Upgrade to Blu Ray or just a Standard DVD?

[teachsac]

The Dennon 2500 is about on par with upscaling as the panasonic. They use the same chipset. The 3800 is outstanding for upscaling with the Realta scaling chipset, but has drawbacks in other areas such as it does not internally decode DTS High Res (bitstreams only) and both units suffer from LFE. There are workarounds for the Denons. Both are also profile 1.1 only if internet connectivity is of importance.

The BD55, Sony 550, and Pioneer 09 will al be out later this year with complete decoding and and profile 2. No reason then to give up your 3300. I still have mine in my bedroom. The 55 will use the next gen uniphier chipset. There should be better upscaling. It will all depend on how much emphasis they really want to put into it.

55 is an odd size for an LCD usuallly 52 and 57. Sharp has a 53 and Samsung has a 58.

The Denon 1909 (649) and 2309 (849) are also excellent receivers that can save you a few bucks also.

Tough decisions.

S~

 

[mitsufan]

If I keep my AVR 3300 then I won’t get the digital sound, the best I can do is either optical or coax from the DVD player to the AVR for DD/DTS 5.1 ?. I could just connect the HDMI cable to the TV (save money on the AVR and get a new TV?). I’ll just have to make sure that under the profile the TV speakers aren’t used during movie playback. If the 3800 or the 2500 for that matter won’t decode the audio in DTS (highres) will it default to DTS 5.1? At this point, I don’t see moving up to 7.1, my room just stinks and doubtful it’ll ever happen. My focus is to provide a killer picture and sound w/ my existing 5.1 speaker setup (nothing fancy). I can’t do a “work around” solution if the DVD player and/or AVR aren’t capable of decoding it.

I wonder when Denon will come out w/ replacement units that address the shortcomings.

BTW I did adjust the video on my Mits and it did improve some, so thanks again for that heads up.

 

[teachsac]

If you get a player that internally decodes all of the High Def formats, the player will do the D/A conversion and send it out over analogs to your receiver. The analog signal your 3300 receives, should be transparant providing the player performed its job correctly.

If you go with a player like the 2500, BD30, etc. that are transports only, you will need a new receiver to handle the advanced audio codecs such as True HD, DTS HR, and DTS MA. Otherwise you will simply get the DTS Core, or the standard DD codec.

There are two forms of High Def DTS Codecs, DTS High Res (which is lossy) and DTS Master (which is lossless). The 3800 will decode the latter, but only bitstream the former.

You can probably search the web and find some old posts from people that have gone into the service menu and corrected the red push. When the 711 was calibrated correctly, it was an awesome set.

Best advice to give you is get a player that internally decodes all formats, keep your 3300 and use analogs, and run HDMI for video to your new TV. You can always upgrade your receiver down the road.

S~

 

[mitsufan]

So kind of looks like I’ll have 4 options:

1) replace all three units.
2) Just replace the DVD player and TV w/ HDMI
3) Replace the DVD player and AVR (w/ HDMI connections) then use component out to the TV (existing)
4) Just replace the DVD player and use component until such time a new AVR or TV is purchased.

Any idea when Denon will have the new units out w/ profile 2.0? The upscaling of the 3800 is very important w/ my existing DVD collection, but w/ the few deficiencies in the 3800 I'm wondering if they are going to put out new models soon.

 

[teachsac]

So kind of looks like I’ll have three options:

1) replace all three units.
2) Just replace the DVD player and TV w/ HDMI
3) Replace the DVD player and AVR (w/ HDMI connections) then use component out to the TV (existing)
4) Just replace the DVD player and use component until such time a new AVR or TV is purchased.

Any idea when Denon will have the new units out w/ profile 2.0? The upscaling of the 3800 is very important w/ my existing DVD collection, but w/ the few deficiencies in the 3800 I'm wondering if they are going to put out new models soon.

If I'm reading you correctly. Number three will not work. You can't go HDMI into the receiver and component out to the TV.

Don't expect a new Denon any time soon. Personally, I would spend more on the TV and less on the player.

