The three things stopping me from switching back to Dish Network.

I believe some see a visual improvement when using expensive cables over the cheap ones, simply because they want to see a visual improvement (even if it isnt there) to justify the price.
Which is more something in peoples heads over anything else. Digital is Digital, it works or it don't work. It's not like the days of Analog, where you could watch a picture even with a bad signal... you had some snow or ghosting in the picture, but it was still watchable.

Sure a better made cable is a better made cable, but that does not equate to better picture quality. (Unless you have a bad cable and data packets are being lost, but that would be mighty noticeable) :)
 
Let me see if I can remember all we could get at one time. There was Primetime 24 East, WABC (later WKRN-ABC), WXIA-NBC (later WNBC), WMBB-CBS (then WRAL-CBS, and later WSEE-CBS), Primetime 24 West, that was KPIX-CBS, KOMO-ABC, and KNBC-NBC. Then Netlink had the Denver 5, KUSA, KCNC, KMGH, KRMA, KWGN, and KDVR, and for a short while Netlink had the 'Atlantic 3' that was WPLG-ABC, WHDH-NBC, and WUSA-CBS. Of course there was the 'Superstations' WGN-Chicago, WSBK-Boston, KTVT-Dallas, KTLA-Los Angeles, WPIX-New York, and WWOR-New York. Those were the days...

Sounds about right. I remember watching the OJ Simpson car chase on KTLA before the national nets picked it up.
 
Unfortunately, Best Buy and some retailers have perpetrated the myth that expensive cables give a better picture. As long as you get a HDMI cable that is rated for the application, the cheap ones will work as well as the expensive ones. The signal is a digital signal, not an analog signal so it works or doesn’t work. More expensive cables can be more durable and last longer if you are constantly moving them. Cheap HDMI cables from places like Monoprice are just as good.
 
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Unfortunately, Best Buy and some retailers have perpetrated the myth that expensive cables give a better picture. As long as you get a HDMI cable that is rated for the application, the cheap ones will work as well as the expensive ones. The signal is a digital signal, not an analog signal so it works or doesn’t work. More expensive cables can be more durable and last longer if you are constantly moving them. Cheap HDMI cables from places like Monoprice are just as good.

The TV they sell you has very little margin, but those Monster HDMI cables and extended warranty are all profit!
 
People visually "see" what they want to see to avoid cognitive dissonance.

If you conducted a statistically significant, solid, blind test of a 6ft hdmi cable that comes with the H3 or a Monoprice cable vs high-end (high $) cables, in the end there would be no statistical difference.

Exactly. Same for any video comparisons, HD quality, mp3 bit rates, digital audio formats, etc..
In general, if you post something that doesn't include the results of a blind ABX test, I just ignore it because it's subjective & meaningless.
 
To take this a step further, insurance companies could not care less. When industry costs go up, they just pass on the cost to the consumer. In the long run, it is you and I who pay for people who are too stupid to use safety devices, smoke cigarettes, drink excessively, etc.

If one doesn't want to start a political discussion, one should not use a political analogy. :)
When costs go down..They keep the profits..so they do care
 
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Sounds about right. I remember watching the OJ Simpson car chase on KTLA before the national nets picked it up.

I can remember that very well. I think the National news was probably where I heard about it first that evening, but I remember moving the dish to Spacenet 3 TR 15 and tuning into KTLA.
 
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When costs go down..They keep the profits..so they do care

That may be the way it works in Moscow, Russia where you're from, but where I live the State Board of Insurance sets rates based on loss experience and the insurance companies are very competitive with their rate deviations.
 
I'm simply aghast that people think and HDMI cable is an HDMI cable. For one braided cable can cause slight distortion due to the "gaps between strands, not with solid copper. Improved strength through stamped connectors, not soldered. I've sat with many customers going back and forth and there is a definite improvement in clarity. I know many of you guys are extremely well schooled about a lot of things we talk about on here, but on this one, I'm standing my ground. I see the difference all the time.

Regardless, while the video is arguably better, there's no questioning the benefit of audio. Sure, places like Best Buy pass off HDMI cables for upwards of 100 bucks or better.


