Use my old big dish cabling?

[stragenism]

Hello!

In 1991 when my house was built, it was originally cabled with a big dish setup. One main receiver (General Instrument Video Cipher II Plus 2400R) was used to manipulate the dish and send signal to 7 rooms in the house. Those original cables still come into the house in a thick bundle, but are no longer used.

In 2001 or so, we "upgraded" to DirecTV after realizing that the cost of just calling a dish repair tech to the house would cost more than the entire DirecTV installation with its better digital reception (I personally miss the old dish and the ability to "tune" it by manually directing it to different patches of sky).

When we spoke on the phone with the rep, they said that they could use the existing cables and the technician said the same thing when he arrived. He then proceeded to disconnect cables willy-nilly and waste 5 or 6 hours before saying, "I don't know what to do." He came back the next day with the magical solution of just putting in new cables to 3 of the rooms (we have had no more than 3 receivers).

I guess my question is, what's going to be my easiest option for moving a receiver to different rooms which are already cabled for a disconnected system? I'm open to anything and I have some DIY ability. I sincerely wish to avoid calling a DirecTV tech out to monkey around drilling new holes in my house, and I don't really want to run 200 feet of RF cable around my floorboards and doorways from "active" rooms.

Thanks! :

 

[Jimbo]

Hello!

In 1991 when my house was built, it was originally cabled with a big dish setup. One main receiver (General Instrument Video Cipher II Plus 2400R) was used to manipulate the dish and send signal to 7 rooms in the house. Those original cables still come into the house in a thick bundle, but are no longer used.

In 2001 or so, we "upgraded" to DirecTV after realizing that the cost of just calling a dish repair tech to the house would cost more than the entire DirecTV installation with its better digital reception (I personally miss the old dish and the ability to "tune" it by manually directing it to different patches of sky).

When we spoke on the phone with the rep, they said that they could use the existing cables and the technician said the same thing when he arrived. He then proceeded to disconnect cables willy-nilly and waste 5 or 6 hours before saying, "I don't know what to do." He came back the next day with the magical solution of just putting in new cables to 3 of the rooms (we have had no more than 3 receivers).

I guess my question is, what's going to be my easiest option for moving a receiver to different rooms which are already cabled for a disconnected system? I'm open to anything and I have some DIY ability. I sincerely wish to avoid calling a DirecTV tech out to monkey around drilling new holes in my house, and I don't really want to run 200 feet of RF cable around my floorboards and doorways from "active" rooms.

Thanks! :

Don't your existing cables come to a central location ?
You mentioned 7 rooms having cable already, where do they go to ?

 

[stragenism]

Don't your existing cables come to a central location ?
You mentioned 7 rooms having cable already, where do they go to ?

Thanks Jimbo,

I did some investigating of the setup. 4 cables come from the old dish straight into the house in a bundle: 2 RF cables, a power cable (Red/black/ground), and a control cable (labeled pulse, etc). Right now they terminate in the living room behind the TV where they used to connect to the old receiver and power supply, not plugged into anything.

On the wall where the cables come out, there are 4 boxes screwed onto the wall: DLS Signal Combiner (in use to combine antenna & sat), DLSPro UHF/VHF amp (not used? there is only a cable at IN, not OUT)), "Channel Master" (in use, not sure what it does), a 3-way splitter, and a DLS TV/VCR distribution amp (in use). I'm not sure which of these would have been used with the big dish, or if they're all new. Also, I'm unsure how the big dish modulated signal would have been supplied to the rest of the house.

And I just looked in the water heater closet and there's a charlie foxtrot of original and new cabling in there with two 2-way splitters and two 4-way splitters... I can't get in the attic to trace them without dying thanks to the summer heat, but it looks like the one output signal from the old dish receiver comes in, gets split a bunch of times, and then goes to the rest of the house.

I wasn't here when the DTV was installed, and I didn't have much time today, so I wasn't able to draw an input/output diagram. But I should be able to do that later today.

Outside, the two DTV wires come to a Zinwell 3x4 Multiswitch with 4 outputs, all cabled even though there are only 3 receivers in the house.

I apologize for the unorganized information, but I'm only just now learning about this stuff as it becomes necessary!

