So, I'm Looking at the FTC Website...

[SRW1000]

. . . and it certainly looks like there might be a case for a complaint against Dish calling their down-rezzed programming HD. I have also posted this on the AVS Forum (larger audience that isn't aimed only at Dish).
Here's an excerpt from this page:

How does the FTC determine if an ad is deceptive?
A typical inquiry follows these steps:
The FTC looks at the ad from the point of view of the "reasonable consumer" - the typical person looking at the ad. Rather than focusing on certain words, the FTC looks at the ad in context - words, phrases, and pictures -ÿto determine what it conveys to consumers.

Hey, that's us! Seems like Dish might be misleading us claiming they're giving us "True HD."

The FTC looks at both "express" and "implied" claims. An express claim is literally made in the ad. For example, "ABC Mouthwash prevents colds" is an express claim that the product will prevent colds. An implied claim is one made indirectly or by inference. "ABC Mouthwash kills the germs that cause colds" contains an implied claim that the product will prevent colds. Although the ad doesn't literally say that the product prevents colds, it would be reasonable for a consumer to conclude from the statement "kills the germs that cause colds" that the product will prevent colds. Under the law, advertisers must have proof to back up express and implied claims that consumers take from an ad.

Considering the 1280x1080i signal they're providing doesn't even match the resolution they claim on their own website (links have been posted elsewhere on this forum), I think we can check off this condition.

The FTC looks at what the ad does not say - that is, if the failure to include information leaves consumers with a misimpression about the product. For example, if a company advertised a collection of books, the ad would be deceptive if it did not disclose that consumers actually would receive abridged versions of the books.

Wow, that abridged book example is a very fitting comparison to what Dish is doing. Probably one of the best analogies I can think of.

The FTC looks at whether the claim would be "material" - that is, important to a consumer's decision to buy or use the product. Examples of material claims are representations about a product's performance, features, safety, price, or effectiveness.

Sounds like we can also check off this one.

The FTC looks at whether the advertiser has sufficient evidence to support the claims in the ad. The law requires that advertisers have proof before the ad runs.

I'm not sure how Dish would be able to support their claims of giving customer's True HD.
The only thing missing is, how would one prove to the FTC that Dish is providing a down-rezzed signal? And, who wants to file the complaint?

Scott

 

[dragon002]

. . . and it certainly looks like there might be a case for a complaint against Dish calling their down-rezzed programming HD. I have also posted this on the AVS Forum (larger audience that isn't aimed only at Dish).
Here's an excerpt from this page:
Hey, that's us! Seems like Dish might be misleading us claiming they're giving us "True HD."
Considering the 1280x1080i signal they're providing doesn't even match the resolution they claim on their own website (links have been posted elsewhere on this forum), I think we can check off this condition.
Wow, that abridged book example is a very fitting comparison to what Dish is doing. Probably one of the best analogies I can think of.
Sounds like we can also check off this one.
I'm not sure how Dish would be able to support their claims of giving customer's True HD.
The only thing missing is, how would one prove to the FTC that Dish is providing a down-rezzed signal? And, who wants to file the complaint?
Scott

question for you,

i have seen a ton of these posts. what exactly are you trying to do ?

get money back OR force directv and dish to go full blown (as you see it HD)??

you are NOT going to get full blown HD until AT least 2009,,,,IF then.

sd pays the bills, will continue to do so for at least 2 more years, and now the majority of us and the stockholders should suffer because you jumped the gun ??

HD aint all that and when all is said and done it will cost us all more $$$

 

[SRW1000]

question for you,
i have seen a ton of these posts. what exactly are you trying to do ?
get money back OR force directv and dish to go full blown (as you see it HD)??
you are NOT going to get full blown HD until AT least 2009,,,,IF then.
sd pays the bills, will continue to do so for at least 2 more years, and now the majority of us and the stockholders should suffer because you jumped the gun ??
HD aint all that and when all is said and done it will cost us all more $$$

I don't want any money. I want to see the providers give us, their customers, what they claim to be giving us. In the case, I want HD channels to actually be transmitted in HD. Or, if they have no intention of giving us "True" HD, then just be upfront and tell us that.

