Surge Suppression and Power Condtioning

M

M Law

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SatelliteGuys Family
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Sep 30, 2003
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Surge Suppression and Power Conditioning

What is everyone doing for surge suppression and possibly power conditioning? I know this topic has been beaten to death from time to time, but I'm curious what everyone is doing if anything, in these two areas.

Just got a ZeroSurge 8R15TWR myself (MOVs are not the way to go in my opinion), but I have nothing for line conditioning other than what the suppressor might provide.

Does anyone use in-line coax surge protectors? Since the coax coming into the house is obviously separate from the house electrical, normal power line surge suppressors will do nothing to prevent a spike, which could end up going through everything connected. I haven't' gotten any yet, but would like to hear others experiences and recommendations.

Power conditioning is another area that supposedly can provide real benefits, but I am not so sure. I would think you would have to have poor power to begin with to really gain any benefit. Any experience out there?
 
Y

yrac

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 20, 2003
41
0
Union City, CA
I keep hearing a hiss from my speakers at low volumes, and was annoying at 8' away.
I added an Isolation transformer from b-p-t.com to help suppress common mode noise, and now the hiss is barely inaudible. The BPT unit has MOVs inside, but wanted a series mode surge suppressor, so I added a Brickwall unit if front of the BPT.

I don't have in-line coax surge suppressors.

I was thinking about an AC regenerator, but I measured the voltage with a DVM and decided to save some money since my voltage dips to only about 117.5VAC with my system on (about 123 with it off).
 
D

Daddyad

Member
Dec 25, 2003
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I bought a Monster line conditioner and returned it within a week because it had a horrible effect on my stereo's audio range. The bass response of my system was subpar when the line conditioner was in use. I might get blasted for this opinion but I think they are a horrible waste of money. I had the Monster Home Theatre PowerCenter HTS 2000. In arriving at this opinion, the relevant components in my system include the following:
Onkyo 787 receiver with the two front channels powered by an Onkyo m-504 amp
NHT 2.5i speakers for my mains
B&W 12" powered sub
I used high end MIT speaker cables and Kimber Kable.

I am by no means an audiophile, but the depth of sound had pretty much disappeared after the Monster conditioner was hooked up. I was surprised so I hooked it up multiple times to make sure it was done correctly. I would advise anybody to buy it from a store where you can return it in case you run into what I experienced.
 
M

M Law

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
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Sep 30, 2003
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That sounds like a nice system Daddyad. So when you say it had a horrible affect on your stereo's audio range, what do you mean exactly? Are you saying it clipped the dynamic range, or cut off part of the frequency range? I realize audio imaging is a very hard thing to define, but I am curious what may have caused it to begin with.
 
B

bobj2004

SatelliteGuys Guru
Feb 9, 2004
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I use a high end computer UPS that can even power my 65" RPTV.
 
D

Daddyad

Member
Dec 25, 2003
11
0
M Law-
Its hard to explain in words. Basically the crisp bass response turned into a rather muddy deep response. The full range no longer seemed to be present. Even my wife who shudders everytime I buy a home theater component and could care less about this stuff could tell the immediate change. I spoke with a few higher end stereo stores in the area and none of them knew what the cause was but did suggest other nicer line conditioners. I haven't yet paid for a nicer one just because I've been spending money on other things lately.
 
pacman

pacman

SatelliteGuys Family
Sep 30, 2003
102
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SF Bay Area, CA
I have been using a Panamax unit for over 8 years now and have not had any power problems at all for any component connected to it. It scrams when a brownout occurs and has been worth every penny I spent on it (and I believe I spent 25,000 pennies ($250) when I purchased it).
 
D

Daddyad

Member
Dec 25, 2003
11
0
Pacman-
which model of Panamax do you have. I might try giving that a shot. I heard good things about that company when I was searching for my Monster line conditioner.
 
M

M Law

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Supporting Founder
Sep 30, 2003
105
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Gotta say I am disappointed with the number of replies to this thread. I honestly was curious what people were using, and specifically I was interested in the in-line surgenders. I guess if its not a thread to complain and rant, then the regulars are just not interested. Sure, some will say this has been discussed to death, but in searching the site there really hasn't been that much discussion that I could find, maybe I'm wrong.
 
ROLLTIDE

ROLLTIDE

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Sep 25, 2003
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So much for my idea of starting a thread on this ... I was looking for more info on this .
 
silversurfer

silversurfer

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
1,147
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Las Vegas, Nevada
I just have a APC Backups 500 on my DTivo and my multi-switch. I just have a standard Belkin surge protector on the rest of my equipment. My insurance will cover anything beyond that....
 
