I just do not know where to turn, invested so much money in a good 4K tv, the Q9FN from Samsung, and I have had nothing but problems. The TV is great with all non-Directv sources. I have an HR54 receiver and recently added a CK-61 client for 4K. Even with the HR54 receiver alone, I get bad periodic judder on many stations. The biggest channel offenders that come to mind are FX movies, TBS, TNT, Lifetime, USA. I have a feeling it is anything to do with the 24 fps content. I have looked around the internet a lot at various forums and I believe the conclusion I must come to is that the over compression of Directv signal makes some of the 24 fps content unwatchable on today's higher end newer TVs? No problems with ESPN, CNN, Fox News, etc. I can turn auto motion plus (the Samsung motion smoother) off, but that just produces a nauseating blurry picture with movement. I have swapped out HR54 a few times, had my TV main circuit board replaced with same result. Is there ever a chance Directv will change their compression technique? Has anyone found a solution to any judder they have experienced?
So many problems with Directv and 4k tv
- Thread starter nathan_IN1030
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Your going to have to play with your motion settings on your TV It has nothing to with over compression or compression from Directv.
I would visit avsforum.com and find the thread for your TV and ask there.
That TV model has issues removing judder from 24FPS film on a 60i Source
From rtings.com
The Q9FN is nearly judder free. When playing 24p content through a 60i source, like from a cable box, the Q9FN was inconsistent in removing judder. In a 24 frame test, there is judder in only 2 of the frames. This probably won't be noticeable to most people. Like other Samsungs we have tested recently, this result is unexpected and we will retest this with future firmware updates.
to Satelliteguys nathan_IN1030!One thing to try, hit the back button once or twice. See if that eliminates the problem.
I saw "judder" on certain cable channels, including ones the OP lists, with DirecTV, and I see it with Dish on those same channels. I have all motion smoothing de-juddering disabled on my Hopper (formerly HR54) input as I never watch anything that is 24fps on those devices. If I watch a program, say The Big Bang Theory on TBS, and it has the motion issue, I fire up Netflix on the Hopper and watch the same episode with no motion issues. It is either the original source or the transcoder for those channels. I tend to think it is the source as it affects both Dish and Directv. Also, I see it on my other two TVs connected to Joeys, one of which is a 50" 1080p/120Hz set and the other is a 32" 720p/60Hz set. It is less noticeable the smaller the TV is, but it is there.
edit: I realize Big Bang is no longer on Netflix, but it was when I got Dish almost two years ago.
edit: I realize Big Bang is no longer on Netflix, but it was when I got Dish almost two years ago.
When the OP says 24 frame content, what are you talking about, film based content only? I have three C61K's that are served by a HS17, feeding two 2016 model 4K Samsung's and one feeding a 2018 Samsung and aren't seeing any issue with the channels you noted.
It all depends on the various TV models
Like I posted above from RTINGS.com
Like other Samsungs we have tested recently, this result is unexpected and we will retest this with future firmware updates.
Your 2018 firmware may have corrected an issue already or that model never had it
Do you mind if I ask , what 2018 Samsung model you have? I might give the HS17 a try, I heard awhile back there were many bugs with the Genie 2 when it came out. Are those problems less now? The main problem I heard was that the system would go down and a person would have to wait awhile for it come back. There just seems to be an inherent incompatability between HR54 and the newer TVs when it comes to many Directv channels.
Is it the way 24fps content is transferred over to 60? It is uncanny how commercials play fine but all the original 24 fps content has the judder.
Not knowing exactly what the process is and who does the conversion (DirecTV or the channel prior to uplink?), I really don't know, but I see it too. I think some people are just more sensitive to it than others. My wife doesn't see it. Certain screen settings can obviously make it worse as well.
The 2018 is a cheapo that I got for the bedroom, a UN43NU6900. Based on the response from comp9 it sounds more like a firmware issue with that model Samsung. You might want to check their web site to see if there is new firmware out there, usually show up on that site before your TV would see it via the online download.
Unless things changed film is scanned with every third frame scanned twice to get 30fps.
Since movies with few exceptions are filmed at 24 fps when they're shown on TV its necessary to repeat frames to go to 30 fps (1080i) or 60 fps (720p) however many newer TVs are smart enough to recognize the repeated frames and switch to 24 fps playback in such cases. It shouldn't be dependent on whether you watch on Directv.
