The NCAA and cheating from another perspective

[Will94]

The Ohio State/Jim Tressell thread is pretty much out of hand at this point. I made a comment in there about what needs to be done for some integrity to be restored to the NCAA. And let's face it, I don't know if the organization has ever had an ounce of integrity.

I've been thinking about the situation at USC. Reggie Bush apparently received improper benefits, and the school has been handed some pretty harsh penalties. Now, I am going to make an assumption that the average football star is more interested in his football career than his education or ethical reputation. Making that assumption, why shouldn't he cheat?

Bush is in New Orleans playing for the Saints, so he isn't affected by the punishment. I know that he had to give back his Heisman, but *very* few college players are in that situation. For that matter, Pete Carroll is in Seattle, so he isn't affected either. Lane Kiffin is only affected because he left Tennessee to go back to USC. The way I see it, the current setup of penalties provides almost no incentive for a player to play by the rules, and until punishments can follow players and coaches to the NFL or other schools, I don't see the cheating going anywhere.

I've got some more thoughts on the matter, but also something work-related to do, so I'll end it, for now.

 

[SandraC]

The Ohio State/Jim Tressell thread is pretty much out of hand at this point.

LOL just because people are screaming in that thread about Outlaw State like they're the only program that has ever gone through something like this? And because others are DEMANDING OSU fans come into that thread to be subject to scorn?

What's out of hand about that?


Sandra

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Lane Kiffin is only affected because he left Tennessee to go back to USC.

I can't feel sorry for Kiffin. He took the USC job during the period where the Bush investigation was ongoing and before the penalties were handed down...

 

[salsadancer7]

The Ohio State/Jim Tressell thread is pretty much out of hand at this point. I made a comment in there about what needs to be done for some integrity to be restored to the NCAA. And let's face it, I don't know if the organization has ever had an ounce of integrity.

I've been thinking about the situation at USC. Reggie Bush apparently received improper benefits, and the school has been handed some pretty harsh penalties. Now, I am going to make an assumption that the average football star is more interested in his football career than his education or ethical reputation. Making that assumption, why shouldn't he cheat?

Bush is in New Orleans playing for the Saints, so he isn't affected by the punishment. I know that he had to give back his Heisman, but *very* few college players are in that situation. For that matter, Pete Carroll is in Seattle, so he isn't affected either. Lane Kiffin is only affected because he left Tennessee to go back to USC. The way I see it, the current setup of penalties provides almost no incentive for a player to play by the rules, and until punishments can follow players and coaches to the NFL or other schools, I don't see the cheating going anywhere.

I've got some more thoughts on the matter, but also something work-related to do, so I'll end it, for now.

UNTIL the NCAA and realizes that college football is really nothing more than the NFL minor leagues...and they start funding these universities "for their troubles"...i.e., boosters, street agents and player reps.... it will not stop.

 

[Derwin0]

UNTIL the NCAA and realizes that college football is really nothing more than the NFL minor leagues...and they start funding these universities "for their troubles"...i.e., boosters, street agents and player reps.... it will not stop.

And the second they acknowledge that, bye bye tax exempt status for the school.

 

[HD MM]

What we've learned is that innocence and squeaky clean doesn't exist anymore. Every big named school has dipped their pinky toe in the water of temptation and questionable ethics at some point.

 

[Will94]

What we've learned is that innocence and squeaky clean doesn't exist anymore.

I don't know that it ever did. I've got a friend who graduated from A&M in 1974. He told me that the star football players played pool for $100 per game when he was in college. Adjust for inflation, and that is a hell of a lot of money.

I've also been thinking about a scandal that we had at A&M when I was in school. We had five or six players in the Dallas area hired by a booster over the Christmas/New Years break in December 1992.. I don't remember what the job was, but none of them ever showed up, and they were paid anyway. We were under investigation for the entire 1993 season. The only particular player that I can remember after all of these years is running star back Greg Hill. Hill left for the NFL after the '93 season, his junior year.

The NCAA came down hard on us with no TV for 1994, no bowl game either, and reduced scholarships for a few years. We had been busted in 1988 for football violations and in 1991 for basketball violations, so it was probably justified.

Our 1994 team went 10-0-1. The reduction of scholarships meant fewer freshman that season, but we still had a damn good team. 1995 was a disappointment as we were a preseason top ten team and finished 9-3, I think. The year that the punishment really hurt was 1996... FOUR YEARS AFTER THE VIOLATION.

By that point, none of the kids on the team had anything to do with the violation, but they were the ones who were effectively punished. Greg Hill, who was one of the guys responsible for the punishment was in year three with the KC Chiefs. He received no punishment at all.

I'll ask my question again. Why wouldn't he cheat? He grew up dirt poor in the slums. Someone offered him money, he took it, and it never affected him, personally, in any way whatsoever.

 

[salsadancer7]

I don't know that it ever did. I've got a friend who graduated from A&M in 1974. He told me that the star football players played pool for $100 per game when he was in college. Adjust for inflation, and that is a hell of a lot of money.

I've also been thinking about a scandal that we had at A&M when I was in school. We had five or six players in the Dallas area hired by a booster over the Christmas/New Years break in December 1992.. I don't remember what the job was, but none of them ever showed up, and they were paid anyway. We were under investigation for the entire 1993 season. The only particular player that I can remember after all of these years is running star back Greg Hill. Hill left for the NFL after the '93 season, his junior year.