Kevinw

Kevinw

Just a regular guy
Pub Member / Supporter
Dec 2, 2003
2,992
13
Jacksonville, FL
My feeling is that most people are not will ng to shell out dollars on more Monster products. 200-250 for low end for line conditioner to ungodly amounts of money for unkown technology.
Considering that no difference can be seen between Monster and say Radio Shack producrs, other than a shrinking bank account. What incentive is there to purchase more Monster magic.
http://www.monstercable.com/power/
 
ROLLTIDE

ROLLTIDE

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Sep 25, 2003
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i'm going to buy a panmax very soon. I have some major ac interference.
 
Y

yrac

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 20, 2003
41
0
Union City, CA
Kevinw said:
My feeling is that most people are not will ng to shell out dollars on more Monster products. 200-250 for low end for line conditioner to ungodly amounts of money for unkown technology.
Considering that no difference can be seen between Monster and say Radio Shack producrs, other than a shrinking bank account. What incentive is there to purchase more Monster magic.
http://www.monstercable.com/power/

I agree. A good surge protector should suffice (like the series mode surge protectors from Zerosurge and Brickwall).

ROLLTIDE said:
i'm going to buy a panmax very soon. I have some major ac interference.

You could also try a balanced transformer. That helped me in my system with noise and interference.
 
csschrot

csschrot

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
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Lincoln Ne
I'm using the Monster HTS3500 with the Yamaha RXV-1 B&W 603, DS6 (3), LM1 and the Defintive PLF15+ Sub. My wife and I noticed a cleaner sound we added this about 2.5 years ago. We ran the system for about 6 months before we added it. I have been real happy with the preformace of it.
 
Y

yrac

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 20, 2003
41
0
Union City, CA
ROLLTIDE said:
Can you tell me more about a balanced transformer ?

from my understanding that a balanced transformer takes your incoming 120VAC and splits that into +/- 60V components with respect to earth ground (Line-to-earth, Neutral-to-earth). By using this method, it helps cancels most of the noise on your AC. When the the +/-60V component are summed by your gear, you get a 120VAC with a lowered noise floor.

For more info check out:
www.furmansound.com
www.exactpower.com
www.equitech.com
www.hometheaterhifi.com/masterindex_power_conditioners.html

I have a balanced transformer from www.b-p-t.com
 
red hazard

red hazard

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Oct 13, 2003
557
7
St Louis Metro East (Illinois)
In-line Coax Surge Suppressor

I use a Monster 3500 at Point of Service (POS) as a surge and noise suppressor. It works fine but after examining the componenets, it appears to be greatly over priced. I am also one of the few that use an in-line coax surge suppressor at Point of Entry (POE) into the house. The brand I use is a TII 212FF75F22521 which is a gas filled surge suppressor. Experts recommend both POS and POE surge suppression for electrical power so it seems logical that the reasoning would apply to DSS coax too. I also checked for insertion loss and was getting identical readings of 112 relative signal strength on an 811 with both the TII and a coax barrel connector so the TII's signal loss is negligeble.

However, if I decide to upgrade to DishPro then all the surge suppressors I use now more likley will need to be replaced. Most surge suppressors are designed to pass only up to 1.5GHz without severe attenuation while DishPro requires components to pass 2.2GHz. Hope this is the information you were looking for.
 
M

M Law

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Family
Supporting Founder
Sep 30, 2003
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Red hazard - that's a nice looking product, first time I've seen one of that make. I agree with you, my intent was to put one on both ends of the cable, and preferrably one in combination with a ground block. It never made much sense to me to put the suppressor on the POS of the cable and then connect it directly to the electronics. Since I'm already using DishPro, the higher bandwidth is a must. TII doesn't seem to make one for that bandwidth,a nd the only one I have found so far is the DLPS-SAT1. Anyone know of any others?
 
red hazard

red hazard

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Oct 13, 2003
557
7
St Louis Metro East (Illinois)
Dlps-sat1 TVSS

Where can you purchase the DLPS-SAT1? Also it's not necessary to use a ground block if the DLPS-SAT1 can accept an 8 AWG ground wire as it would perform the same grounding function that the ground block would. The TII that I mentioned is available on EBAY for about 11 bucks plus S&H. After I upgrade to DISH PRO, I intend to test the TII to see if it actually causes any problems at the higher freqs. If it does, then I'll install the DLPS-SAT1 or similiar product (if I locate one).
 

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