Troubleshooting AFN Broadcast Reception on 4.5 Meter Dish

We were able to do a little bit of tinkering today before the wind picked up too much and found theng following:

Side waveguide is receiving LHCP and rear waveguide is receiving RHCP, when we swapped the frequency to a RHCP BBC radio station the signal quality was only picked up on the rear LNB.

So now we know which polarity goes where and confirmed both LNBs are working.

Bad news is we still couldn't get a good quality signal even on a much lower C/N signal though it did increase to about 35-40 on quality.

We'll try adjusting the feedhorn depth as described by Arlo next to see if that makes the difference!

To clarify, we should loosen the set screw on the larger ring plate and move the cylinder in towards the dish correct? That way it sticks out more from the larger rings?
 
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On a side-line: what is the history of the dish?
Did it function properly before, or is it built together recently?
In the latter case: has it been stringtested (to check if the dish face is perfectly flat)?
Focal distance calculated, and checked?

Another side-line: I've once seen a situation mentioned, where a dish was aimed at a side-lobe of the signal.
That could be in elevation, or in azimuth, I guess.
So, how did you check elevation and azimuth?
(I tried to look up the time tomorrow that the sun is exactly at the same azimuth as 5E (where SES-5 is), but alas Satellite Look Angle Calculator does not calculate this for LAT < 4 degrees, it seems....)

Just thinking out loud, what could be the matter....

Greetz,
A33
 
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On a side-line: what is the history of the dish?
Did it function properly before, or is it built together recently?
In the latter case: has it been stringtested (to check if the dish face is perfectly flat)?
Focal distance calculated, and checked?

Another side-line: I've once seen a situation mentioned, where a dish was aimed at a side-lobe of the signal.
That could be in elevation, or in azimuth, I guess.
So, how did you check elevation and azimuth?
(I tried to look up the time tomorrow that the sun is exactly at the same azimuth as 5E (where SES-5 is), but alas Satellite Look Angle Calculator does not calculate this for LAT < 4 degrees, it seems....)

Just thinking out loud, what could be the matter....

Greetz,
A33

Appreciate the input!

The dish was crate shipped out to us and we assembled it in place. We haven't conducted a string test as the top of the dish is a bit hard to access but we'll look at doing that tomorrow. We're looking for 0-1/4" between the strings for C-band reception right? If the dish doesn't pass is there anything we can do to correct it?

The focal distance we're using is based on the manufacturer's specifications (61.95") per the below link. Is this trustworthy or would you recommend calculating it based on real-world measurements of our dish? Also to add on, from what two points is the focal distance measured? Our feedhorn doesn't have any markings so it's been hard to set accurately.


The azimuth and elevation were calculated using www.dishpointer.com and then aligned using an analog compass and inclinometer. We then made small corrections left and right and then up and down to try and find the best quality. Admittedly, the azimuth in particular for our max quality is about 8-10 degrees off from what the compass says but we just attributed this to measurement error.

Edit: Here is the compass and inclinometer we are using for aiming:
 
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The dish was crate shipped out to us and we assembled it in place. We haven't conducted a string test as the top of the dish is a bit hard to access but we'll look at doing that tomorrow. We're looking for 0-1/4" between the strings for C-band reception right? If the dish doesn't pass is there anything we can do to correct it?

The focal distance we're using is based on the manufacturer's specifications (61.95") per the below link. Is this trustworthy or would you recommend calculating it based on real-world measurements of our dish? Also to add on, from what two points is the focal distance measured? Our feedhorn doesn't have any markings so it's been hard to set accurately.

Looking at the assembly video, it looks like stringtesting is not mentioned as a separate step. It looks like they trust the construction so much, that it (normally) wouldn't be needed.
If it is difficult to do actual stringtesting, I would at least try to do visual checks if the dish rim looks completely flat: look along the rim, if some part of the rim seems to stick out a bit, or seems to be inward a bit. That, of course, from various looking positions.
When you then have no doubts about the dish face flatness, this visual check might be enough.

For the focal distance in the specs: it is a reputable manifacturer, I think?
A bit of trying with the feedhorn distance (as mentioned earlier) is always good, though.
Are the arms for the LNB of fixed length, or somewhat adjustable?
I'm afraid I know nothing about the placement of dielectricums, for circular LNBs....


