The most basic, stupid question.

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Dee_Ann

Dee_Ann

Thread Starter
Angry consumer!
May 23, 2009
3,420
286
Texas
In a few days I’ll have a new meter and it will be time to finally get my dishes in proper working order.
The trees are gone so now it’s only a matter of me aligning them properly, no more “Oh woe is me, trees in the way!”

I switched out the LNBF in my 10’ dish the other day and in the process, I noticed that the skew markings on the backs of the two of them are different. See the attached image below.

IMG 9775

Anyway. Let’s play C-band for dipsticks for a minute. After several years of thrashing about like I’m drowning in the ocean I have come to realize that it’s just a puddle and I’m not drowning. Time to stop thrashing about, calm down and call for help.. :rolleyes:

In my drawing here, let us say that I am standing in front of the dish facing it.
(big circle is the dish, the little circle in the middle is the LNBF)
Inside the LNBF there are two little wires that I believe are the horizontal and vertical antennas. Yes?

Should the LNBF be mounted so that the vertical antenna is perfectly plumb, in alignment with the big metal bar in the back that the dish pivots side to side on? I don’t know what that part if called.
If I tip the dish all the way forward so that it’s vertical, that big square bar is also vertical.

IMG 9790b

Now if the LNBF is aligned so that it’s little antenna inside is perfectly vertical, that would mean that the horizontal antenna would be either at the 3 or 9 o’clock position depending on where the horizontal goes, does it go at 12 or 6 o’clock? Um, or maybe my drawing is all wrong.

Dish

I noticed that inside the LNBF there is a thick metal rod which is a mystery to me but it seems to be in all the C-band LNBF’s that I have so I guess it’s legit. Do I line this rod up so that it’s perfectly vertical?

IMG 9813

Is it true that the skew is changed by the dish pivoting around the arc?

Once I get the LNBF mystery figured out then I would like to move on to setting the elevation.

I don’t want to jump ahead because I’ll get everything all mixed up and start thrashing around in the puddle again.

I THINK I more or less know the steps to align an HH motorized KU dish but this is obviously more complicated. I’ve never gotten my 10’ dish to work right, it’s not on the arc and out of frustration I parked it on 101 for MeTV and have left it there.

Also, once I get my 10’ dish in proper working order I want to see if you guys can walk me through building a 6’ mini-bud.

Thanks! :
 
scarecrovv

scarecrovv

SatelliteGuys Guru
Aug 18, 2012
130
43
newfoundland
The vertical antenna should be the one lined up with the zero skew on back of the lnbf and should line up with the vertical bar on your dish. The horizontal antenna will then be at 9 or 3 o'clock to the bar. I don't think it matters which unless you have to turn your tv upside down lol.
 
FaT Air

FaT Air

HOA Free Zone
Feb 27, 2010
6,668
914
97W 48N
the big metal bar in the back that the dish pivots side to side on?
Polar axis. Actually, the polar axis runs thru the center of the bolts, top and bottom, the dish pivots on.
Referencing the 'antennas' inside the feed throat, one will line up with the '0' mark on the back of the LNBF.
If set vertical, inline with the polar axis, and your 'channels' scan in on the wrong polarity. The '0' mark has to be placed horizontal to correct the polarity. (or vice versa) (Seems there's 'no standard' as mine have the '0' placed horizontal to 'match' published polarities. DMS242 & geosat C2)
 
R

richyrich

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 2, 2008
480
20
dead
Polar axis. Actually, the polar axis runs thru the center of the bolts, top and bottom, the dish pivots on.
Referencing the 'antennas' inside the feed throat, one will line up with the '0' mark on the back of the LNBF.
If set vertical, inline with the polar axis, and your 'channels' scan in on the wrong polarity. The '0' mark has to be placed horizontal to correct the polarity. (or vice versa) (Seems there's 'no standard' as mine have the '0' placed horizontal to 'match' published polarities. DMS242 & geosat C2)

I think the one up must point down (for the also vertical); and the one on horiz. must be pointed left (from the front of the dish); which are a 90 out problem; where the polarities are "supposed to be" which one is selected by 18 vdc or 14 vdc does this; as it only can select the two polarities by the wire tied to each (18 is only one probe; 14 is the other controlled by the voltage the receiver sends). On a dual feed; same thing; only the ports (the two plugs) go to each wire (or H/V probes) and the receiver then controls which probe is which (depending on the satellite "type" (which are 90 out from each type). The 90 out problem here can be explained by not hooking a "lock to" 18/14 vdc sw the satellite receiver selects with by using it. The marks on the lnbf's are all different ("0" V or H); but the receivers and lnbf's work the same. I wondered if I could explain it differently to make it easier to understand, but I think I said the same thing as "Fatair"; so I quoted his words; which have always been ok for me.

And yes Dee Ann; if the axis with skew right on is the vertical, up or down; AND THE DISH IS AT TRUE SOUTH/NORTH POLAR AXIS (where the mount lines up) then the decl. and axis skew for each satellite it moves to (but the mount, the lnbf; and the dish also must be all lined up there so that they all match the axis); because of the two points that do not move; and the dish then follows "arc and skew".

