two dish, DVR522, and Internet on one cable?

[trainn99]

Hi -

(I did try to search the forum, but most of the posts were using too technical lingo! If I need to modify my searches, please let me know what terms I shold be looking for... thanks)

I just bought a house that it 3 years old. It is pre-wired, and the central location for all the wires is in the attic.

the Dishnetwork installers were going to drill about 5 holes to hook up the satellite system! I am asking for the international programming PLUS america's top 120.

There will be two dishes on the roof, with (i think) two cables each.

I'm trying to hook up two rooms in the house, one of which Cable Internet.

Is it possible to take advantage of the existing wiring without having to drill so many holes?

I'm told by the installers that there will be a cable "coming back" from the reciever to the second room, which has the internet.

What are my options? What id the receiver goes in the room ith internet, would that make a difference?

 

[SimpleSimon]

Welcome aboard!

It's hard to talk about this stuff without techie terms - after all, it IS rocket science!

Without knowing which internationals you want, whether you're getting local channels, and where you are, I can't determine which birds (satellites) you're going to need, nor the type of outdoor equipment.

I can't see 5 holes offhand, but one thing for sure, in their own best interest, installers will drill the absolute fewest holes they can.

The 522 requires 2 feeds from the dishes - one for each tuner. These would come through the same hole. The backfeed for the 2nd room can probably be done using diplexers - but the locations may not lend themselves to that. I'm assuming outside wiring for all this. Wallfishing and other crap makes it much worse, and usually costs extra.

Most installers will NOT touch cable wiring - especially if it's in use for cable internet. It's too easy to screw things up. Plus, the existing house cable may not be suitable for satellite use. If you were NOT connected to the cable system, the cable could be used to feed the signal for TV2, but because that wiring IS in use, that's pretty much a no-go.

 

[trainn99]

using same cable for internet and dish?

Thanks for your reply i appreciate it

is it possible to use the same cable (physical wire) for Internet and satellite signals?

what I'm thinking of doing is the following:
1. cable(s) from dish to attic
2. use a diplexer (combine signals from two dishes to one?!) and use existing cable (coaxial?) from attic to living room TV, where the DVR/receiver is.
3. use another diplexer to send signal FROM receiver back to attic using the very same coaxial cable ... (not even sure if that's possible?)
4. use a yet another dixplexr to take that signal (the feedback signal) and combine it to the Internet traffic and send it to the bedroom, where the second TV is, along with my Internet cable modem... currently, I have the diplexer combining and splitting the cable and internet signals... so i think that would work for Dish signals? The satellite installers told me that the dish frequency is "in the middle" so it won't work .. whatever that means!


at this day and age, i don't think there is a need to run any new wiring .. I'd think someone already have a solution .. i just can't get my hands on it yet ..

does that making sense? Or should I stop using my medical marijuana?

thanks

 

[SimpleSimon]

OK. A single RG-6 that's rated to 2150MHz can PHYSICALLY carry 2 tuners worth of satellite feed 1450-2150MHz), cable TV (50-950MHz) and cable internet (40MHz - give or take) all at once. As long as it's good wire, THAT's not the problem.

The problem is in all the other surrounding equipment, and what it's all tied to.

Your house wire is hooked to the cable system. They will NOT like you backfeeding a TV signal through it. Do you really want the whole neighborhood watching what you're watching on channel 3 or 4? They would also frown on you sending satellite feed that way - but that's easy to break out using diplexers.

Now if you're going to spend the time to map out the existing house wiring so you know where to place them, and also to remove any existing splitters, that's different. Satellite feeds do NOT like splitters - not at all. Then of course, the existing wiring might be using a splitter in a place that will simply prevent any reasonable use of the wire for satellite feed.

I've used diplexers often to get a TV2 feed closer to the room it needs to be - but I will only do it with MY wire. If the customer wants me to use existing wire that I can not easily (5 minutes) check out, then I'm going to charge them for my time - even if it turns out the house wire won't work. Hey, time is money.

If you know how to set it up properly yourself, that's great. I have no problem when a customer tells me what he's got and how he wants it. It's trivial to tell if he knows his stuff or not. And if he's saved me some time, I'll give it back to him in the form of extra work elsewhere in the house, or leave him some high-quality raw cable or whatever.

If you're willing to pay for the 1-2 hours of extra work, that's great, too.

Now let's go back to putting both tuner feeds on the same cable. The hardware (DPP44 plus a DPP Separator) required to do it costs over $200. That's NOT included in anything less than a FOUR bird setup.

P.S. Your 2 dishes on the roof is not how the feed comes down. A switch is put up there to allow the receiver to select one of the 3 birds. You still haven't told me where you are or what programming you're going to get, so I'm not going near the dish details any more.

You've also not said anything about why you care about it. I'll bet you just don't want the wire outside the house. Hey - no problem, just pay me for the extra time and materials.

See, this chit really IS rocket science.

