Technical questions and advice - Caribbean: HD/Regular/FTA

[ELaimins]

Hi folks,

Well, here goes...

I am up in Plymouth, Mass right now, but my questions pertain to a Dish TV install in the US Virgin Islands. As I am in New England (CONUS) I can get through Dish the "Everything Pak" with Platinum HD. This package is not available if I were to go through a local Virgin Islands authorized Dish TV reseller/installer where only America's "200 Pak" plus a few HD stations is offered. So, my thinking is to order the Dish package up here, have Dish install their stuff and then dismantle the system and ship it down to the USVI so that I can get the "Everything Pak" with Platinum HD down there. (I have no problem missing my local HD programming either in New England or in the USVI...)

Talking to a couple installers in the Caribbean, they say a 5' dish (minimum) is recommended for good Dish TV reception. Fine, I accept that. 5' or greater it is...

Now, I understand that in general one dish can accommodate both Dish TV HD and non-HD Dish TV programming (they use Echostar 10/11 at 110W down there). Is this a correct assumption? Would that be done by two LNB's on one dish?

Now to complicate matters further, I also want a motorized dish setup which can accommodate FTA broadcasts...

In short, I want three types of programming on one motorized dish: Dish TV, Dish TV HD (off of Echostar 10/11) AND "seeable" FTA's of my choosing.

It's perfectly acceptable for us to be able to NOT SIMULTANEOUSLY watch programming off Echostar 10/11 AND a FTA satellite of some sort at the same time. In other words, even though we'd have two TV's (one HD and one not), it would be fine by us to point the dish at some FTA bird and watch some programming on it, even though it would mean BOTH TV's at that time would be "dedicated" to watching that FTA bird. Then if we wanted to watch Dish TV/Dish HD we'd just point back to Echostar 10/11 and then both TV's would be "dedicated" to Dish TV/Dish HD...

I just got off the phone with the fine folks at Sadoun. I explained it to them what it is we want to do and he said it is technically possible, though his main concern was the three LNB's on one dish. He did say that the surface area was large enough to allow for three LNB's on one dish. He had some general concerns about me wanting to be able to watch Dish TV/Dish HD AND FTA off of one dish, but that related more to setup/configuration/cabling matters (which we didn't get into and I have no clue about..). And Yes, I do know that I will at least also need at least need a FTA receiver of some sort...

I don't want my home in the USVI to look like a NASA satellite tracking installation so it is critical that one dish accommodate all three requirements I note above.

Any thoughts anyone? Are multi-LNB setups available to accomodate my specific requirements? Any inclinations as to Sadoun's concerns about setup/configuration/cabling issues for these requirements? Any recommendations for receiever(s) hardware?

My initial thinking is to let Dish install their "Everything Pak" with Platinum HD up here in New England, and then dismantle it and ship everything down to the islands-including my own seperately bought 5' or 6' (or greater?) dish, leaving Dish TV's freebie dish up here in my garage...

Ok guys, I know you know your stuff. If you have a moment I'd really welcome some input!!

Regards,

Eric

 

[garys]

You need bigger dishes than what Dish Network will install in order to get adaquate signal in the Caribbean, also the idea for a motorized dish will not work since Dish's current lnb's will not work with FTA nor will most of FTA lnb's work with Dish.

 

[ELaimins]

You need bigger dishes than what Dish Network will install in order to get adaquate signal in the Caribbean, also the idea for a motorized dish will not work since Dish's current lnb's will not work with FTA nor will most of FTA lnb's work with Dish.

Hi Gary

Many thanks. No, I realize that the freebie DishTV satellite dish is not what I'll need down there-hence my mention of "at least a 5' dish". (Sadoun has a 6' dish that looks about right...)

So, if I have my own 6' dish which I'll purchase on my own. is that doable?

Eric

 

[technoguy]

Hi Gary

Many thanks. No, I realize that the freebie DishTV satellite dish is not what I'll need down there-hence my mention of "at least a 5' dish". (Sadoun has a 6' dish that looks about right...)

So, if I have my own 6' dish which I'll purchase on my own. is that doable?

Eric

Yes

 

[ELaimins]

Yes

LMAO

That's what Sadoun's guy said!!

And?!?!?

Perhaps you could point me to a setup like that, eh? Is the HW sold for the triple lnb w/dish?