Is there any easy way to trace where cables begin and terminate? Some kind of sender-receiver for each end? Hopefully an inexpensive way.

Thanks for any info!

 

[ebms1]

Thanks Jimbo,

I did some investigating of the setup. 4 cables come from the old dish straight into the house in a bundle: 2 RF cables, a power cable (Red/black/ground), and a control cable (labeled pulse, etc). Right now they terminate in the living room behind the TV where they used to connect to the old receiver and power supply, not plugged into anything.

On the wall where the cables come out, there are 4 boxes screwed onto the wall: DLS Signal Combiner (in use to combine antenna & sat), DLSPro UHF/VHF amp (not used? there is only a cable at IN, not OUT)), "Channel Master" (in use, not sure what it does), a 3-way splitter, and a DLS TV/VCR distribution amp (in use). I'm not sure which of these would have been used with the big dish, or if they're all new. Also, I'm unsure how the big dish modulated signal would have been supplied to the rest of the house.

And I just looked in the water heater closet and there's a charlie foxtrot of original and new cabling in there with two 2-way splitters and two 4-way splitters... I can't get in the attic to trace them without dying thanks to the summer heat, but it looks like the one output signal from the old dish receiver comes in, gets split a bunch of times, and then goes to the rest of the house.

I wasn't here when the DTV was installed, and I didn't have much time today, so I wasn't able to draw an input/output diagram. But I should be able to do that later today.

Outside, the two DTV wires come to a Zinwell 3x4 Multiswitch with 4 outputs, all cabled even though there are only 3 receivers in the house.

I apologize for the unorganized information, but I'm only just now learning about this stuff as it becomes necessary!

Is there any easy way to trace where cables begin and terminate? Some kind of sender-receiver for each end? Hopefully an inexpensive way.

Thanks for any info!

if all you have is 3 recvrs .... the other may be connected to anothr room he found in the mix & left it connected...

to find the room connected if you cant just follow the wires ... just turn on all the tv's & disconnect them one by one & see what goes out ... be sure to label them ... after you find the 3 good wires ... you can take a recvr in each room uther that have cables in them & see if that 4th wire goes to any other...

 

[stragenism]

if all you have is 3 recvrs .... the other may be connected to anothr room he found in the mix & left it connected...

to find the room connected if you cant just follow the wires ... just turn on all the tv's & disconnect them one by one & see what goes out ... be sure to label them ... after you find the 3 good wires ... you can take a recvr in each room uther that have cables in them & see if that 4th wire goes to any other...

Well, the problem with that is that the DTV tech didn't use the existing wall jacks... he drilled new holes in my ceiling and walls and just ran the cable through! I have drawn up a schematic as best I could manage without getting inside the attic to see where the cables terminate. I'm uncertain of industry standards, so my annotations may not be the best. Hopefully this will shed some light on how I might be able to rearrange cables to my advantage.

The box labeled "S&S" is the old dish receiver (where it would be). "DTV" is a directv rcvr... I honestly don't know what the "channel master" is or does, since it has nothing written on it other than that. Boxes labeled "2W" are 2way splitters, "4W" are 4way splitters. The DLS TV/VCR distributor is some kind of amp, but it has a switch on the input side labeled "FM TRAP" to switch to IN or OUT. Thanks for any input you guys might have!

 

[stragenism]

I did some googling, the "Channel Master" box in the diagram is the power supply for the antenna, so the purple line is the ANT IN from the preamp.

 

[Jimbo]

Only thing you really need to find are the feeds to your rooms.
It's really hard to tell when they go into your attic.

You can buy a tone generator for the coax, but the cheapest ones I've seen are about $ 40-50.

Check this :

http://www.web-tronics.com/coaxmapwitto.html

 

[stragenism]

Only thing you really need to find are the feeds to your rooms.
It's really hard to tell when they go into your attic.

You can buy a tone generator for the coax, but the cheapest ones I've seen are about $ 40-50.

Check this :

COAX MAPPER with Tone Generator (CX 200)

Well, even if I found the terminal points, I'm not sure how I should rewire the system with what I have.

