unexplained low signal from 77 on 1000.4

[jtiner]

I'm having trouble with signal level on the 77 slot satellite on a 1000.4 and hoped somebody might have some idea as to what might be wrong....
Everything seems as it should be except for unusually low levels at 77.
Typical levels are 56-58 on 72.7, and 52-54 on 61.5, but only 25 on 77.
I've checked for vertical on the pole with a two foot level on all sides; I've verified line of site for all three EA satellites (wide open, with more than 10 degrees over the tree line at the worst point). I've checked the dish several times for any mechanical assembly problems. I also verified peak levels one satellite at a time, making sure I could clearly run through the peak on each regardless of the effect on the other signal levels, and the 77 location clearly will not exceed a signal level of 25 when running through the peak.
I've installed quite a few dishes, but this problem has me stumped.
I will add that this was not a brand new 1000.4 out of the box; the LNB was new, and the arm/components matched but the reflector was a bit beat up. I know any irregulaties in the reflector geometry will affect performance, but I'm guessing that's not the problem here.
I'd welcome any speculation on what might be going on.....

 

[whatchel1]

Probably don't need it

I'm having trouble with signal level on the 77 slot satellite on a 1000.4 and hoped somebody might have some idea as to what might be wrong....
Everything seems as it should be except for unusually low levels at 77.
Typical levels are 56-58 on 72.7, and 52-54 on 61.5, but only 25 on 77.
I've checked for vertical on the pole with a two foot level on all sides; I've verified line of site for all three EA satellites (wide open, with more than 10 degrees over the tree line at the worst point). I've checked the dish several times for any mechanical assembly problems. I also verified peak levels one satellite at a time, making sure I could clearly run through the peak on each regardless of the effect on the other signal levels, and the 77 location clearly will not exceed a signal level of 25 when running through the peak.
I've installed quite a few dishes, but this problem has me stumped.
I will add that this was not a brand new 1000.4 out of the box; the LNB was new, and the arm/components matched but the reflector was a bit beat up. I know any irregulaties in the reflector geometry will affect performance, but I'm guessing that's not the problem here.
I'd welcome any speculation on what might be going on.....

Unless you need the Spanish programing on 77 you don't need it. The rest of what is on 77 are locals that don't cover Maine. SatelliteGuys.US_TheList - DISH Network 77°W My guess installer knew this hit good levels on 61.5 & 72.7 and said 77 is there; works for me.

 

[jtiner]

Unless you need the Spanish programing on 77 you don't need it. The rest of what is on 77 are locals that don't cover Maine. SatelliteGuys.US_TheList - DISH Network 77°W My guess installer knew this hit good levels on 61.5 & 72.7 and said 77 is there; works for me.

Yeah, I did a little research on channel assignments and realized 72.7 was the core programming, but I'm still bothered by the fact that the level is low and I can't explain it.

 

[MikeD-C05]

There is something called the azimuth cam on the 1000.4 dish that allows you to adjust it a few degrees either to the right or left to maximize signal strength on both 72.7 and the 77 sats. If you peak on the 72.7 sat like the directions tell you and your skew is correct and you adjust the azimuth cam and peak the elevation rod , you will get signals in the 60s on 72.7 and between 45 - 70 on 61.5 sat and between 40 - 50 on 77 sat.

I followed the directions carefully and step by step did as they instructed and spent extra longer moving the azimuth cam till I got good strength on both sats. My signal strengths are what I outlined above. There is also the elevation rod that you can adjust to peak the dish even better for maximum signal strengths. This is why the eastern arc dish is so much harder for many installers to peak and aim correctly for maximum strength. They don't take the time to do these extra steps.

The western arc dish is easy to aim and peak . You follow the skew and elevation settings for your zipcode, aim at 119 sat and boom you get good signals on all 3 sats. Most people try to do the same with the eastern arc dish and aim on 72.7 but that is not enough to get good strength on all 3 sats. You have to adjust the azimuth cam and adjust the elevation rod for maximum strengths.