You won't see these issues on ESPN, Fox News etc. because they aren't showing content that was originally 24 fps.
If what you are seeing is worse than it was with your previous TV then maybe the Samsung is doing something screwy in a failed attempt to convert the content back to 24 fps. Try using an input designated for "PC" or "game", since those inputs usually disable such processing.
You won't see these issues on ESPN, Fox News etc. because they aren't showing content that was originally 24 fps.
If what you are seeing is worse than it was with your previous TV then maybe the Samsung is doing something screwy in a failed attempt to convert the content back to 24 fps. Try using an input designated for "PC" or "game", since those inputs usually disable such processing.
Again. It doesn’t matter if it is a HR54 or HS17 with a mini. It is how your tv handles motion processing
LG and Sony for example do a better job
I would post your problem here to get better help from other owners of your tv
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-...samsung-q9fn-owners-thread-no-price-talk.html
That is a good point. What shows is nathan_IN1030 seeing the issue on? Just movies? I see it on everything on certain channels, but not 100% of the time. For reference, my main TV is a Sony XBR70X850B, and that is where it is most noticeable to me.
for your model
For the reverse 3:2 pulldown, set Motionflow to TrueCinema. It won't add the soap opera effect.
Yes, I have that setting enabled. I have no issues with actual 24fps content, like BluRay. I am not getting 24fps from my Hopper and I didn't get it from my HR54 when I had that either. If there is nothing for the TV set to perform 3:2 pulldown on, it won't actually perform it. Cable channels don't change their frame rate based on what the original was filmed in, or at least none that I know of do. You would notice your TV changing from 60 to 24 every time the content frame rate changed. I don't think this is necessarily a 24 fps issue on the OP's TV, at least not based on the channels he referenced.
I cannot do an apples-to-apples comparison as I no longer have DirecTV, but in flipping through the channels he listed, I saw the judder (maybe stutter is a better description?) on TBS during a Lowes commercial, but not the other channels. I don't have FX Movies in my package, so I could not check that one. Again, this is not a scientific test, but I have noticed it on both satellite services, especially compared to OTA, which is what I had prior to DirecTV. MPEG4 motion is just not as smooth to my eye, and sometimes it is really obvious.
It is an issue with the TV. I had a 2016 Samsung briefly which had issues doing the same conversion and it was obvious. TV was upgraded to a LG about a month later and the issue was gone. I don’t know what it is with Samsung’s but they struggle with 24fps content being broadcast at 60i. If you read the motion interpolation reviews for that tv also they mention it struggles
For his tv. This was also recommended
The Samsung Q9FN can interpolate lower frame rate content up to 120 Hz to help reduce stutter. This function is commonly known as the 'Soap Opera Effect'. Some people find the effect strange, and in scenes with lots of motion there are artifacts. When motion gets too intense the Q9FN, like all Samsung TVs, will stop interpolating, preferring accuracy.
Interpolation is activated by setting 'Auto Motion Plus' to 'Custom'. The 'Judder Reduction' can be adjusted for low frame rate content, and the 'Blur Reduction' slider can be adjusted to help clear up motion on 60 fps content. When interpolation is enabled, the backlight changes to a 120 Hz flicker as seen on the Q8FN here.
The Samsung Q9FN can interpolate lower frame rate content up to 120 Hz to help reduce stutter. This function is commonly known as the 'Soap Opera Effect'. Some people find the effect strange, and in scenes with lots of motion there are artifacts. When motion gets too intense the Q9FN, like all Samsung TVs, will stop interpolating, preferring accuracy.
Interpolation is activated by setting 'Auto Motion Plus' to 'Custom'. The 'Judder Reduction' can be adjusted for low frame rate content, and the 'Blur Reduction' slider can be adjusted to help clear up motion on 60 fps content. When interpolation is enabled, the backlight changes to a 120 Hz flicker as seen on the Q8FN here.
I have a Q9FN 75" with a HR-44 no 4k. The only way for me to keep from seeing judder was to turn off the auto motion setting, the picture looks ok but not as good as streaming from say ESPN+
I had a top of the line plasma TV before and it did a better job with DIRECTV picture but this Q9FN is way ahead of it with better sources.
I had a top of the line plasma TV before and it did a better job with DIRECTV picture but this Q9FN is way ahead of it with better sources.