For calculating/checking focal length: You need width of the dish (width measured without the rim), an depth at the center of the dish (again: without the height of the rim).
Or, when the center of the dish is difficult to reach, see:


The azimuth and elevation were calculated using www.dishpointer.com and then aligned using an analog compass and inclinometer. We then made small corrections left and right and then up and down to try and find the best quality. Admittedly, the azimuth in particular for our max quality is about 8-10 degrees off from what the compass says but we just attributed this to measurement error.
BTW. Dishpointer says ses-5 is at 5.2E; kingofsat.net says it is at 5.0E
For 5.0E, elevation for your location (I looked it up, approximately) would be 43.86; azimuth 266.8
I don't know if this elevation difference is a problem on such big dishes, I've no experience with them.
(0.2 degrees on a 4.5 meter dish means 16 millimeters difference total, 8 millimeter difference on the top, and 8 millimeters on the bottom)

When we cannot get azimuth directions from the sun (as I would normally do, with satellite-calculations.com), I don't know what else to do, except try and sweep the sky (when at elevation 43.9).

Greetz,
A33
 
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Looking at the assembly video, it looks like stringtesting is not mentioned as a separate step. It looks like they trust the construction so much, that it (normally) wouldn't be needed.
If it is difficult to do actual stringtesting, I would at least try to do visual checks if the dish rim looks completely flat: look along the rim, if some part of the rim seems to stick out a bit, or seems to be inward a bit. That, of course, from various looking positions.
When you then have no doubts about the dish face flatness, this visual check might be enough.

For the focal distance in the specs: it is a reputable manifacturer, I think?
A bit of trying with the feedhorn distance (as mentioned earlier) is always good, though.
Are the arms for the LNB of fixed length, or somewhat adjustable?
I'm afraid I know nothing about the placement of dielectricums, for circular LNBs....


For calculating/checking focal length: You need width of the dish (width measured without the rim), an depth at the center of the dish (again: without the height of the rim).
Or, when the center of the dish is difficult to reach, see:



BTW. Dishpointer says ses-5 is at 5.2E; kingofsat.net says it is at 5.0E
For 5.0E, elevation for your location (I looked it up, approximately) would be 43.86; azimuth 266.8
I don't know if this elevation difference is a problem on such big dishes, I've no experience with them.
(0.2 degrees on a 4.5 meter dish means 16 millimeters difference total, 8 millimeter difference on the top, and 8 millimeters on the bottom)

When we cannot get azimuth directions from the sun (as I would normally do, with satellite-calculations.com), I don't know what else to do, except try and sweep the sky (when at elevation 43.9).

Greetz,
A33
We'll take a look at flatness and see if we can't identify anything that looks off. The dish itself seems to be high quality with all galvanized steel and powdered coated aluminum parts that fit together very snugly. Stands to reason that the focal distance they provide is probably accurate but I'll probably double-check that as well just to be sure.

A lower elevation makes sense because that's where we've seen more success, once we get a good elevation, sweeping it left and right and settling on the highest quality has been our approach thus far but no guarantees we aren't biting off on a side lobe.

Right now my money is on an improper fd ratio or focal distance setting. My hope is that we can tinker around with that to improve the quality. Unfortunately, getting to the feedhorn on a 14-foot prime focus dish is not the easiest thing...
 
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We were able to do a little bit of tinkering today before the wind picked up too much and found theng following:

Side waveguide is receiving LHCP and rear waveguide is receiving RHCP, when we swapped the frequency to a RHCP BBC radio station the signal quality was only picked up on the rear LNB.

So now we know which polarity goes where and confirmed both LNBs are working.

Bad news is we still couldn't get a good quality signal even on a much lower C/N signal though it did increase to about 35-40 on quality.

We'll try adjusting the feedhorn depth as described by Arlo next to see if that makes the difference!

To clarify, we should loosen the set screw on the larger ring plate and move the cylinder in towards the dish correct? That way it sticks out more from the larger rings?
Is the dielectric plate installed 45 degrees between the two waveguide ports or is it rotated 90 degrees and not installed between the two waveguide ports?

Is there a guide in the feedhorn throat for the proper dielectric plate placement and depth? The slab may be inserted in the wrong orientation and/or to an incorrect depth into the throat and causing reverse polarity and /or signal attenuation.
 