Bottom line: I was getting $60 for a basic 1-tuner install. Takes about 2 hours - IF everything goes perfectly, which it never does. Think I'm getting rich? Think again. Travel time. Gas. Insurance (truck and liability). Tools. Cable. Connectors. Wire clamps. Lag screws. Wallplates. Grounding blocks & wire. Diplexers. And of course, NO employer benefits. Therefore, anything beyond basic is an upcharge.

 

[trainn99]

Hi Simon -

well ... it's not so simple i guess

It looks like I'm just gonna have them use the DPP44 to split/combine signals so there are no wires outside the house .. and they'll just have to put a new wire coming from the attic to the bedroom (through the cabinet) which won't be as bad...

I was just hoping to avoid making holes and having wires outside the house .. but it looks like there is no way to have the cable coming from the attic to the bedroom to carry both the satellite and the Cable Internet signals ...

thanks for all your help..

by the way, I'm getting the Arabic package.

thanks again ... truly appreciated

 

[SimpleSimon]

No - it's not that there's no way, it's just the amount of work and money involved.

If you're willing to pay for a DPP44, you're probably willing to pay the rest of the tab to have it done the way you want.

The big unknown is whether you can grab feeds that are already in the wall and are able to be isolated from splitters and the cable internet line.

In other words, can you find both ends of the single feed from where you want the 522? Remember - no splitters allowed. If so, then NO more wire is needed to THAT location. All necessary signals can be placed on it via the DPP44, DPP Separator, and a pair of diplexers. Someday I'm actually going to draw a diagram for it, but for the moment, just know it can be done.

We'll run a line from the DPP44 to the diplexer on the end of the above cable. So much for the satellite side of the install.

Now, we've got TV2 output from the 522 sitting in the attic. We're getting closer! Now, a signal combiner of the "right" type is needed between the cable from outside, the TV2 feed, and the line to the other room. That could get a little sticky, but is possible. Hardest part is determining the "right" combiner.

There IS an alternative that may fit your needs, and that's a wireless video sender.

They run in the same 2.4GHz band as wireless phones, WiFi networking, and such. This means you might run into interference problems. However, if it works, things just got very simple. No diplexers. Just isolate the straight shot from DPP44 to the 522. 522 TV2 output to the wireless video sender, and the w-vid receiver in the other room.

Note thast you do NOT want ANY electronics actually IN the attic due to high heat.

We'll git-r-done one way or another.

 

[trainn99]

Hi -

so the dishnetwork guys came over today .. no install

they insisted that there is NO way to have the dishes (2 dishes: top 120 + arabic package) go from the roof to the cable box (which is in the attic) then use existing cabling from attic to living room TV (where 522 will be) and then send the signal back to attic (on the same coax) so that it goes to bedroom (wheee that Coax also has the internet on it)

they also mentioned that they may break some tiles on the roof, since it was very sensative tiles. I understand where they are coming from, becuase they don't want to be liable for it. I'm going to try and get an estimaet how much it would cost me to replace the tiles.. just in case!

I asked them to come back next week, where i can do more research about the wiring options i have ..

they said the DPP44 will only combine the signals from the dishs, but I will *have to have* two cables coming from DPP44 to reciever!

any ideas?

thanks again

 

[SimpleSimon]

The so-called installers are clueless. You can search around this site for 10 minutes and you'll know more than they do.

I suggest immediate escalation. I don't know who you're trying to order from, or anything like that. If a local retailer, ask for management, and tell them they need to send someone that have installed a DPP44 and a DPP Separator and that can spell words like "internet" and "broadband" and most especially "diplexer" and "combiner".

If they try to BS you, cancel, and look around for a high-end retailer, or ...

Email ceo@dishnetwork.com and give them the installer's company name, describe their lack of knowledge, and even refer to this thread. Ask for advice on how to get your install accomplished.

There's a reasonable chance that you'll actually get a phone call from one of the folks there - even if that person isn't totally up to speed on the details, they will find you the answers and the people that can do it.

Remember, tho - what you're asking for could very well cost you extra - especially with a tile roof, maybe stucco walls, etc.

 

[itsonthedish]

Since the internet is coming from the cable company there is no way to combine the two signals. Unless you get Direcway -- which I hear is lousy for playing games.

 

[Jahntassa]

Keep the cable modem out of the way. If all your cable goes to a central location, you might want to look into putting the cable modem before the splitter, and getting a wireless network setup. Cable modems do NOT play well with other signals, and i'd only imagine what kind of chaos trying to feed it through a diplexor would cause.

 

[SimpleSimon]

itsonthedish: You are incorrect about cable internet, but correct about Direcway.

jahntessa is certainly recommending the easy way out - and the one I wouild push for. But remember it IS possible to do.

Jahntessa's comment about the diplexer is correct - you MUST have the right stuff. Most diplexers low port is 50-950MHz. Cable internet is below that.

 

[Jahntassa]

SimpleSimon: Indeed it's the easy way out! Granted, I have no qualms against trying to do things the hard way. Take a tour through my apartment and you'll probably have your head turning with some of the stuff I have setup.

But, because you're trying to do so much...keeping as much simple as possible tends to make less headaches in the long run. You can ask my Wife about how many times things go wrong because I have to do it the "geek way".