So AQ came in to demo their cables. The guy has a Hopper 3 with the Polk system we carry, freebie HDMI and Optical cables and plays a Youtube video of some folk singer doing a song in a night club. Starts out playing acoustic guitar, then starts singing, sounds pretty good. Then he switches to the AQ Pearl HDMI cable we have and starts over. Now you can hear people in the audience that you couldn't hear before. Then does the same with an AQ Optical cable, and now you almost make out what they're saying, hear a cook in the background ring a bell for an order up - that you couldn't hear previously, then a cell phone that wasn't there before. I did the same test on my setup and the audio was remarkably better. A cable is not just a cable
 
I'm simply aghast that people think and HDMI cable is an HDMI cable. For one braided cable can cause slight distortion due to the "gaps between strands, not with solid copper. Improved strength through stamped connectors, not soldered. I've sat with many customers going back and forth and there is a definite improvement in clarity. I know many of you guys are extremely well schooled about a lot of things we talk about on here, but on this one, I'm standing my ground. I see the difference all the time.

Regardless, while the video is arguably better, there's no questioning the benefit of audio. Sure, places like Best Buy pass off HDMI cables for upwards of 100 bucks or better.


So AQ came in to demo their cables. The guy has a Hopper 3 with the Polk system we carry, freebie HDMI and Optical cables and plays a Youtube video of some folk singer doing a song in a night club. Starts out playing acoustic guitar, then starts singing, sounds pretty good. Then he switches to the AQ Pearl HDMI cable we have and starts over. Now you can hear people in the audience that you couldn't hear before. Then does the same with an AQ Optical cable, and now you almost make out what they're saying, hear a cook in the background ring a bell for an order up - that you couldn't hear previously, then a cell phone that wasn't there before. I did the same test on my setup and the audio was remarkably better. A cable is not just a cable

So, cheap cables filter out ringing cell phones, talking audience members and employees during musical performances? Awesome!
 
I'm simply aghast that people think and HDMI cable is an HDMI cable. For one braided cable can cause slight distortion due to the "gaps between strands, not with solid copper. Improved strength through stamped connectors, not soldered. I've sat with many customers going back and forth and there is a definite improvement in clarity. I know many of you guys are extremely well schooled about a lot of things we talk about on here, but on this one, I'm standing my ground. I see the difference all the time.

Regardless, while the video is arguably better, there's no questioning the benefit of audio. Sure, places like Best Buy pass off HDMI cables for upwards of 100 bucks or better.


So AQ came in to demo their cables. The guy has a Hopper 3 with the Polk system we carry, freebie HDMI and Optical cables and plays a Youtube video of some folk singer doing a song in a night club. Starts out playing acoustic guitar, then starts singing, sounds pretty good. Then he switches to the AQ Pearl HDMI cable we have and starts over. Now you can hear people in the audience that you couldn't hear before. Then does the same with an AQ Optical cable, and now you almost make out what they're saying, hear a cook in the background ring a bell for an order up - that you couldn't hear previously, then a cell phone that wasn't there before. I did the same test on my setup and the audio was remarkably better. A cable is not just a cable

You are clearly one of the anti-science guys and have no clue how these digital signals work and are processed. I give up.
:deadhorse

For everyone else, please don't waste money on "premium" cables. Spend the extra money on a better tv and you WILL get a better picture.
 
1) No Fox anything streaming :(

2) If you put DISH HD and DIRECTV HD side by side you couldn't tell the difference. DISH has made LOTS of improvements to the HD over the past year and a half.

3) Can't help there as each area is different.
Agreed on #2 Scott. I was one the biggest posters of dissappointing HD after the 8PSK changeout, but I did post some while ago about noticing improvements, and even more channels look MUCH better and I can see detail where I could not before. In fact, Disney Channel in particular has been for a while and still is absolutely GLORIOUS PQ. Maybe because Charlie and Bob Iger seem to mutually respect each other and are on good terms :). Now, if we can get Disney XD in HD.
 
My only disappointment moving to Dish was the number of HD channels on Direct that are SD on Dish. But, the H3 made up for it.
I agree Dish needs to add the few remaining channels in SD up to HD. However, as a band-aid, you can access the HD version of a show or movie in HD using the VOD. This is how I watch Star Wars Rebels (no commercials) and Younger in HD instead of the SD TVLand linier channel and many of the movies shown on the SD premiums can be VOD'd in HD. It can take a few days after first-run premiere, but I don't mind in the least waiting a few days. Just an option for any programmin on SD linier that you really want to see in HD. I have run into a few instances when only SD was offered, but not the vast majoity.
 
As I’ve said before, I’d gladly pay for locals packages from the cities/states I want to see. Back in the C-Band days we could choose. I remember we had Denver, Raleigh NC, KTLA, on and on. Lots of fun.
We still have those high speed pursuits, and the last few have ended spectacularly. :).
 
As far as the cables go, I think both sides are right. In 30 years of tinkering (not professional) I have noticed little to no difference in picture quality with any cables. Longevity? Yes.