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Is the dielectric plate installed 45 degrees between the two waveguide ports or is it rotated 90 degrees and not installed between the two waveguide ports?

Is there a guide in the feedhorn throat for the proper dielectric plate placement and depth? The slab may be inserted in the wrong orientation and/or to an incorrect depth into the throat and causing reverse polarity and /or signal attenuation.

Good points!
See this photo for 'guides' of the dielectricum: https://www.sat4all.com/forums/uploads/monthly_07_2013/post-30993-0-30779000-1373822157.jpg
 
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The plate appears to be placed about 45 degrees between the two waveguide ports. The three HS-200 feedhorns we have all have the plate in the same position and all came pre-assembled this way. No guides for the plate are visible.

We do have one additional feedhorn with a slightly lower noise temperature of 17K which also has a dielectric plate inserted and has guides for it confirming it's in the right spot. This one uses voltage switching to swap between polarities rather than having two separate waveguides. I'm going to try to put that on tomorrow and see if it makes any difference.

As an aside, I think I discovered why we can't receive any quality on NSS-12. The below sheet lists the netID as 8 but it appears that the 4095 Mhz signal is actually carried on global transponder 10. as shown on the next link. When we swap the feedhorns tomorrow I'm going to try and update the netID to see if correcting the transponder allows our decoder to receive any signal quality.



Thanks as always for your inputs, I think we're getting closer to a solution as we narrow down the variables!
 
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I just have hands on experience. Since most received transponders in the CONUS are linear. Circular polarization for me is just when experimenting with the fringe satellites over the Atlantic.

But. I see a couple of things that lit up the old light bulb. Your installer got you a signal. Installed the dish the way it was boxed up. Bolted everything up and tuned it. Which is all good. And the Harvard ortho is top notch.

The one LNB getting better signal than the other. Why not concentrate on the weaker polarization by turning the feed a little. In and out. Tiny adjustments make big differences. And of course the hardware that fixes position in the scalar should never be tightened to the point it crushes the feed assy. Fine point Sharpie pens are a great thing to have here.
Perhaps masking tape to move your reference marks around.

I could almost guarantee your dish wasn't assembeld at the factory and support arm lengths tweaked for best scalar position. With those facts. And if you were to at least look at other examples in an Internet search. Some feeds are more close to the scalar plane facing the dish. And others do in fact exhibit my so called "stick out" (I believe I've been MIG welding a bit much recently).
But. With fixed geometry. As it stands. Your only option is to adjust your Harvard feed assembly.

If it clarifies anything. And it's worth a go. The 3 support arms that the plate the scalar is attached to.
And I have never had a Harvard in my hands. Is the scalar bolted to the support arm plate?
And without messing any current adjustment up. If at all possible. How far in and out is the Harvard feed capable of moving in and out of the scalar?
Or is that of a fixed position and the feed can only be rotated CW/CCW?

If in fact the feed is able to be moved in and out of the scalar ring. And you do have room to insert the feed further into the scalar. But at its current position you have the best signal you can possible receive.
Moving the scalar mount so that the support arms are on the bottom of it instead of on top....might.....open up a little more dish edge illumination.
Arms_Illustrated.JPG
And if I may. It could be just the way the photo was taken. It appears as if your feed throat with blue cover is a bit canted in the scalar. If it is so. A suggestion would be to get it centered so the throat is pointing just as close to the center of the dish parabola as humanly possible. Hence my paint can lid/dowel rod trik.
And then. Move the dish on its mount to gain the best signal. Finalizing with miniscule feed adjustments.

My dish is close to yours in size. But mine is fiberglass and was from the 80's. I can say. It gets weak transponders very well. At the cost of time spent with adjustments. And although my LNBF is of the linear variety. It will get circular polarized transponders without inserting the dielectric plate at all. Of course inserting it makes a huge signal increase.
(An afterthought. What If you were to break the glue on the plate and try moving it around a touch while watching sig. strengths?)
Also. I didn't read if yours was fixed or motorized with a polar mount. But time spent. A lot of time. Allows me to sweep an arc with just about the same sensitivity and pulling or pushing on the dish rim proves it.

I'll let you play around if you wish. Pretty sure that your dish installer got it setup and tweaked for best signal. But not particularly on fringe footprint reception like you describe.