 

[flampher]

77 is very bad New England, or Vermont anyway, almost unusable I am told. I was so pleased when all the Nationals were moved off it. There were a few channels I was not able to get when I moved to 1000.4 (C-span, for one), but that is all a thing of the past. If memory serves me right the orbiter "has problems" and is scheduled to be replaced. I may be wrong about that however

 

[jonesy99]

I was told on on install that the 77 sat was off course and i didnt need it anyway. has that been corrected?

 

[TheKrell]

Off course? No, that's ridiculous. These satellites stay within a small "box" around their assigned location, AND pointed in precisely the right direction, or else they are pretty darn useless.

Agree that you probably don't need 77 anyway.

 

[jonesy99]

Off course? No, that's ridiculous. These satellites stay within a small "box" around their assigned location, AND pointed in precisely the right direction, or else they are pretty darn useless.

Agree that you probably don't need 77 anyway.

Just repeating what the man said, or do you have better info than the installers?

 

[jtiner]

There is something called the azimuth cam on the 1000.4 dish that allows you to adjust it a few degrees /SNIP/There is also the elevation rod that you can adjust to peak the dish even better for maximum signal strengths.

I was quite careful to center the azimuth plates before starting, and made sure rough alignment was quite good before using the cam. The elevation nuts were tight enough to prevent slop, and I was careful to go back and forth through el. peak noting the backlash on the rod. There was just no way 77 would peak over 25, even when peaking only for 77.
I spoke to the equipment vendor today, and they're sending a new reflector; I noticed the rim of the reflector had been hit too, along with the dents....
I had to take the reflector down to return it, but I've lashed up a temporary connection off my old 110/119 setup w/DP44.

 

[flampher]

I was also told by several installers that this Sat had problems and did not cover New England. It is really not used anymore for us up here, so I don't think I would waste any time peaking it, I just peak to 72 and 61 seems to fall into place and ignore 77

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-technical-discussions/207240-77-sat-programing-list.html

 

[jtiner]

I received my new reflector yesterday, and overall my signal levels incresed by 4 or 5 points (apparently the dents in the original reflector were having a measurable impact on performance).
However, the situation with 77 remains the same. On xponder 21 at 61.5 I see a level of 55, and at 72.7 the level is 61. At 77, the level is 23. The highest signal level on any xponder on 77 is 26, and that's it, even if I peak exclusively for 77.
This seems like an odd failure mode if it's LNB related, and I don't see anything physically wrong with the 77 window on the LNB. Thoughts?
Can somebody else in the Maine/NH area post their signal levels on 77 with a 1000.4 setup?
I realize there's nothing of interest for me at the 77 location, but it bothers me that the signal level is still low, and it shouldn't be.

EDIT: I've just read in another thread that a Dishnetwork retailer announcement indicates that the New York area is "not in the viewing area" of the 77 satellite. All of the CONUS coverage maps for 77 that I've seen are older maps. Can anyone confirm the footprint for 77 and that the low signal levels are normal for this area (central Maine)?

 

[jonesy99]

That sat has had issues for a while, was told it was off course but no doubt some know it all will dispute that..
signals strngths are low here in upstate ny as well..

 

[jtiner]

Well, if I'm reading the maps (that I just discovered) correctly, I've been wasting my time and Maine is outside even the lowest receive level contour of all three satellites in the 77 position, although we're in a fringe area for one satellite's high power beam.....
D'oh!

 

[Dah-Henny]

jonesy99, SOME installers will tell you whatever they think that you want to hear. Satguys are not know-it-alls, but the knowledge level on this site is second to none. If 77 was off course, it would be known here WAY before a lot of others would know. There are many installer members here as well, and are quite knowledgeable.

 

[jonesy99]

I wasnt really asking when the guy said it, just he was having issues with 61.5.

 

[dupont2010]

im in salem, ny neighbor, and get 25 or so, but between 72, and 61.5 all channels are there. because of hd duplicates, didnt care what 77 says, lol not using it

 

[Viper0580]

Is there any plans to replace the bird at 77 since it has problems? I to am on the 1000.4 dish and I get my Cincinnati locals off of the 77 bird. Would it be worth wile to get the 1000.2 dish and then a single dish to point at 77 to get HD locals? Would there be any advantage to doing this?

 

[MikeD-C05]

Next August they are supposed to replace it with a new Quetze satellite.