Sky Angel Plans to Charge Lifelong Subscribers for "Special Secular" Channels

[WayneG]

These are Paul's words, "The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated?"

Amen! I think we should encourage Sky Angel to do what is right. I would suggest they drop the 4 secular channels (if contracts allow them to) and bring back 4 quality Christian channels. They could then drop their monthly subscription price and encourage subscribers who want the secular channels to get the Family package from Dish.

Whether they do it or not is not as important as being a witness to the world that we desire to follow our Lord's example and Paul's words above.

 

[lumpkin666]

ShaneLinder - the thing I struggle about is this... How can a business be considered a Christian? I can follow your argument when you apply it directly to a person, however SkyAngel is not a person. The business has no conscience and therefore no ability to profess itself Christian and have true Christian beliefs (okay people from within the company can declare that the company is Christian, but that doesn't make it so [obviously!]). A religous ministry may call itself Christian because it receives its authority to act as a ministry directly from the Divine Creator, yet a business has no such claim. Unless SkyAngel is it's own religion, or it is run directly by a church, I cannot see how it could rightly claim to be Christian. Sky Angel can operate under Christian values (although that is debatable), but that's the extent that a company can go.

Therefore, suing a company that claims to operate under Christian values in order to hold them to their obligations seems not only feasible, but necessary. For the same reasons that you've stated, we would not want to bring shame on the gospel by allowing a business to pretend to have Christian values, yet defraud the very Christians that it serves.

I do believe that there is merit in the argument that this whole "adventure" can be self-defeating if we allow the resentment towards SkyAngel to linger in our minds. Unortunately some are not at the point in their lives/spirituality to let this go and feel comfortable with it. I'm sure this is a purely human fault, which has been unjustly frustrated by the actions of SkyAngel. I would hope that SkyAngel would find a way to honor it's commitment so that this whole mess would go away.

 

[elder]

Remember that Paul was talking about people that answered to (and respected) the same authority in a local congregation. I could rationalize and say that since I have had SA ten years it computes to less than $30 per year so what's the big deal. But, how about all those others who may not even realize that they have any rights, those that don't have a computer or know about this forum? Those that SA doesn't pick up the tab for the four channels as offered to a few. Those that just bear it with a bad taste in their mouth. I feel that I have some responsibility to be an advocate for those who may not know what's going down.

 

[ShaneLinder]

How can a business be considered a Christian?

Whether or not a business can be considered Christian is a technical or legal question. From a spiritual perspective, we must be concerned with appearances.

An unmarried couple can profess to be Christians and live together, sleep in the same bed and even be seen shopping in lingerie stores together. Technically, if they are not actually have sex together, there is no sin. However the public is going to judge them and their religion on the perception of sin.

Similarly if a professed Christian sues a professed Christian company, like a Christian singer suing a Christian recording label, the public is going to perceive that it is a Christian suing a Christian and it will harm the gospel.

Personally, I am not so sure that companies cannot be Christian in a spiritual sense. I know that many companies pay 10% of their profits to a religious organization as a tithe. That certainly is an indication of something that sets them apart from most of corporate America. McKee Foods that makes Little Debbie snacks is one such company. JC Penny was another although I don't know if that is still their policy today.

 

[lumpkin666]

Good point(s) Shane. I'm less and less sure where I stand on this subject at times At this point, I still feel that there is reason to consider legal action when no other course of action corrects the misbehavior of business - otherwise every organization could claim to be Christian and get away with tons of unethical behavior.

I guess where I'm conflicted still is that in my religion, when the religious leader becomes aware of unethical or sinful behavior of one of it's member, it becomes necessary for the religious leader to step in and confront the offending party and "call them to repentance" (in a manner of speaking) and help plot a course of action for the offending party to correct their errors (or remove them from membership, if the party has no desire to discontinue the offense). One of the reasons that a person is "called to repentance", is that their actions are damaging to the gospel (as those sins or misdeeds are seen by all and reflect upon the gospel). Since there is no religious leader that has authority over SkyAngel in this capacity, there doesn't appear to be an appropriate internal resolution to the problem - thus the need for legal action. If the legal action is not taken, then SkyAngel will continue to reflect badly upon the gospel (and likely will feel free to continue to due further harm with more non-christian activity in the future, as is the nature of these things).