 

[FLORIDA-CELLULAR]

Nothing from Sadouns will work...you need Offset..not prime focus.....and it will NOT work with a motor. And you will NOT get your locals....and there is a separate and even bigger dish for HD....... Enjoy.

 

[harshness]

In order to take advantage of Platinum HD, you'll need at least one more giant dish pointed at 61.5W. You'll probably also need an Eastern Arc capable receiver to operate without a third giant dish pointed at 119W.

 

[DUGGAN00969]

If you want all available (in the caribbean range) HD Channels from Dish...your going to need at least three 6 ft dishes. That being said....if it rains the signals from 119 and 61.5 are going to fade away (hd that is) and the ones on 110 are more powerful now so they stay during light rain (here in puerto rico).

I should also mention that a lot of national HD programming is not available to subscribe to from the caribbean at this time.....they will not activate it. So...you will want to activate it up there in Kennedy land

So...three dishes. Fta...probably it's own dish

 

[DUGGAN00969]

I should mention that I get all those HD Channels (most of the time) as I apparently was grandfathered in as a long time hd/dish subscriber. In other words I am legally subscribed.......but I know lots of people who are not because of the rules at dish

 

[ELaimins]

If you want all available (in the caribbean range) HD Channels from Dish...your going to need at least three 6 ft dishes. That being said....if it rains the signals from 119 and 61.5 are going to fade away (hd that is) and the ones on 110 are more powerful now so they stay during light rain (here in puerto rico).

I should also mention that a lot of national HD programming is not available to subscribe to from the caribbean at this time.....they will not activate it. So...you will want to activate it up there in Kennedy land

So...three dishes. Fta...probably it's own dish

Thanks guys!

THREE dishes Duggan?! Howzat??

I can see Echostar 10/11 down there no problem. Hell, I can see all of Dish's satellites from down there.

As I understand it, if I had a Dish "everything Pak" with the HD upgrade installed up here in Mass, then only one dish would be needed.

Ok, so if I move my equipment down in the islands, all I'd need is a bigger dish, allowing for a weaker signal, but it would still be one dish nonetheless.

The problems/complications arise when I want to add FTA capability with a motorized dish, it seems?? The extra (third) FTA LNB is problematic, correct?

 

[ahuevos]

Thanks guys!

THREE dishes Duggan?! Howzat??

I can see Echostar 10/11 down there no problem. Hell, I can see all of Dish's satellites from down there.

As I understand it, if I had a Dish "everything Pak" with the HD upgrade installed up here in Mass, then only one dish would be needed.

Ok, so if I move my equipment down in the islands, all I'd need is a bigger dish, allowing for a weaker signal, but it would still be one dish nonetheless.

The problems/complications arise when I want to add FTA capability with a motorized dish, it seems?? The extra (third) FTA LNB is problematic, correct?

Duggan is right. NO WAY Three sats in one dish. That only works inCONUS. Outside Conus and more specifically the Caribbean its one sat per dish. It does not matter if you are trying to get dish or FTA. Maybe you can get two but it would need a 1.8 M or larger and no guarantee.

There are only about two sat combos you can get with one dish in the caribbean and its not 110/119.

 

[ELaimins]

Duggan is right. NO WAY Three sats in one dish. That only works inCONUS. Outside Conus and more specifically the Caribbean its one sat per dish. It does not matter if you are trying to get dish or FTA. Maybe you can get two but it would need a 1.8 M or larger and no guarantee.

There are only about two sat combos you can get with one dish in the caribbean and its not 110/119.

Thanks for that Mr Huevos

 

[DUGGAN00969]

yes....three dishes...wish it was not true....b

I have a two story house that has approximately 10 feet in the back where it is only one story. It is there that I have my three six foot dishes. At one time I was fortunate enough that Channels 2-4-5-7 from Boston were in Conus and dish used to allow me to subscribe to them legally here in puerto rico. One day....they were gone.....it was the beginning of spot beams. But I still get Channel 38 wsbk from boston as one of the superstations. I should mention I am originally from the Boston area...that was my interest.

Those three dishes on the back of my house....unless I need to go to the roof....I am not even aware they are there and of course they cannot be seen from the street.