What I don't want to see is some bastardized version of HD become the de facto standard for the future. You, as an SD-customer, should appreciate that someone is looking out for your future interests.

Nobody has to suffer, not SD-programming customers, not stock holders.

Scott

 

[CPanther95]

Trying to force providers to either supply HD, or stop advertising that they are (if they arent).

If you find someplace to catch the Steeler game in HD Sunday, you'll change your tune.

 

[dragon002]

Trying to force providers to either supply HD, or stop advertising that they are (if they arent).
If you find someplace to catch the Steeler game in HD Sunday, you'll change your tune.

hey, panther.

ive seen it, maybe my 48 year old eyes dont appreciate it or it is the added cost or the install BS.

the gov should have held hearings with the industry, and regular folks and set a min standard. they didnt,,,,as usual,, and the industry groups have no authority, such as the (i think) astc


would have HD shown me a better shot of palmers knee??:devil: : :devil: ,,,,, ill pay now!!!!!

 

[jsb_hburg]

So, was the term "true HD" used during the Chat? I only know of three recognized HD formats and they are 1920 x 1080p, 1920 x 1080i and 1280 x 720p.

If you are concerned and so inclined, then contact your state's consumer protection unit most likely organized within your state's Office of Attorney General.

 

[SRW1000]

hey, panther.
ive seen it, maybe my 48 tear old eyes dont appreciate it or it is the added cost or the install BS.

Why are you reading this forum, if you have no interest in HD? I honestly think even my dead grandmother could see the improvement in HD over SD, but if you don't think it's worth it, stick with your SD. It's not going away for a long time.

For those of us who've made the (somewhat expensive) upgrade, let us have our fun. There's no impact on you one way or another, except for what you're missing.
Scott

 

[SRW1000]

So, was the term "true HD" used during the Chat? I only know of three recognized HD formats and they are 1920 x 1080p, 1920 x 1080i and 1280 x 720p.

If you are concerned and so inclined, then contact your state's consumer protection unit most likely organized within your state's Office of Attorney General.

Yes, the term True HD was used, and advertising with the phrase was plastered all over the CES footage.

The Attorney General is a definite option.

Scott

 

[dragon002]

sorry scott,

didnt realize i was in a dish (shudder) forum, have to go get a shower now.....

wish you the best with charlie.......................man i feel dirty now .............


....lol , only kidding

 

[SRW1000]

sorry scott,
didnt realize i was in a dish (shudder) forum, have to go get a shower now.....
wish you the best with charlie.......................man i feel dirty now .............
....lol , only kidding

Sorry, I should have been more precise. I should have asked why you're posting in the Dish HDTV forum, since you have no interest in HD.
Scott

 

[dragon002]

scott,

i am not a believer in the feds doing anything right.....except waging war and running commerce. which they do VERY WELL.

i just dont want HD run down 90% of the nation by 10% of you that is all.

this digital transition was all wrong from the start.....my opinion.

 

[BrianMis]

SRW, what exactially are you trying to accomplish here? Please keep in mind I'm not trying to start an debate or disrespect you, I am just trying to understand what you think the FTC would do for us. Are you trying to get Dish to bump the rez back up, or get them to pull the HD term from the website or their ads or what not.

The core HD Pak channels are still at full rez, the only channels (as of right now) that have been down rezzed are the voom channels and only 4 of them has be down rezzed since Dish got them. I also read somewhere the UHD is uplinked at full rez. The reason I am mentioning this is that Dish is giving us full rez hd, I don't think any type of complaint has merit until when/if they down rez everything.

When VOOM was still in operation, these channels were never sent in 1920x1080i. I want my pure untouched HD just like everyone else, but much to my dismay Dish is my only option for right now.