S~

 

[mitsufan]

Ah, I forgot that yiou could use HDMI to the AVR from the DVD player and then use component out. So that pushes me towards a new TV and DVD player and leave my AVR 3300 alone. I assume that whatever audio signal is outputed to it will just use the DTS/DD 5.1 capability then?

Anyone have comments on the Vizio TV line?

 

[navychop]

Not the best, but priced accordingly. I'd expect future repairs to be "difficult."

 

[teachsac]

Ah, I forgot that yiou could use HDMI to the AVR from the DVD player and then use component out. So that pushes me towards a new TV and DVD player and leave my AVR 3300 alone. I assume that whatever audio signal is outputed to it will just use the DTS/DD 5.1 capability then?

No. If you leave the AVR alone, you will get the lossless track through your 5.1 analogs. The difference is that the player (whichever you decide on) will do the digital to analog conversion rather than the receiver. No matter which way you go, all digital signals have to undergo that process. So you want to ensure that you get a player that decodes all audio formats and does a good job with D/A conversion. SO you in this situation, you will run the HDMI straight to the TV and 5.1 cables to your receiver.

S~

 

[mitsufan]

Whoops I meant can't use the HDMI-Component and therefore it seems that a new DVD player (which decodes all formats) and new TV w/ HDMI inputs fit the needs. While a new AVR would be sweet, I just don’t think that I’d come out ahead as I’m not going to 7.1 and with the DVD player directly connected to the TV via HDMI should suit me well. I’ll only use the digital outs (optical) of the DVD player for audio. Initially I’ll just use the component video outs until I get the new TV set, but while watching HD movies I’ll get 1080i still? I wish the profile 2.0 and an Ethernet port were on the Denon 3800 and I think this model fits the bill. Upscailing is important and after checking this weekend on the Panny BD-50 I wasn’t overly impressed, otherwise great unit and price point. I wasn’t able to view the Denon as that store they only carried the Panny while the other store only carries the Denon.

Denon 3800
Great upscaling and has the analog outputs for 5.1
Picture quality is rumored to be outstanding


Negative
Price (although I can get some % off).
LFE Bug(fix for that)
No Ethernet port
No profile 2.0

Panny BD-50
Great price
Provides the analog connections I need

Negative
Not as good as the Denon (from what I’ve read) demo to be done

 

[duckydan]

From the two you are looking at I'd go with the BD-50. I own the BD-30 and wouldn't trade it for anything until it dies (although it is a 1.1 player I have no need for those features) and I can't imagine the 50 is a step back as it has more features. Plus the thing that I always question when someone reviews a product is that on most sites (this one tends to be an exception) the more money spent means the better product regardless so I'd take the Denon reviews with a grain of salt until you do a personal comparison. After all how many sites rate Bose in the top ten audio companies and I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.

 

[teachsac]

Mitsu,

I'm still wondering why you would use optical for audio. Run 5.1 analogs to the receiver. I would do Component or HDMI to the TV and 5.1 analog to the receiver. That's what I plan on doing with my BD10 after I settle on a player for my living room. I still have my 3300 there.

I agree with Ducky. If upscaling is the absolute most improtant feature, you can get a good scaling DVD player and and a BD50 and still have 1300 bucks left over to put elsewhere. The BD50 in real life situations, on people's real TVs, and what people are use used to really isn't that bad of a player for SD DVDs.

S~

 

[mitsufan]

Is using the analog 5.1 connections a better way to connect the audio than optical/coax? The latter are digital vs the 5.1 connections are analog, or am I just way off?

In the past I know the higher end Denon DVD players to be much superior to my Pioneer (same era). That an my AVR 3300 hasn't had a problem since I've owned it. While I'm certainly going to do my evaluation to see if the 3800 is worth it or not, or I could look at it if I replaced all of my standard dvd's what would be that cost? At this point, the panny only seems to lack the upscaling of what I was hoping but I'll make sure the Denon blows it away before parting w/ 2k. I had thought about getting the Toshiba HD-DVD player to upscale the standard dvd's and then a Blu-ray for all future purchases, no go from the CEO. Therefore, I need to fit one unit into my needs as we don't have room for it.