Interested in what you find out. Seriously.
 
I just have hands on experience. Since most received transponders in the CONUS are linear. Circular polarization for me is just when experimenting with the fringe satellites over the Atlantic.

But. I see a couple of things that lit up the old light bulb. Your installer got you a signal. Installed the dish the way it was boxed up. Bolted everything up and tuned it. Which is all good. And the Harvard ortho is top notch.

The one LNB getting better signal than the other. Why not concentrate on the weaker polarization by turning the feed a little. In and out. Tiny adjustments make big differences. And of course the hardware that fixes position in the scalar should never be tightened to the point it crushes the feed assy. Fine point Sharpie pens are a great thing to have here.
Perhaps masking tape to move your reference marks around.

I could almost guarantee your dish wasn't assembeld at the factory and support arm lengths tweaked for best scalar position. With those facts. And if you were to at least look at other examples in an Internet search. Some feeds are more close to the scalar plane facing the dish. And others do in fact exhibit my so called "stick out" (I believe I've been MIG welding a bit much recently).
But. With fixed geometry. As it stands. Your only option is to adjust your Harvard feed assembly.

If it clarifies anything. And it's worth a go. The 3 support arms that the plate the scalar is attached to.
And I have never had a Harvard in my hands. Is the scalar bolted to the support arm plate?
And without messing any current adjustment up. If at all possible. How far in and out is the Harvard feed capable of moving in and out of the scalar?
Or is that of a fixed position and the feed can only be rotated CW/CCW?

If in fact the feed is able to be moved in and out of the scalar ring. And you do have room to insert the feed further into the scalar. But at its current position you have the best signal you can possible receive.
Moving the scalar mount so that the support arms are on the bottom of it instead of on top....might.....open up a little more dish edge illumination.
View attachment 164346
And if I may. It could be just the way the photo was taken. It appears as if your feed throat with blue cover is a bit canted in the scalar. If it is so. A suggestion would be to get it centered so the throat is pointing just as close to the center of the dish parabola as humanly possible. Hence my paint can lid/dowel rod trik.
And then. Move the dish on its mount to gain the best signal. Finalizing with miniscule feed adjustments.

My dish is close to yours in size. But mine is fiberglass and was from the 80's. I can say. It gets weak transponders very well. At the cost of time spent with adjustments. And although my LNBF is of the linear variety. It will get circular polarized transponders without inserting the dielectric plate at all. Of course inserting it makes a huge signal increase.
(An afterthought. What If you were to break the glue on the plate and try moving it around a touch while watching sig. strengths?)
Also. I didn't read if yours was fixed or motorized with a polar mount. But time spent. A lot of time. Allows me to sweep an arc with just about the same sensitivity and pulling or pushing on the dish rim proves it.

I'll let you play around if you wish. Pretty sure that your dish installer got it setup and tweaked for best signal. But not particularly on fringe footprint reception like you describe.

Interested in what you find out. Seriously.
Thinking back to when I installed the feed assembly I think the arms might have only fit on top but I'll see if I cant mount them on the bottom of that plate to get it a bit further. The focal distance measurement we got today was just shy of the 61.95 inches so that will probably get it closer to the correct value. The scalar ring is bolted to the support arm plate and is effectively fixed there. I could use spacers to move it closer to the dish but I don't see any way to get it further (minus moving the support arm mounting point like you mentioned).

The feedhorn itself does both slide in/out and twist within the scalar ring mount. We tried swapping in another feedhorn assembly that had fd ratio settings on it but had no luck. We'll throw the HS-200 back on tomorrow and continue to see if moving the feedhorn in and out improves the signal. It is most likely a little misaligned so I'll work to get it more square to the dish as well.

As far as the support arms go I don't see any way to adjust them as they are solid aluminum poles bolted to the dish frame. Could I be missing something here? For what its worth, measurements from the scalar ring to the dish rim matched in 3 places so I think its pretty well centered.
 
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When we point and attempt to fine-tune the dish for SES-5 we are able to get a signal level of approximately 76-77 and an unstable lock and signal quality of 5-22 which is enough to receive time and the guide but no video/audio.

And still another thought:
I'm wondering when a frequency has somehow drifted a bit, if that would give time and guide, but no video/audio?
Could you try, with such a marginal quality signal, if there might be improvement when setting the LOF to 5155 (instead of 5150), if quality level increases?
Same test for LOF 5145?