One way to visua;lize this is to make a mark at the top and bottom of the dish when it and the mount are at true south. Then move it to a eastern or western satellite. What you will see is that the mark moved over more to one side or the other of the dish; and the top has moved from the other side; which is the skew really!
 
Last edited:
beavs2112

beavs2112

Addicted to Legal FTA
Jan 28, 2010
814
247
London Ontario Canada
Inside the LNBF there are two little wires that I believe are the horizontal and vertical antennas. Yes? yes

Should the LNBF be mounted so that the vertical antenna is perfectly plumb, in alignment with the big metal bar in the back that the dish pivots side to side on? yes

Now if the LNBF is aligned so that it’s little antenna inside is perfectly vertical, that would mean that the horizontal antenna would be either at the 3 or 9 o’clock position depending on where the horizontal goes, does it go at 12 or 6 o’clock? yes the 2 antennas inside have to be 3 hours apart (going by the clock face rule) ie. 6&9 or 9&12 or 12&3 or 3&6.

I noticed that inside the LNBF there is a thick metal rod which is a mystery to me but it seems to be in all the C-band LNBF’s that I have so I guess it’s legit. Do I line this rod up so that it’s perfectly vertical? yes. that rod is to support the metal walls of the feedthroat to keep it round.

Is it true that the skew is changed by the dish pivoting around the arc? yes

Once I get the LNBF mystery figured out then I would like to move on to setting the elevation.

I don’t want to jump ahead because I’ll get everything all mixed up and start thrashing around in the puddle again.

I THINK I more or less know the steps to align an HH motorized KU dish but this is obviously more complicated. I’ve never gotten my 10’ dish to work right, it’s not on the arc and out of frustration I parked it on 101 for MeTV and have left it there.

Also, once I get my 10’ dish in proper working order I want to see if you guys can walk me through building a 6’ mini-bud.

Thanks! :
 
Dee_Ann

Dee_Ann

Thread Starter
Angry consumer!
May 23, 2009
3,420
286
Texas
Ok, this is all good and very helpful stuff, thank you guys !! I’m going to have to re-read it several times of course, it takes me a while to process, I’m not exactly a quick learner.

Another thing, I had a brain storm earlier. I was trying to find SES-2 by holding an LNBF in my hand in front of the 1.8m Prodelin and I had no luck at all.
I used the dishpointer site to give me a visual as to where to aim at. But a trashy, lazy neighbor, who is a trashy, lazy bum has let his yard go to complete POO, :oldmad also let some random trees grow from birds pooping seeds and they are blocking the view I used to have of other houses, garages, etc. I used to be able to line a dish up by aiming at the corner of a garage or porch or whatever. It was very helpful.
But now I can’t see those landmarks anymore. :mad:

IMG 9845


So then I thought about using a compass. I’ve got one, it’s an army compass and I do not know how to use it. Yes, I’m an idiot. :crying It’s got foldy things and little peepholes and wires and a dial that turns around with marks on it.
I guess I will have to check youtube for a video on how to use the thing. Anyway. My idea was to clamp this loooong, thin board to the dish in parallel with the dish hardware then lay the compass on the stick waaaaay back from the dish so that the metal in it won’t mess with the compass.

Once I learn how to read the compass I should be able to use this on any dish, I would think.

I also drilled some holes in the Prodelin so I can use a bungee cord to hold a tilt meter to the alignment rib to set the elevation. Prodelin says this rib is designed specifically for doing precisely this.
The holes and bungee cord were my idea.

If I can get the elevation and direction set as close to perfect as possible then it should put me almost dead on the satellite and I should be able to quickly lock on and tweak, especially when my new meter comes in.

I want to get my 10’ dish working properly, I think it’s starting to make more sense to me now. One thing I didn’t absorb and comprehend originally was how to set the inclination and declination.
I do not remember how to do that, it’s been like two years or so since I tried and even then I never got it right. I really need to learn it and get it right.

So maybe this weekend I can seek some help on the inclination/declination part. I’ll have a proper meter by Friday afternoon and that should really help me a lot.
 

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L

Lak7

SatelliteGuys Master
Pub Member / Supporter
Feb 28, 2008
5,451
7
Near Chicago, Illinois
Start at your Southern-most Sat - looks to be 99 west- it has nice full-time phat c-band transponders.
Install LNBF so that it's Zero Marking is at 12 o'clock to the Dish.
Loosen clamp on Arm and slide dish to it's highest point and snug Arm clamp.
Place Angle Finder on back of Dish (I use the ring)
Adjust the Elevation to what dishpointer.com gives you for 99 west.
Lightly loosen Mount so you can rotate entire Mount / Dish without being wobbly.
Slowly rotate entire Mount / Dish, using dishpointer.com's Green Line as a guide, and acquire signal from 99 west.
Peak signal by rotating on pole and adjusting elevation.

Once you have peaked your signal, then check / set declination.

All done without a compass or driving the Dish with Arm.