I tried connecting a DTV box coax out and the antenna signal with the signal combiner and plugging the resultant output into the old big dish outlet jack which then supposedly goes to the splitter setup to be split 8 ways. Unfortunately, the little TV I used to test the jacks didn't receive a satellite signal in any of the rooms... and then the antenna signal no longer made it to the other rooms (I've since returned the cables to the way they were this morning and there's still no antenna signal in the other rooms. I'll have to figure that one out.) I'm really unsure how the antenna signal is wired; the inlet clearly goes to the CM power supply, and the outlet clearly goes into the signal combiner into a 2-way, one output of which goes somewhere into the wall.

To complicate things further, the DTV tech clearly messed with the splitters in the utility closet, with a couple of new RG6 cables joining the fray of RG59. There's even one hanging unconnected in the closet with a connector unlike any of the others! I believe I will have to do as you say and just fork out cash for a tone generator.

I know the fubar of splitters is a terrible idea and absolutely does result in wacky signal strength (if 3 TVs were watching the satellite at the same time, the picture would start getting worse), especially considering some really bad jobs of crimp connector termination. Frustrating!

Thanks once again!
J

 

[Jimbo]

Well, even if I found the terminal points, I'm not sure how I should rewire the system with what I have.

I tried connecting a DTV box coax out and the antenna signal with the signal combiner and plugging the resultant output into the old big dish outlet jack which then supposedly goes to the splitter setup to be split 8 ways. Unfortunately, the little TV I used to test the jacks didn't receive a satellite signal in any of the rooms... and then the antenna signal no longer made it to the other rooms (I've since returned the cables to the way they were this morning and there's still no antenna signal in the other rooms. I'll have to figure that one out.) I'm really unsure how the antenna signal is wired; the inlet clearly goes to the CM power supply, and the outlet clearly goes into the signal combiner into a 2-way, one output of which goes somewhere into the wall.

To complicate things further, the DTV tech clearly messed with the splitters in the utility closet, with a couple of new RG6 cables joining the fray of RG59. There's even one hanging unconnected in the closet with a connector unlike any of the others! I believe I will have to do as you say and just fork out cash for a tone generator.

I know the fubar of splitters is a terrible idea and absolutely does result in wacky signal strength (if 3 TVs were watching the satellite at the same time, the picture would start getting worse), especially considering some really bad jobs of crimp connector termination. Frustrating!

Thanks once again!
J

You DO know you cannot have any coax splitters between the D* LNB and the recvr, right ?

 

[Davedirectv]

???????????????????


This is the most confusing thing ever.

So, you call out a Directv tech non-the-less to install a 2010 satellite system on this 1990's satellite setup, and wonder why the kid gets lost and decides to figure it out if he can and then, like you, gets lost and decides to skip the BS and run his own stuff?

And you talk as if he was an idiot.

Here's a damn brain storm, get rid of all the JUNK you aren't using anymore and replace it, or have directv replace, or pay someone to replace it.

OR

If you want to keep the prehistoric sat setup, then just let Directv run their own lines, and maybe, just figure out what the will do for you for free, and what they charge for.

Heck if it makes you feel better, just let them do what they will and then come back here and post how dumb/stupid/inexperienced/etc/etc. they were.

 

[tvropro]

I'd like to see even the best DirecTv tech figure out my SMATV and A/V setup. These guys mostly aren't trained in nothing but point and click. They can somewhat aim a small dish and connect tab A into slot B for cabling.

I have to figure out some crazy setups in my line of work and it can take time to trace and understand. If all you know is textbook on what Direct taught you, good luck on anything off the beaten path. That what separates the men from the boys.

All I had my installer do when he came out was authorize the STB. He even admitted I could do a better install of the dish then he could. I put the system together my way.

I suggest let Direct do their thing then put it together the way you want after it's done if you want something custom.

 

[SATMANINMEMPHIS]

I'd like to see even the best DirecTv tech figure out my SMATV and A/V setup. These guys mostly aren't trained in nothing but point and click. They can somewhat aim a small dish and connect tab A into slot B for cabling.

I have to figure out some crazy setups in my line of work and it can take time to trace and understand. If all you know is textbook on what Direct taught you, good luck on anything off the beaten path. That what separates the men from the boys.

All I had my installer do when he came out was authorize the STB. He even admitted I could do a better install of the dish then he could. I put the system together my way.

I suggest let Direct do their thing then put it together the way you want after it's done if you want something custom.