Just checking all kinds of possibilities...

Greetz,
A33
 
I just have hands on experience. Since most received transponders in the CONUS are linear. Circular polarization for me is just when experimenting with the fringe satellites over the Atlantic.

But. I see a couple of things that lit up the old light bulb. Your installer got you a signal. Installed the dish the way it was boxed up. Bolted everything up and tuned it. Which is all good. And the Harvard ortho is top notch.

The one LNB getting better signal than the other. Why not concentrate on the weaker polarization by turning the feed a little. In and out. Tiny adjustments make big differences. And of course the hardware that fixes position in the scalar should never be tightened to the point it crushes the feed assy. Fine point Sharpie pens are a great thing to have here.
Perhaps masking tape to move your reference marks around.

I could almost guarantee your dish wasn't assembeld at the factory and support arm lengths tweaked for best scalar position. With those facts. And if you were to at least look at other examples in an Internet search. Some feeds are more close to the scalar plane facing the dish. And others do in fact exhibit my so called "stick out" (I believe I've been MIG welding a bit much recently).
But. With fixed geometry. As it stands. Your only option is to adjust your Harvard feed assembly.

If it clarifies anything. And it's worth a go. The 3 support arms that the plate the scalar is attached to.
Thinking back to when I installed the feed assembly I think the arms might have only fit on top but I'll see if I cant mount them on the bottom of that plate to get it a bit further. The focal distance measurement we got today was just shy of the 61.95 inches so that will probably get it closer to the correct value. The scalar ring is bolted to the support arm plate and is effectively fixed there. I could use spacers to move it closer to the dish but I don't see any way to get it further (minus moving the support arm mounting point like you mentioned).

The feedhorn itself does both slide in/out and twist within the scalar ring mount. We tried swapping in another feedhorn assembly that had fd ratio settings on it but had no luck. We'll throw the HS-200 back on tomorrow and continue to see if moving the feedhorn in and out improves the signal. It is most likely a little misaligned so I'll work to get it more square to the dish as well.

As far as the support arms go I don't see any way to adjust them as they are solid aluminum poles bolted to the dish frame. Could I be missing something here? For what its worth, measurements from the scalar ring to the dish rim matched in 3 places so I think its pretty well centered.
This all is just in an experimenters world mind you. My dish has a robust buttonhook feed mount and gives me a ton of adjustments. So support arm guys really don't have that advantage. The 2 aluminium pipes on the dish center mount have been changed to thick wall and so it is very sturdy.

But. Back to you. Have not see your entire dish front. If trimming the upper support brace lengths at the flattened section of them, close to the bolt holes, a touch. So that they could fit on the bottom of the plate w/o interfering with the scalar is not an option. Would spacing the braces from the dish face be an option? Perhaps 5-10 mm?
That would be far enough to let you see if any signal signal increase is to be had. Even IF .2-.3 dB.
But we haven't established if your feed assembly can be inserted deeper in the scalar. To compensate for your current focus you have for strongest signal. You move the scalar away from the dish front, so you must move the feed throat an equal distance closer to to regain focus and signal strength. Make sense?
The f/D markings surely will get you in the ballpark. And is how my initial setup was. Adhering to all of the calcs.
End results differed after simply coming to the conclusion that my signals and finding transponders on different satellites sucked.
I could throw in an example. On 103 W there were a few transponders that gave me signals of 9.5-10.3 dB at most.
That was when initially setting up the dish from being mothballed for years. Measurements and calculations. placing everything where it should be with scalar at the correct distance from the dish and feed markings at the right place.
Took it for granted for months that it is-what-it-is. I just looked and signals on the same transponders are bouncing between an honest 15.1-15.3 dB.
So a few hours here and there of tweaks paid off with phenomenal results.
Mind you. One Enigma2 image returns different baseline signal strengths. It's in the software programming.
Was taking the time to be a different drummer and veer from the cut in stone calculations worth it? Hellyeah!
On a dish from the 80's.

a33 makes a great point. If using default satellites.xml files where a transponder is listed at....oh....4020 MHz.
Scanning it using the LNB local oscillator frequency of 5150 MHz (5.150 GHz). Could give a lower signal if the automatic frequency control of the electronics was at its limits.
A blindscan will tell you if that may be the fact, ignoring the frequencies and symbol rates in the .xml file.
The 4020 MHz may report as much as several Megahertz off. 4016, 4018, 4019. But I rarely see it drift above.