The NCAA came down hard on us with no TV for 1994, no bowl game either, and reduced scholarships for a few years. We had been busted in 1988 for football violations and in 1991 for basketball violations, so it was probably justified.

Our 1994 team went 10-0-1. The reduction of scholarships meant fewer freshman that season, but we still had a damn good team. 1995 was a disappointment as we were a preseason top ten team and finished 9-3, I think. The year that the punishment really hurt was 1996... FOUR YEARS AFTER THE VIOLATION.

By that point, none of the kids on the team had anything to do with the violation, but they were the ones who were effectively punished. Greg Hill, who was one of the guys responsible for the punishment was in year three with the KC Chiefs. He received no punishment at all.

I'll ask my question again. Why wouldn't he cheat? He grew up dirt poor in the slums. Someone offered him money, he took it, and it never affected him, personally, in any way whatsoever.

I have told this story a few times and I am not ashamed of the fact that I was one of the kids that was dirt poor after my parents divorced. I went to school on a baseball scholarship. The scholarship paid for books, tuition and housing. It did not pay for my transportation throughout the city, did not pay for my trips back home, did not pay for laundry money, toiletries or an occasional movie or pizza. AND, oh yeah, I was not allowed to work ANYWHERE? So I ask, where do I get money for the things I needed that the scholarship does not and will not provide? These schools, with ALL the money they make OFF of the athletes, because NOBODY is going to profess that they come to games to see faculty play, should setup something for these student-athletes or ATLEAST let them have a part time job...something because cheating in amateur sports will never, ever stop. The horse is out of the barn, so to speak and your only hope is to get with the times and curtail it.

 

[SamCdbs]

It is important to remember that if the NCAA was turned into an openly paid minor league, there would be no baseball scholies in the first place.

The answer to college cheating belongs not with the NCAA, but with the IRS. Accepting money and not paying taxes on it is a felony. Paying money and not sending in a 1099 is a felony.

Perp walk a few NFL/NBA bound players, a few coaches, and a few boosters, and maybe an AD or college president, and you solve the problem.

 

[Will94]

Salsa,

When did you play? Schools now have a total of 11.7 scholarships for the baseball team. I am an A&M season ticket holder, and most of the kids on our team are on a 1/4 scholarship. A few have 1/2 scholarships. Between the quickly rising cost of college, the limited scholarships, and the new 'BBCOR' bats costing $250 to $300 each, college baseball is becoming a game for rich kids.
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Sam,

I think that you would be shocked by how popular college baseball has become in the South. It's never ever going to be as popular as football, or maybe basketball, but television money is starting to trickle in.

 

[salsadancer7]

Salsa,

When did you play? Schools now have a total of 11.7 scholarships for the baseball team. I am an A&M season ticket holder, and most of the kids on our team are on a 1/4 scholarship. A few have 1/2 scholarships. Between the quickly rising cost of college, the limited scholarships, and the new 'BBCOR' bats costing $250 to $300 each, college baseball is becoming a game for rich kids.
------------------------------------------
Sam,

I think that you would be shocked by how popular college baseball has become in the South. It's never ever going to be as popular as football, or maybe basketball, but television money is starting to trickle in.

I played in '84 and '85. I will not mention the school because someone found out FROM HERE, got a hold of me and stated I might give the school a bad name. Those that know me here, know the school I went to. I would appreciate to those that know.... Keep it on the down low. ....thanks!

 

[Derwin0]

I played in '84 and '85. I will not mention the school because someone found out FROM HERE, got a hold of me and stated I might give the school a bad name. Those that know me here, know the school I went to. I would appreciate to those that know.... Keep it on the down low. ....thanks!

Trust me Salsa, considering the probation they're now on, and a certain nickname someone gave them, what happened with you you wouldnt' be much of a blind eye

 

[Paul Wozniak]

I can't feel sorry for Kiffin. He took the USC job during the period where the Bush investigation was ongoing and before the penalties were handed down...

That's why he took the job, can't blame him for USC's failures now, can you? He basically has a free ride for a few years.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

That's why he took the job, can't blame him for USC's failures now, can you? He basically has a free ride for a few years.

You can't blame Kiffin, but you can question why he would take a job at a school that was clearly going to be penalized.

The NCAA infractions appeals committee has upheld all penalties and findings against USC, the university announced Thursday.

USC will lose 30 scholarships over the next three years and won't be eligible to play in this year's Pac-12 title game or a bowl game.

Meanwhile, Bowl Championship Series officials will consider whether to strip the Trojans of their 2004 title.

USC Trojans 'vehemently' disagree with appeal ruling - ESPN Los Angeles

 

[Derwin0]

Because it's a good job (with even better money). And since they're going to be on probation for a few years, then he can blame the first few years losses on that.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Nice. Go to a school where you can collect a lot of money with no expectations (or chance) of winning anything for a few years. Says a lot about Kiffin.

 

[Derwin0]

Nice. Go to a school where you can collect a lot of money with no expectations (or chance) of winning anything for a few years. Says a lot about Kiffin.

His tenure at Tennessee pretty much already said what kind of a person he is.