I fear that you are a tad wrong. Yes, the HSP tech running around the country can probably only point and click, I've been out here for 24 years and yes, I am a satellite installer, but my knowledge is light years away from point and click...Generalization is the number one cause of stereotyping an individual...

 

[tvropro]

I fear that you are a tad wrong. Yes, the HSP tech running around the country can probably only point and click, I've been out here for 24 years and yes, I am a satellite installer, but my knowledge is light years away from point and click...Generalization is the number one cause of stereotyping an individual...

Maybe I need to rephrase a bit. This may be the case with you and others, but most that do the small dish installs are not ones that can handle anything intense. Most that have higher knowledge and skills use them in much higher involved forms of work than tossing up pizza systems, especially at the consumer level.

 

[ebms1]

Well, the problem with that is that the DTV tech didn't use the existing wall jacks... he drilled new holes in my ceiling and walls and just ran the cable through! I have drawn up a schematic as best I could manage without getting inside the attic to see where the cables terminate. I'm uncertain of industry standards, so my annotations may not be the best. Hopefully this will shed some light on how I might be able to rearrange cables to my advantage.

The box labeled "S&S" is the old dish receiver (where it would be). "DTV" is a directv rcvr... I honestly don't know what the "channel master" is or does, since it has nothing written on it other than that. Boxes labeled "2W" are 2way splitters, "4W" are 4way splitters. The DLS TV/VCR distributor is some kind of amp, but it has a switch on the input side labeled "FM TRAP" to switch to IN or OUT. Thanks for any input you guys might have!

with all the Letters & numbers you have there must be or must have been a chart telling you what each wire is ... i can see why the tech ran his own wires....


what you have there is an ant & sat distrubition center ... but it is for ant & tv out from recvr only .... you cant run sat lines thru it ... you could have taken the tv out from a recvr & distributed it thru the house

 

[stragenism]

I think a point of confusion on my diagram is that this upload doesn't say "LIVING ROOM" above the big box on the right-middle. All that junk is screwed into the wall behind my entertainment center. S&S is the old sat rcvr, DTV is the DTV rcvr, and DSC is the HD converter for the ANT signal for the non-HD tv in that room.

You DO know you cannot have any coax splitters between the D* LNB and the recvr, right ?

Yeah, I know that, but I was trying to send the "TO TV" from the DTV rcvr through the old lines.

???????????????????
This is the most confusing thing ever.

Yeah, I didn't wire it. I'm trying to figure it out. I was upset because they claimed they could do it and then proceeded to dismantle cables left and right without any useful labels or references.

I'd like to see even the best DirecTv tech figure out my SMATV and A/V setup. These guys mostly aren't trained in nothing but point and click. They can somewhat aim a small dish and connect tab A into slot B for cabling.

All I had my installer do when he came out was authorize the STB. He even admitted I could do a better install of the dish then he could. I put the system together my way.

I suggest let Direct do their thing then put it together the way you want after it's done if you want something custom.

Yeah, they've run their wiring, that's why I'm trying to figure it out now. The complications with all of the devices in the living room area arose pretty much after the antenna installation. I didn't know if any of those were original equipment, but I have figured out where all the original cabling went and where I would have to feed a signal to be split to all rooms. Additionally, I have labeled the cables and their terminal jacks as well as posted a better wiring diagram in the utility closet for any unfortunate soul who needs to perform maintenance on it.

with all the Letters & numbers you have there must be or must have been a chart telling you what each wire is ... i can see why the tech ran his own wires....


what you have there is an ant & sat distrubition center ... but it is for ant & tv out from recvr only .... you cant run sat lines thru it ... you could have taken the tv out from a recvr & distributed it thru the house

LOL, none of the wiring ANYWHERE is labeled, except, for some reason, the control wire for the big dish. I put labels on the chart for my own reference. If the original installers had done that, there probably wouldn't be any issues, but they installed the cables before the drywall and insulation was up so they had no problem just eyeballing it. Everything on that diagram is how it was before I touched anything.

 

[WhoRay85]

I'd like to see even the best DirecTv tech figure out my SMATV and A/V setup. These guys mostly aren't trained in nothing but point and click. They can somewhat aim a small dish and connect tab A into slot B for cabling.

Send a rough diagram and I'll do it.