Norsat should have the drift to a minimum. But if you wanted to try. Like a33 says. Although keep the setting lower.
Like 1,2 MHz max.
Of course also if you did a manual scan using the .xml file. And suspect that signal could be a touch better.
You could download the channel list in an editor. Edit the transponder frequency. And blow it back in the receiver.
I often edit my satellites.xml file to show the actual blindscan frequencies and symbol rates. Even the modulation and stuff. Or just copy/paste the blindscan results into the file.

....bla bla bla. i know. "won't this guy shut-up?!!!"
 
Didn't hear back yet.
Looking over things that may be a bit "blurry" or fuzzy.
The very end of the feed throat will always be tuned for highest signal strength.
Just like a camera with a telephoto lens and lens hood. On a tripod the lens would be in sharp focus on the subject and never move at all. If you move the camera forward or back. Things get blurry.
But the lens hood could be moved, taken off. Focus always stays the same. Make sense?
My suggestion was to try to move the scalar. And because the feed is bolted to it.
The feed focus would always need to be returned to where it previously was.
And yeah. Just the slightest movement of the feed will make a huge difference in signal. That's the "Fun" part. Hah!!
Once you determine the best signal and hopefully Sharpie the position. Skew. If you find you have a ton of signal on an H tp . And not so much on a V tp.
Take a few thing into account. It might be that the weaker tp is in fact on the fringe of your footprint for it.
Look at the charts.
Hopefully you have an H & V tp. that are in the same footprint. You need to turn it CW/CCW a bit.
It can be a delicate dance when you balance signal strengths. Of course aiming the dish at zenith and setting the feed at its 0 reference is best. If you can. But you will get to the point where both signal came in pretty much the same strength. Final tweak, tiny movements of the feed in/out. And do not crush the feed tube with the set screws.
But it still takes a bit of time tweaking.
And hopefully your feed always points as close to the center of the dish as you can get it. Always. Don't "eclipse" it and lose a foot off of an edge and skim off the other edge if that's what give best signal. Move The Dish. Get the feed aimed at the center of the dish.

On a side note. I peed around with circular sats last night. First time. My guide for using the dielectric plate showed how it was to be inserted. Funny thing. I got no signal at all. The paperwork said I'd lose 3 dB on linear sats.
Noticed there was an alternate pair of slots in the feed throat placed 90 degrees from the suggested ones. I tried the plate in them. Lost a true 3 dB on my linear sats. for sure.
But circular sats I could receive at, oh lets say, 6-8 dB. Blew in at 12-14 db.
First time for everything. A chunk of an insulator doing THAT???
 
Good morning,

I've attached photos of the feed horn, a shot down the waveguide with a view of the dielectric plate, and a shot of the assembly on the mounting arms of the dish. Of note, the sideways or lower LNB is the one we've had success getting some quality from.
Based on the photo, that dielectric does not seem to be at 45 degrees, more like 30 or 60 degrees compared to the opening we see in the back. That might be part of the problem

I checked the listings in Lyngsat and the coverage maps and that should be fairly easy reception in theory (I know, reality might be quite different). I am not at all familiar with that Cisco receiver, but it might be helpful to have a basic FTA receiver to use for the setup and as a signal meter, something that can do DVB-S2 and blind scan

basicaly on SES5 you are in the 38dB contour and the signal needs at least 6.6 dB SNR. With NSS12, AFN is on Global beam and your approximate location is right in the middle, which is helpful. Contour of 36dB, but you need only 1 dB of SNR thanks to the very forgiving modulation and FEC on that satellite. In theory, those should be reasonably easy even with a 10ft dish, unless the AFN signal is unusually weak - or the maps are overly optimistic (and NSS 12 is probably an old bird)

on NSS12 it might be helpful to try to tune to other transponders like the BFBS or some of the Ethiopian channels, and see if you're able to get those

on SES5, there are a few Nigerian channels with lower SNR requirements that should be easier to receive, see if you can get those and try to fine tune with those first

one last thing - again I am not familiar with that receiver, but did you check the LNB voltage setting - I'm thinking it should be 18V for those LNBs
 
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Hello all,

Sorry for the delay, lots of bad weather here has made it difficult to work on the dish but we were able to do a couple of days of tinkering with unfortunately unsuccessful results.

