation to Air, you also need to go into your tv menu and change the tv from cable to AIR

 

[bnewt]

Best Answer here !!!

The default for tv2 is air 60.
We change it to air 22 for all our installs !!!!!!!!

That may be great in your area.........but where I live, there are currently ota channels on 21 & 23, so it probably wouldn't be such a great idea to change here

 

[kb2vgp]

Reading all the posts here, I believe I have an idea of how your system is currently hooked up. Make sure the diplexer and seperator are connected properly behind the 722 (they probably are from what I've read). Next, following the cable from the tv in your kitchen, where does it travel? Does it go directly to your 722 receiver, or does it go somewhere else through the house? It is connected to the second diplexer on the dish end? There is probably something in the line somewhere between the kitchen and your 722 that is the source of your problem.

If the cable you are trying to connect to the kitchen tv travels through the wall it is entirely possible that there are other connections that are hidden which is causing the problem. Did your house have cable tv at some point in the past? There could be a distribution point somewhere that the signal is trying to pass through. If there is you would just need a barrel connector between those two cables. I'm just asking these questions to help you troubleshoot your problem.

These are some of the things I used to look for when I got snow on a tv2 in a house using exisiting wiring. Sometimes if I couldn't pinpoint the source of my problem, it was quicker as a tech just to run a new cable to the second diplexer or the receiver depending on the setup.

 

[kb2vgp]

Another thought that I just realized. You mentioned that you have a DPP44 switch in your system, where is the power inserter located? If it is on the same cable as your 722, that could be buring out our diplexers, especially if the diplexers are on the switch side of the power inserter.

 

[rhltechie]

Hi All,

If the cable you are trying to connect to the kitchen tv travels through the wall it is entirely possible that there are other connections that are hidden which is causing the problem. Did your house have cable tv at some point in the past? There could be a distribution point somewhere that the signal is trying to pass through. If there is you would just need a barrel connector between those two cables. I'm just asking these questions to help you troubleshoot your problem.

The cable to TV2 is a home run to the outside junction. Also, if this was the issue, I would have thought I would have noticed this before when I had TV connected to a standard receiver. There was no fuzz with that setup.

Another thought that I just realized. You mentioned that you have a DPP44 switch in your system, where is the power inserter located? If it is on the same cable as your 722, that could be buring out our diplexers, especially if the diplexers are on the switch side of the power inserter.

The power injector is located on the port where my 612 is connected, so thats not a problem.

If changing TV2 Modulation to Air, you also need to go into your tv menu and change the tv from cable to AIR

unfortunately, this tv is so old that I dont have those sorts of options.