The future of cable may be no TV at all

Discussion in 'Cable and Fiber Providers' started by osu1991, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Juan

    Juan Supporting Founder
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    Do you know what a roku or fire stick is?... sounds like you only know how to stream from a desk top

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  2. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

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    I have and use both (though I use the Roku a lot more). Using either doesn't seem to impact my web browsing experience.
    No, but since viewer-targeted ads aren't a thing with Roku (other than e-mails with suggestions from the streaming services themselves), I wonder how you figure that I can learn that I'm being tracked by Comcast.

    Remind me again how any of what you said supports your contention that one's broadband provider can gather and sell marketing information about you.
     
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  3. Juan

    Juan Supporting Founder
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    Maybe you should take some time and experiment with a firetv and a VPN...you might be amazed at what you can do..Not all VPNs are the same...you want one that can fool netflix.. meaning you don't get a Netflix error saying stream cant play because you are using a VPN

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  4. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

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    What does this have to do with my broadband provider making money selling marketing information about me?

    I claim that they can't track my viewing habits now and adding VPN (or any other form of obfuscation) to the picture isn't going to reduce that.

    VPN has two applications:
    • data privacy where encryption isn't already in play
    • to lie about where you're located.
    Data privacy is already handled by HTTPS so the rest is just a lie about your geolocation and that's something that isn't really marketable whether or not it is accurate. From the marketing perspective, VPN only foils those who are paying to advertise their products to people living in the area of your Internet IP address. With VPN you'll see general (as opposed to targeted) advertising aimed at the geolocation of your VPN service. In the end, what you're streaming still isn't known whether you use VPN or not.

    Any tracking of your personal traffic is handled through cookies.
     
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  5. Juan

    Juan Supporting Founder
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    Here ya go

    ISPs can now collect and sell your data: What to know about Internet privacy rules

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  6. . Raine

    . Raine SatelliteGuys Pro
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    I get a kind of funny result clicking the link posted above. At least, I think it's funny.

    Screenshot_20190310-184325.png
     
  7. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

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    The article notes that the ISPs will not use this capability. It suggests that the ISPs would have to set up a "man-in-the-middle" situation as I suggested earlier.

    Later in the article it introduces Google and Facebook under the larger class of "companies" and they aren't ISPs -- a trick you've tried more than once.

    The article doesn't really support the argument you're trying to make.
     
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  8. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

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    This is a result of an advertising device used here at Satellite Guys called Viglink. It can be very intrusive.

    The link that appears when you hover is where you want to go, but the actual link is to:
    Code:
    https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_155231490383531&key=75e6a59ec8cc421e360c4b7d2e7e5937&libId=jt4ffu3n010004jw000DA170zl380bp5rg&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.satelliteguys.us%2Fxen%2Fthreads%2Fthe-future-of-cable-may-be-no-tv-at-all.381129%2F%23post-4344551&v=1&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Ftech%2Fnews%2F2017%2F04%2F04%2Fisps-can-now-collect-and-sell-your-data-what-know-internet-privacy%2F100015356%2F&title=The%20future%20of%20cable%20may%20be%20no%20TV%20at%20all%20%7C%20SatelliteGuys.US&txt=ISPs%20can%20now%20collect%20and%20sell%20your%20data%3A%20What%20to%20know%20about%20Internet%20privacy%20rules
    In quite a few instances, the links don't work.
     
  9. Juan

    Juan Supporting Founder
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    They control the router you connect to...I " hope" you understand they can see your browsing history from there..if they know your ip address

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  10. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

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    Your ISP probably doen't control the router in your home. Any metrics they need usually come from the modem.

    Most everything between your computer/device and the destination on the Internet is kept private by HTTPS. You can't monitor to contents of the packets from your router unless you're using specialized proxy software on the router. Sure, the router knows where you're going to in terms of IP addresses but it doesn't have any idea what you're doing there and that's the key to blowing up your argument.
     
  11. Juan

    Juan Supporting Founder
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    Not about your home...the "gateway " router that all their customers routers connect to

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  12. ncted

    ncted SatelliteGuys Pro
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    They only know the DNS queries you make, not the content you watch within a streaming app or encrypted website...aside from http URLs. They might get the odd https URL, but modern browsers should setup the SSL/TLS negotiation before making material URL requests.

    I know AT&T scapes as much as they can from my use of my home Internet connection, but it is mostly DNS queries from what I know as there are so many ways to encode URLs that it becomes impossible to be able to interpret all of them and not cost efficient to spend the CPU time to figure out what trillions of URLs a day actually translate to, at least not yet.
     
  13. Juan

    Juan Supporting Founder
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    I use a VPN to avoid that
     
  14. ncted

    ncted SatelliteGuys Pro
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    So, it is only the people at the other end of the VPN you have to worry about then. You have place-shifted the potential monitoring of your usage.
     
  15. Juan

    Juan Supporting Founder
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    Along with tools like this
    How We Do Data Harvesting - BrightPlanet


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  16. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

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    These are spiders/robots for website crawling. They don't monitor anyone's web traffic.

    These are the people you would hire to find out if your private information or intellectual property (copyrighted text or music for example) appears somewhere on the Internet.
     
  17. Juan

    Juan Supporting Founder
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    You still don't understand...with 5g nobody cares what website you view...the focus is on using the web versus surfing the web..you will have dozens of devices that will stream data content acriss the web...it could be a refrigerator that orders food or requests maintenance...the ISP will be able to identify how many streams you have and where they are going...once they know what products you like and use ( with data mining) they will sell that info to advertisers who will send targeted ads to your smart tv that only you can see

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  18. ncted

    ncted SatelliteGuys Pro
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    That is what "they" want to do, for sure. I will resist every effort of "theirs" to do so. I am more likely to go completely off the grid than have constant ads shoveled into my eyeballs.
     
  19. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

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    It is you that clearly isn't getting it.

    Nobody is going to be surprised if your refrigerator phones home to its manufacturer and they figure out who you are from your warranty registration. Using this information, they can know that the refrigerator is plugged in and maybe if you've changed your address since you filled out the warranty card. That's like your broadband provider learning who your broadband provider is. Knowing where you shop has maybe the same value to advertisers as knowing what your shoe size is. 5g, LTE, DSL, fiber or satellite broadband has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    If you use an app on your refrigerator (or your phone or your computer or your tablet) to order food or beverages, that information will be seen only by the app provider as they encrypt the important information including the URLs themselves.

    Since you've apparently chosen to ignore where this all started, this is about how your ISP is going to gather valuable information about what TV programming you're watching in a third-party streaming model. Your TV doesn't know because it isn't providing you the menu of programming (except maybe for OTA) so it can't rat you out behind your back. Your streaming device can know that you're visiting Hulu or Netflix but it doesn't know what you're watching as it is only rendering a menu sent to it by the streaming provider using software deployed by the streaming provider.

    Show how these devices, however they're connected, can gather marketable information about what you watch on TV and you'll have accomplished something.
     

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