 

[SRW1000]

SRW, what exactially are you trying to accomplish here? Are you trying to get Dish to bump the rez back up, or get them to pull the HD term from the website or their ads or what not.
The core HD Pak channels are still at full rez, the only channels (as of right now) that have been down rezzed are the voom channels. I also read somewhere the UHD is uplinked at full rez. The reason I am mentioning this is that Dish is giving us full rez hd, I don't think any type of complaint has merit until when/if they down rez everything.
When VOOM was still in operation, these channels were never sent in 1920x1080i.

I want Dish to broadcast HD channels in true HD, or stop calling it HD.

Look, my biggest fear is that once Dish (and other providers) are allowed to define 1280x1080i as HD, that will become the de facto standard for HD. That's not in anyone's interest.
Scott

 

[BrianMis]

I want Dish to broadcast HD channels in true HD, or stop calling it HD.
Look, my biggest fear is that once Dish (and other providers) are allowed to define 1280x1080i as HD, that will become the de facto standard for HD. That's not in anyone's interest.
Scott

Fair enough, and I agree with you 100%. I have not been very vocal on this subject as I am still in wait and see mode. There is a lot of time for things to change between now and February 1st.

 

[spindoctor]

Fair enough, and I agree with you 100%. I have not been very vocal on this subject as I am still in wait and see mode. There is a lot of time for things to change between now and February 1st.

if we accept what they offer nothing is going to change


now with pressure some things might change


so.... another words whaterever works

TO THEM WE ARE A MINORITY

now is the time to act

 

[BrianMis]

if we accept what they offer nothing is going to change
now with pressure some things might change
so.... another words whaterever works
TO THEM WE ARE A MINORITY
now is the time to act

Make your voice heard, I think we are doing a great job of it now. Do you think Dish is reading these posts? I think so.

I've sent numerous emails to Dish about this, I sent 3 emails to Dish the same hour that Gary first posted about the down rezzing back weeks ago. I think we can just make a difference using our voices and our masses.

 

[SRW1000]

Do you think Dish is reading these posts? I think so.
I've sent numerous emails to Dish about this, I sent 3 emails to Dish the same hour that Gary first posted about the down rezzing back weeks ago. I think we can just make a difference using our voices and our masses.

I'm not sure if they're reading these or not. I'd like to think they care. At the same time, I find it rather alarming that they have a number of vocal defenders who are perfectly happy with less-than-HD.

It does give me hope to see the results of the quality vs. quantity poll here, though. If anything, I would like them to monitor that thread.

Scott

 

[CPanther95]

Not being able to call HD-Lite "HD" would be a significant blow. Even if it didn't have an immediate impact on quality, it would at least guarantee that the PQ would be addressed as fast as feasible.

It would be the equivalent of throwing a brand name like Kleenex, Q-Tip, or Tivo out into the marketplace and letting it be "up for grabs".

 

[BrianMis]

I'm not sure if they're reading these or not. I'd like to think they care. At the same time, I find it rather alarming that they have a number of vocal defenders who are perfectly happy with less-than-HD.
It does give me hope to see the results of the quality vs. quantity poll here, though. If anything, I would like them to monitor that thread.
Scott

I really, really want untouched pure HD. But the truth of the matter is that Dish is my only real option at this point. The local cable co. here really sucks for HD offerings, Everything on Direct is down rezzed. At least there is still some real HD on Dish for the time being.

I may be farting in the wind here and people will call me crazy, I am still holding out hope Dish is listening to us and will do the right thing.

 

[nitstalker]

I love your arguments, and I feel that HD feeds should be the best quality possible. However they techincally are not lying to their customers... Look into any of the HD resources there are out there... to qualify to be HD it must be either 720P or 1080i. Thats it.... There is no mention of how many vertical scan lines there must be to qualify.

Again, I say this is unfortunate, because I too would like HD to be 1920 instead of 1280... but look at the SD content they are sending down.... Traditional SD is 720x480... What they are sending down is 544x480, and your reciever stretches the 544 image to 720. But... SD is 480i... so they meet the qualifications of SD by having the 480 scan lines....

I feel that this is a battle that we will not win at all... Perhaps once HD reaches a larger saturation in a few years we will see more content in larger rez, either that or most content in lower HD rez, and for a premium, HD in higher rez...