Some info...
http://www.satsig.net/polmount.htm

Calculate your locations declination
http://www.satsig.net/ssazelm.htm
 
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Dee_Ann

Dee_Ann

Thread Starter
Angry consumer!
May 23, 2009
3,420
286
Texas
It looks like the bird most close to true south from where I am is Galaxy 25 at 93.1 but from what I can see that satellite has no C-band signals.
The next closest thing would be Galaxy 3C which does have C-band on it.

I expect the readings would be the same no matter the dish being they are only a few feet apart.




Screen Shot 2014 06 05 at 112651 AM
Screen Shot 2014 06 05 at 112717 AM
Screen Shot 2014 06 05 at 112736 AM
 
Dee_Ann

Dee_Ann

Thread Starter
Angry consumer!
May 23, 2009
3,420
286
Texas
Well there’s your problem! :oops:

After meddling with things the other day I thought my satellite tuner in my PC had finally died and I had decided to buy a new STB to replace the PC.
Today I decided to take a second look at things. Oooopsy....... :oops:

IMG 9961
 
Dee_Ann

Dee_Ann

Thread Starter
Angry consumer!
May 23, 2009
3,420
286
Texas
Hopeful to sell you a new STB, I sent a local Gremlin to work on your system.....
View attachment 98083
Guess he doesn’t get paid and there is no sale? :D


LOL!!

Well I still have the same problem I was having a few weeks ago, the tuner in the PC is pretty much kaput :rip...
I does tune in MeTV on C-band but it appears to be completely ignoring any and all KU... :(
The OTA tuner card which is physically separate from the FTA card seems to be working just fine.

But I’m quite tired of the PC thing, it’s always been troublesome and I would much rather convert it into an OSX file server.

I’ve pretty much decided that I would be much better off to ditch the PC and buy one of those new Amiko A3 tuners.
I’ve been well pleased with the MicroHD and if you guys give that new tuner your seal of approval then I suppose it will be A-OK too.. :)

I’ve hated the PC from day one, it’s always been troublesome. Time to bury it and move forward into the present.
 
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77TA

77TA

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 27, 2013
562
50
Arkansas
Slight variation on my part

Wanna watch tv stb

Wanna watch 4:2:2 feed usb tuner
 
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Dee_Ann

Dee_Ann

Thread Starter
Angry consumer!
May 23, 2009
3,420
286
Texas
This 4:2:2 everyone goes on about.. I take it that it’s just used for sports, yes?
 
Titanium

Titanium

AI6US
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May 23, 2013
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Meadow Vista, Northern California
Used occasionally for sports backhauls, but with the exception of CBS network feeds, rarely used on backhauls for regular programming. The last 4:2:2, 24/7 broadcaster switched over from 4:2:2 to a standard 4:2:0 last month.

While there seems to be less and less 4:2:2 used, it is nice to have a solution when you do want to watch the programming live. Of course, most STBs can record the 4:2:2 programming and you can watch by playing back the DVR recording on any computer using VLC or any other software with the proper codec.
 
Dee_Ann

Dee_Ann

Thread Starter
Angry consumer!
May 23, 2009
3,420
286
Texas
Used occasionally for sports backhauls, but with the exception of CBS network feeds, rarely used on backhauls for regular programming. The last 4:2:2, 24/7 broadcaster switched over from 4:2:2 to a standard 4:2:0 last month.

While there seems to be less and less 4:2:2 used, it is nice to have a solution when you do want to watch the programming live. Of course, most STBs can record the 4:2:2 programming and you can watch by playing back the DVR recording on any computer using VLC or any other software with the proper codec.

So in other words, it’s something I would have no use for at all. Considering I do not watch sports.
It’s a shame they don’t use this more, everywhere. I’m a photographer and I am a stickler for photographic and video quality. I’m also a tetrachromat.
I find it distressing the aggressive compression and other butchery applied to photographs and especially video these days.
I used to b**** about video butchery loudly and frequently but it was a futile cause and I’ve given up complaining.

I can’t even publish my photos online without “Photo Hosting Corp. X” compressing the ever living snot out of it and reducing the resolution by a factor of 10.
By the time other people see my photos they are so botched up that I may as well have shot them with throw away cell phone. :mad:

I’m looking forward to the 4k revolution.
 
Titanium

Titanium

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Lifetime Supporter
May 23, 2013
7,365
8,485
Meadow Vista, Northern California
DVBS MPEG 2 4:2:2 is a way to increase resolution using increased color sampling whole using legacy technology. The resolution and picture quality is easily surpassed with S2 using similar or less bandwidth.

MPEG 4, DVBS2, h.264 4:2:2 programming is very rare and could be used to increase the PQ (Picture Quality) over regular HD formats while using same or less bandwidth. Some of these newer 4:2:2 signals cannot be received on STBs, but work well on most S2 PC cards.

There was a noticeable increase of 4:2:2 enabled encoders at NAB in 2013, but the availability appears not to have translated into an uplink trend. 4:2:2 backhauls are noticeably more rare recently. Probably due to more S2 enabled downlinks and more event facilities providing fiber services.
 
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