One other note if you plan to have your satellite service " in massachusetts " ....be sure to subscribe to NESN and CSNE for the Red Sox and the Boston Celtics and the Bruins. I say this because those channels and there Hi Def equivelants are on the conus beam and reach Puerto Rico. Also remember that dish no longer has the baseball package extra innings......so NESN would be needed. Many of the local cable companies I believe in P.R. and the Virgin Islands have the package on cable tv systems.

One thing to really keep in mind....the virgin islands are east of puerto rico...so the signals for dish are bound to be a little weaker. On the 119 satellite there are distant network channels from San Francisco and Atlanta is you find you cannot get a good local network channel signal. Rumors say that some channels in puerto rico and st thomas are going to go hi def soon.....that could be interesting...although I would not hold my breath waiting.

The caribbean was supposed to be getting some Hi-Def national channels spot beamed specially in this direction....has not happened yet....probably because of the failure of a dish satellite launch not long ago.

By the way......Directv in Puerto Rico...is not Directv U.S, and it is full of spanish language programming along with english programming. Dish here in Puerto Rico is same (more or less) as the mainland.

 

[ELaimins]

yes....three dishes...wish it was not true....b

I have a two story house that has approximately 10 feet in the back where it is only one story. It is there that I have my three six foot dishes. At one time I was fortunate enough that Channels 2-4-5-7 from Boston were in Conus and dish used to allow me to subscribe to them legally here in puerto rico. One day....they were gone.....it was the beginning of spot beams. But I still get Channel 38 wsbk from boston as one of the superstations. I should mention I am originally from the Boston area...that was my interest.

Those three dishes on the back of my house....unless I need to go to the roof....I am not even aware they are there and of course they cannot be seen from the street.

One other note if you plan to have your satellite service " in massachusetts " ....be sure to subscribe to NESN and CSNE for the Red Sox and the Boston Celtics and the Bruins. I say this because those channels and there Hi Def equivelants are on the conus beam and reach Puerto Rico. Also remember that dish no longer has the baseball package extra innings......so NESN would be needed. Many of the local cable companies I believe in P.R. and the Virgin Islands have the package on cable tv systems.

One thing to really keep in mind....the virgin islands are east of puerto rico...so the signals for dish are bound to be a little weaker. On the 119 satellite there are distant network channels from San Francisco and Atlanta is you find you cannot get a good local network channel signal. Rumors say that some channels in puerto rico and st thomas are going to go hi def soon.....that could be interesting...although I would not hold my breath waiting.

The caribbean was supposed to be getting some Hi-Def national channels spot beamed specially in this direction....has not happened yet....probably because of the failure of a dish satellite launch not long ago.

By the way......Directv in Puerto Rico...is not Directv U.S, and it is full of spanish language programming along with english programming. Dish here in Puerto Rico is same (more or less) as the mainland.

Hi Duggan,

It seems like subscribing up here at first is the way to go, simply because more channels are available to subsrcibe to!

I reckon I'll have to put aside my FTA requirement for now, and just focus on Dish w/HD-which all in all ain't that bad.

A couple of folks, you as well, say "no way" can I use only one dish to get both HD and non-HD programming down there. Man, I hope not and why would this be the case?? Any ideas? Weaker signal(s)?

Eric

 

[garys]

If the sd and HD are on the same sat, then sure 1 dish could do it, but you wanted HD with the AEP. The channels would be spread across 3 sats, it is easier to get the 3 sat by using 1 dish for each sat. Dish's sats cover the Continental United States, the Caribbean is boarder line to the beams and would be weaker than what you receive in MA. You need the bigger dish's to collect as much of the signal as possible. Using 1 dish to point at 2 sats will take signal quality away just by trying to use them as this setup would having you pointing between the 2 sats which will give you less signal. The farther you are out of the beam's range, the more spot on you have to be in order to get a usable signal. If you search for setup's used in Mexico, you get the same type of problem you are going to encounter.

 

[ELaimins]

If the sd and HD are on the same sat, then sure 1 dish could do it, but you wanted HD with the AEP. The channels would be spread across 3 sats, it is easier to get the 3 sat by using 1 dish for each sat. Dish's sats cover the Continental United States, the Caribbean is boarder line to the beams and would be weaker than what you receive in MA. You need the bigger dish's to collect as much of the signal as possible. Using 1 dish to point at 2 sats will take signal quality away just by trying to use them as this setup would having you pointing between the 2 sats which will give you less signal. The farther you are out of the beam's range, the more spot on you have to be in order to get a usable signal. If you search for setup's used in Mexico, you get the same type of problem you are going to encounter.