So do we allow a business that professes to be Christian to behave in a non-Christian manner, and harm our fellow Christians - in which manner we've allowed all of society to see what harm fellow Christans are willing to do to other Christians. Or do we hold them accountable through the only means available, and expose them as the non-Christian and unethical business that they really are - thereby showing society that Christians care for one another?

Please don't think I'm trying to argue with you on this point. I'm really just trying to think this through together. Maybe I should just quit thinkinga bout this for awhile since I really have no investment in the subject other than a mere curiosity.

 

[ShaneLinder]

The problem occurred when Sky Angel started broadcasting secular channels. That is when all the outrage and threats of law suits should have come about. I too am a lifetime subscriber. None of us thought we would get secular channels for free when we paid our lifetime subscription. The only complaint we have is that we are not getting 32 channels like we were promised.

Knowing that Sky Angel is having financial difficulties AND that they are trying to raise money to purchase their own satellite ought to make us a little sympathetic to the issue. If and when they get their own satellite, we are going to have a lot more than 32 channels.

Now we may ask ourselves why they added the secular channels which has caused this problem. The reason seems obvious. They couldn't get enough subscribers with the religious channels alone. If they hadn't added the secular channels, they might not even be in business now and there would be no company around to sue. Like it or not, those secular channels help Sky Angel draw in new subscribers which keeps them in business.

For a couple hundred dollars one can always purchase a Glory Star system and have plenty of Christian channels. I know some churches give these systems away to new converts. I would rather cut my ties completely with Sky Angel than drag them into a law suit that will bring shame upon us both.

 

[Wescopc]

Well said Shane,

No one could know how Sky Angel (SA) would work upfront. To raise money they sold lifetime subscriptions. I bought one, my father-in-law bought one, members of our church bought subscriptions. If every one had bought one - none of us would have SA today. They had to have monthly subscriptions to keep going.

When they couldn't attract as many monthly subs as they needed - they offered some secular channels. They had to let some of the Christian channels go to free up the needed bandwidth for the new channels. Then a year ago they lost a transponder and three religious channels. Their current license for the satellite is up in May of 2009. See: http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/International/Orders/1999/da990915.txt

If they can't get things figured out soon, I fear that it will be too late.

BTW I have helped many church members install a FTA system for free Christian broadcasting. I think all of this puts SA in a very untenable position.
Bob

 

[elder]

I have no idea how many lifetime subscribers there are, but let's assume the number is substantial or the secular channels wouldn't present a burden to SA. If the number is substantial then maybe a better approach for SA would have been to share openly what the future realistically holds for us then say, Hey guys we are in a bit of a spot could you make a onetime donation of say $100 to help us out of our dilemma?

 

[catkoko]

without lifetime there would be no SA

If lifetimers hadn't taken a chance on SA I do not believe they would exist today. We took a chance , not knowing if they would make it 12 months or 12 years.

However they did not just do this once in the beginning but several times over the years when they needed cash. Once again I will say poor planning, business as they did not figure in the long term cost of providing service to lifetimers. They only looked at the quick cash, not the longterm cost.

What will happen when their echostar contract is up? Will they go under? renew? Where will they get the cash to launch their own? if they do, will all subscribes need new equipment?

 

[Mr Tony]

moved al the IPTV talk to the other thread
http://www.satelliteguys.us/skyangel-forum/98549-skyangel-plans-move-iptv.html

 

[badabing227]

You guys keep saying that S/A did not honor, or left the LL members out in the cold. What is it that you feel that you didn't get that was promised to you? Read your agreement: FOR THE LIFE OF THE SATALITE, OR THE LIFE OF THE CUSTOMER...PERIOD!!! I know you are all frustrated, but be upset for the right reasons, not the wrong. It is unfortunate that the satalite is gone, but if you look at what you paid, and what you recieved, it was basically FREE programming! No one that had a LL got a bad deal. The average customer paid $399.00 and had the service for at least 6 years! If someone would have offered me my cellphone service for 6 years at $399.00 I would have jumped on it! Basically, a small group of people got great programming (exactly what was promised to them, no more, no less) and in return, S/A can now reach people that they otherwize couldn't with a satalite. They can now go into apartments where elderly poeple couldn't have a dish on their building. They can now go into nursing homes, hospitals, etc: So remember the true meaning of S/A, and quit being so greedy. You all got EXACTLY what was promised! I am a LL member and I am greatful for the service. The rest of you are in it for something FREE!

 

[Pepper]

The satellite is still there, so is the company. Not the customer's fault they decided to stop using the satellite.