Audio? Can be a big difference depending on application.
 
Regarding the HDMI cable debate: I'll need to see the results of at least 3 seperate double blind tests. Enough, properly done, double blind tests have been perfromed regarding "Hi-Res audio" and higher sampling rates for audio recording for us to come to the truth, regardless of what are ears and brains THINK they hear.

I shall reserve judgment--and my wallet--until I can review at least 3, independant, properly done, unbiased (not conducted by a cable making company) double-blind tests. I haven't really searched for them, but I just wouldn't want to spend too much on cables anyway. I've found that using my same HDMI "inexpensive" cables, that each upgrade of the Dish box has resulted in better and better PQ having never changed the HDMI cable. The 722K had noticable better PQ; then the Hopper had noticably better PQ; then the HWS had noticably better PQ, just as an example I've experienced, but the difference was easy to notice and others who did not know the box was changed out said they thought I was getting better PQ for some reason, now that was interesting. This seems to suggest the "cheap" cable is doing all it can and the real culprit of PQ is the hardware and software of whatever connected device is ouputting the data, assuming the same display and no changes in the displays settings, as was the case in my upgrades over the years.

But, I still would like to see the 3 double blind tests.
 
I'm simply aghast that people think and HDMI cable is an HDMI cable. For one braided cable can cause slight distortion due to the "gaps between strands, not with solid copper. Improved strength through stamped connectors, not soldered. I've sat with many customers going back and forth and there is a definite improvement in clarity. I know many of you guys are extremely well schooled about a lot of things we talk about on here, but on this one, I'm standing my ground. I see the difference all the time.

Regardless, while the video is arguably better, there's no questioning the benefit of audio. Sure, places like Best Buy pass off HDMI cables for upwards of 100 bucks or better.


So AQ came in to demo their cables. The guy has a Hopper 3 with the Polk system we carry, freebie HDMI and Optical cables and plays a Youtube video of some folk singer doing a song in a night club. Starts out playing acoustic guitar, then starts singing, sounds pretty good. Then he switches to the AQ Pearl HDMI cable we have and starts over. Now you can hear people in the audience that you couldn't hear before. Then does the same with an AQ Optical cable, and now you almost make out what they're saying, hear a cook in the background ring a bell for an order up - that you couldn't hear previously, then a cell phone that wasn't there before. I did the same test on my setup and the audio was remarkably better. A cable is not just a cable

Hipkat, here is an article that discusses why the audio can not be selectively filtered based on the HDMI cable.

Audio
Several companies claim that their HDMI cables sound better than other HDMI cables. One in particular claims this is because there is no error correction on the audio and its cables are more likely to transmit all the data.

First of all, this is untrue. Audio over HDMI actually has more error correction than the video signal. But even if this weren't the case, it's still utter nonsense. Dolby has extensive error correction built into its codecs. In other words, if you are sending the Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD, or whatever bitstream over HDMI from your Blu-ray player, the data going into the DAC in your receiver is bit-for-bit the same as what's on the disc. DTS presumably works in the same way, though the company ignored my repeated requests for info. Cheap or expensive, the cable is irrelevant when it comes to transmitting Dolby or DTS.

If the cable is faulty or if there is some cataclysm causing data to be lost between the player and the receiver, the decoders are designed to mute instead of blasting out compromised data. There is no such thing as an audio version of "sparkles." Instead, you just get a total dropout of the audio. So if you're getting audio dropouts, it's possible it's the HDMI cable. But if you're not getting video issues as well, the problem is likely elsewhere. If the audio isn't muting, then as long as you're outputting an audio codec, you're getting exactly what's on the disc.

If you're playing a CD on a Blu-ray player, the output is PCM to the receiver. This data is packetized, just like the rest of the audio and video signal. As such, it is error-corrected. However, jitter is far more likely than with an optical or coax connection. In discussions with several audio equipment manufacturers since the original publication of this article, I've been told by all of them that the DAC in the receiver is going to have a far greater effect on the sound than the jitter in the transmission. Before you leap on that, keep in mind that the DAC has a smaller effect on the sound than the amp, the speakers, and definitely less than the room itself.

Oh, and in case that wasn't clear, the jitter is inherent in the HDMI transmission itself. The cable isn't going to have any effect.
 
I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I'm just telling you my own experiences. The demo, no one changed playback device, source, or what was actually being played, just the cables and the difference was strikingly noticeable. Explain, please, how was it when he went back to the free HDMI, those little background sounds were gone, then back to the AQ and there they were again? That's not matrixing, that's something 20 people all witnessed, errrr, heard
 
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