Hi Gary,

Hmmmm so the signal loss due to having less centered lnb's (due to having a dual lnb on one dish setup as opposed to one lnb per dish) significantly degrades the reception??

I plan to point at Echostar 11 at 110W. According to Lyngsat that bird carries both Dish's HD and regular programming. Why would I need to point "between" satellites if Echo11 carries all the Dish programming I want?

Eric

 

[technoguy]

LMAO

That's what Sadoun's guy said!!

And?!?!?

Perhaps you could point me to a setup like that, eh? Is the HW sold for the triple lnb w/dish?

A picture speaks louder than words, with that in mine these are pictures for setups in Puerto Rico(60 west of the USVI )also using on Vieques and Culebras Islands (20 miles west from USVI)

Below is a picture for a must be Dish setup for 61.5

You can use a one dish setup for 119 and 110 (since echo 11 is online)
Btw in order to keep your full HD program you have to let primary addres on the continental US,Puerto Rico and the USVI has been striped to use the 61.5 and we still fighting with dishnetwork in order to get it back.BTW I'm not Sadouns guy since I'm not performed FTA intallations,I'm work with the largest retailer in Puerto Rico.

Today's Television - Home

 

[garys]

Hi Gary,

Hmmmm so the signal loss due to having less centered lnb's (due to having a dual lnb on one dish setup as opposed to one lnb per dish) significantly degrades the reception??

I plan to point at Echostar 11 at 110W. According to Lyngsat that bird carries both Dish's HD and regular programming. Why would I need to point "between" satellites if Echo11 carries all the Dish programming I want?

Eric

You are giving conflicting information. If you want the AEP and HD you would need to look at three sat locations. Most of Dish HD is on 61.5 and only a couple on 110 with some sd while 119 has most of the balance of sd programing. If you try using a Dish 500 to get 110 and 119, you are really pointing the dish between those two sats. This works fine as long as you within the sat's beam. Going to a place where the signal is not so strong to begin with, pointing between two sats will not get you strong enough siganls to view channels from either of the sats.
This link may give you better info as to what channels are available on which sat. Lyngsat is ok, but sometimes their info is not up to date.
SatelliteGuys.US - Dish Network ALL

 

[ELaimins]

You can use a one dish setup for 119 and 110 (since echo 11 is online)
Btw in order to keep your full HD program you have to let primary addres on the continental US,Puerto Rico and the USVI has been striped to use the 61.5 and we still fighting with dishnetwork in order to get it back.BTW I'm not Sadouns guy since I'm not performed FTA intallations,I'm work with the largest retailer in Puerto Rico.

Gracias technoguy

"You can use a one dish setup for 119 and 110 (since echo 11 is online)"

Es la verdad?!?

But you cannot point to 61.5 anymore? That is a problem for you because...viewing off of 119 and 110 in the PR is limited simply because Dish PR will not let you buy the packages like the "America's Everything Pak" we can get in the CONUS, and you are stuck with a maximum of the "America's Top 200" package?

To sum it up, then, a one Dish option is possible (provided it is big enough) to receive Dish's HD and regular programming. That's great news!

Now, one final question: it would be a dual lnb setup with one lnb pointing to 110 and the other to 119?

Eric

 

[ELaimins]

You are giving conflicting information. If you want the AEP and HD you would need to look at three sat locations. Most of Dish HD is on 61.5 and only a couple on 110 with some sd while 119 has most of the balance of sd programing. If you try using a Dish 500 to get 110 and 119, you are really pointing the dish between those two sats. This works fine as long as you within the sat's beam. Going to a place where the signal is not so strong to begin with, pointing between two sats will not get you strong enough siganls to view channels from either of the sats.
This link may give you better info as to what channels are available on which sat. Lyngsat is ok, but sometimes their info is not up to date.

Thanks Gary

You are right about Dish's HD programming. Echo3 at 61.5 has essentially double the HD programming of Echo11 at 110. Damn.

I think I will follow technoguy's suggestions. One Dish with two lnb's on it, buy the DishTV package stateside, buy my own 6' dish and any other HW I'd need, ship all the stuff down...AND then setup for 61.5 as it has the best combination of most HD channels and regular programming available?!