Thanks for the help.

 

[teachsac]

Is using the analog 5.1 connections a better way to connect the audio than optical/coax? The latter are digital vs the 5.1 connections are analog, or am I just way off?

In the past I know the higher end Denon DVD players to be much superior to my Pioneer (same era). That an my AVR 3300 hasn't had a problem since I've owned it. While I'm certainly going to do my evaluation to see if the 3800 is worth it or not, or I could look at it if I replaced all of my standard dvd's what would be that cost? At this point, the panny only seems to lack the upscaling of what I was hoping but I'll make sure the Denon blows it away before parting w/ 2k. I had thought about getting the Toshiba HD-DVD player to upscale the standard dvd's and then a Blu-ray for all future purchases, no go from the CEO. Therefore, I need to fit one unit into my needs as we don't have room for it.

Thanks for the help.

Way off. Optical can not handle advanced audio codecs like TrueHD and DTS Master. Using optical, the most you will get is DD (640K) and DTS Core (1.5 mbit/s). Best bet is to use analog outs for best audio. There are several ways to get Advanced Audio: 1. Player bitstreams over HDMI to a compliant receiver to decode (Like the Denon 3808 or 2809). 2. Player decodes and sends LPCM over HDMI to a receiver that doesn't decode (like my Lexicon or a Denon 3806). 3. The player decodes, applies digital to analog conversion and sends it to a receiver over analogs (like our 3300s).

All audio has to go through Digital to analog conversion. That's how it gets to your speakers. It should not matter if that conversion is done in the player or in the receiver.

I'm not trying to sell the BD50, there are other players out or coming out that will do the decoding in the player from all of the major manufacturers. The question is is the upscaling worth $1500. I have installed quite a few 3800s and 2500s recently. While I find the 3800 to be the absolute best upscaling player out there in either format, as an all around player the negatives have made it not worth it for me at this time to replace my BD10 downstairs.

I do not recommend the Pioneers though as even though they will be able to decode These audio formats in the player, they won't output them over analog. I have no idea what they are thinking.

S~

 

[mitsufan]

Okay I was way off digital RCA’s are the best route to use. So if I’ve only got 5.1 inputs on the 3300 then from the DVD outputs I just use C, S, FR, FL, RL and RL and leave the other two inputs unconnected?

 

[teachsac]

Okay I was way off digital RCA’s are the best route to use. So if I’ve only got 5.1 inputs on the 3300 then from the DVD outputs I just use C, S, FR, FL, RL and RL and leave the other two inputs unconnected?

RCA's are analog but, yes, those are the ones you want to use for best audio quality. There will be a very nice difference between using the optical for leagacy codecs and the 5.1 and advanced codecs.

Just remember when you decide, the Pioneers will only do legacy over analog. Don't ask me why.

S~

 

[mitsufan]

Any concensus on Denon's 1800 player coming this fall. Seems to be closer price wise to that of the Panny 50, but I not been able to find out which chip they are using. I appears to offer analog outputs which fits my current AVR requirements from that aspect. But will it internally decode everything since my AVR 3300 doesn't decode HD signals?

Cons it's still only profile 1.1, and not ethernet and not sure on the SD dvd upscaling. Is this a competitive model in terms of performance to the Panny 50?

 

[teachsac]

I don't believe the 1800 will do any internal decoding. I believe it will be a transport only like the BD30 and BD2500.

S~

 

[mitsufan]

That's what I've not been able to determine if it's just a transport. If it is then clearly it's out unless I upgrade my AVR which isn't a high priority.

 

[teachsac]

I honestly think for your situation and setup, you will be perfectly satisfied on all fronts with either the BD50 or the upcoming BD55.

S~

 

[mitsufan]

That's where my research is sending me. I just hate to buy it and then find out I should have gone another route. What advantages does the Panny 55 have over the 50? Assuming that it's a more advanced model it may reduce the price of the 50 when it's out?