We spent most of our time adjusting the scalar ring and feedhorn distances but saw no real change in the signal quality. All our adjustments were on SES5 and so tomorrow we are going to attempt again but this time on NSS12 to see if the lower required SNR gives us better results with adjustments. We used broomsticks and tape measures to ensure that the feedhorn was centered in the dish, pointing at the center, and set to the correct focal distance before making minor adjustments from there. The downside is that our dish has to be turned to make feedhorn adjustments which means realigning it after each adjustment which of course introduces additional variables. That said, we were able to get back to the original signal quality each time with sharpie marks for reference.

arlo,
Really appreciate the explanations, I thik the camera analgey is most helpful in deciphering the purpose of the feedhorn and scalar ring. Prior to getting into this and reading thewse posts I didn't even realize the two were truley seperate parts with differing purposes!

Brct203,
Thanks for your reply! Unfortunately we only have access to these Cisco recievers but we do have have three of them and have tried all with similar results. They seem to be picking up what little signal we recieve alright but who knows if that might be the issue.

NSS12 and some of the non-AFN channels is our next goal just to see if we can get and signal quality from the satellite since on paper it should give us a stronger signal in addition to the lower required SNR. I'll let you know how that goes!

One last thing, I did discover that one of the three NORSAT LNBs we have is not an 8520 but actually a 3220 which is one of their PLL models rather than the DRO 8250 models. Not super clear on the difference between the two types but should we try to use the 3220 as our primary LNB or is the 8520 better?

Thanks as always for your help!
 
Some good news for you all today, we were able to get a picture off NSS-12! I suspect swapping the newer 3220 LNB over to the LHCP slot is what allowed us to receive it at about 48-52 quality. Audio and video came through perfectly clear it was great!

Unfortunately as the wind picked up the quality lost stability and is now bouncing between 0 and 40 but tomorrow we'll work to get better aiming and tighten everything up to be less susceptible to the wind.

Really happy to see it working and at least know we are in fact capable of receiving the broadcast!
 
And now for the bad news...

A few hours after our successful signal was received we went back to an unstable signal. I've included a video below to help show what's happening. The peak signal quality is still hitting the same numbers we've seen in the high-40s and low-50s but it cuts out often and now the signal level has dropped to 0. We tried moving the dish around thinking maybe strong winds had knocked the alignment out but that had no effect. Moving the feedhorn also had no effect.

I thought maybe the LNB was the issue but the same thing happens when I tune a RHCP signal on the other LNB.

If anyone has any ideas on why this might be happening I'd definitely appreciate the assistance!
 

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And now for the bad news...

A few hours after our successful signal was received we went back to an unstable signal. I've included a video below to help show what's happening. The peak signal quality is still hitting the same numbers we've seen in the high-40s and low-50s but it cuts out often and now the signal level has dropped to 0. We tried moving the dish around thinking maybe strong winds had knocked the alignment out but that had no effect. Moving the feedhorn also had no effect.

I thought maybe the LNB was the issue but the same thing happens when I tune a RHCP signal on the other LNB.

If anyone has any ideas on why this might be happening I'd definitely appreciate the assistance!
In the video your signal quality goes from 56 to 0. Perhaps you have a cable/connector problem. Have you tried a different cable?
 
I'm a bit worried about the signal level being constantly zero.

From what I know (but I don't know everything!), receivers handle this two ways:
1. They indicate a signal level, when the LNB is connected and there is current flowing (but LNB aimed at nothing, and receiving nothing);
2. They only indicate a signal level, only when there is a "lock" on a transponder.
(I don't know, if there might even be other ways...?)

From your earlier posts, it looked like your receiver is of the first type? Do you remember how the signal level was?
If so, indeed cable/connections should be checked! (as also stecle advised.)

Greetz,
A33
 
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Any chance you have tried changing the angle of the dielectric slab in the throat?
A little at a time to see what happens? And the depth that it sits in the throat?

This is interesting. Especially post #5

Slab

And a few tips on depolarizer tweaking.

Slabification and such


For one reason or another. You should have a signal blasting in on the receiver.