Visionsat IV200 PVR polarity issue confuses me!

[radio]

I've been enjoying my basic Pansat 3500 SD unit as my first FTA box. Last night, I put the Visionsat "online" and like most of the features! Read the review Iceberg wrote on this box a few years ago, and the VERY informative thread that followed. Makes me want to have this box fully functional soon! In fact, Iceberg and I exchanged PM's about a problem that's got my head swimming: Polarity! Iceberg got my straight on the order of events for proper scanning. (no manual on my end, didn't see one posted in the manuals section of this site.)

The Pansat is 100 percent working. Channels scan on both c and Ku, they match what the Satelliteguys charts show for polarity, frequency, EVERYTHING.

Transferred the coax from my LNBF over to the visionsat, kept dish locked on AMC-1 at 103. C-band. Scanned, and with the help of Iceberg's suggestions I got nice pictures on most feeds, ION, and similar on that bird. BUT........they all read as if they are the wrong polarity, opposite what the charts say, and some that pop right in on the Pansat won't appear on the Visionsat. At times, a Ku scan would show up, too.

We know its not an LNBF or cabling issue, per the pansat working.
I rolled the firmware to 1.45 version recommended by many. (the unit had something much higher installed that I think was for a non-recommended use.)

Any thoughts on a setting I'm missing somewhere? Iceberg got me through all the usual settings, we're running "standard" LNB, LNB power on, all the main setups look to be correct.

Would LOVE to get this unit online and functioning as nicely as the Pansat 3500.

I did have to rotate the LNBF initially when I first moved from 4D to FTA to get the channels to read on the Pansat. I'm hoping that since Pansat reads 100% correctly that there's not an LNBF alignment issue. Have an internal 22khz switch at the LNBF functioning and "on" is ku. "off" is C-band. works fine on Pansat.

(and thanks, Iceberg for all the great help thus far.)

 

[Mr Tony]

I thought about this last night and I am still baffled how one receiver can show the polarity properly and the other the polarity is off on every channel.

If you're using the 741 C/KU LNB make sure the 0 skew is at 12:00/6:00 (like on a clock)...that is the correct position for that LNB whereas alot of the C-Band only LNB's are 90 degrees off.

 

[radio]

I'm going to take lunch and work on this! Hope the problem didn't keep you awake! Thanks for all the help....as they stay in radio, "stand by...."

 

[radio]

Checked LNB. Zero is facing down, at the six o'clock position. And, we're getting the Ku spillover onto C-band. Wasn't there an issue with the 22khz switching via software on this somewhere that got fixed? I'm running what I thought was the latest (1.45, I believe) .......could that cause this? Can a switch issue cause this even though the switch controls c to ku and vice versa, not horizontal to vertical? And, there is no problem with the pansat. It has a VERY NICE Ku band picture of beaches on those micro..... transponders......and switches just fine.

Pansat continues to beat this one in ease of scanning. Was going to try running an external diseq vs. the built-in 22khz, but not sure if I'd have any better luck. Been trying different software revisions as posted on this site, also.

Is it at all possible that a former owner messing on the "dark side" could cause irreversible software damage to the brains that run this unit? I've never asked this before, and have seen no reference to it happening anywhere.

Continued thoughts welcomed!

 

[Anole]

C-band. Scanned, and with the help of Iceberg's suggestions I got nice pictures on most feeds, ION, and similar on that bird. BUT........they all read as if they are the wrong polarity, opposite what the charts say, and some that pop right in on the Pansat won't appear on the Visionsat.

Did you check that the Visionsat was putting out 13 volts for Vertical and 18 volts for Horizontal?
It may have a burned out regulator and be putting out only one voltage.
If so, I'll find the thread where Brian talked about putting a more robust part into many FTA receivers.
And, if that seems to be the problem (and I can find my spares), I'll send you one.

(some DishNetwork LNB/Switch combinations pull way more current than most FTA boxes are rated for) -

 

[radio]

Did you check that the Visionsat was putting out 13 volts for Vertical and 18 volts for Horizontal?
It may have a burned out regulator and be putting out only one voltage.
If so, I'll find the thread where Brian talked about putting a more robust part into many FTA receivers.
And, if that seems to be the problem (and I can find my spares), I'll send you one.

(some DishNetwork LNB/Switch combinations pull way more current than most FTA boxes are rated for) -

An excellent suggestion, a bit beyond what I want to get-into but, I have someone who can open the case if that is the problem. Will measure......and an excellent suggestion! I do like the box overall. I'm still unclear, however...if that is the case, why would the polarities read wronly on-screen instead of just not showing up at all? This one has me truly baffled.

thanks so much for the ideas!

 

[Mr Tony]

Couldnt you just put a piece of coax on the LNB input and check with a volt meter (positive to middle of connector, negative to end?)

Otherwise try this....I think the Visionsat has an option for a "new" satellite. Or use a satellite that cant be seen here in the US (like Brazilsat). Delete all the transponders in that satellite then reblind scan W1 and see what it shows up for results.

To delete go into the channel scan option, select "manual" (normally you select blind) and there is a color coded button to delete transponders

 

[radio]

Did you check that the Visionsat was putting out 13 volts for Vertical and 18 volts for Horizontal?
It may have a burned out regulator and be putting out only one voltage.
If so, I'll find the thread where Brian talked about putting a more robust part into many FTA receivers.
And, if that seems to be the problem (and I can find my spares), I'll send you one.

(some DishNetwork LNB/Switch combinations pull way more current than most FTA boxes are rated for) -

Horizontal (no load from LNB) is 20.54 volts
Vertical (same no load notation) is 14.35 volts.
With the 2khz switch "on" ( Left in Vertical position) we drop to 14.04, then "off" it goes to 13.79 on same screen as the 22khz is switched in and out. (no load, no switch, just the option on the screen)

Good and steady voltage observed switching back and forth on a "service search" screen under "manual" so I can check this.

 

[radio]

Given the way this is acting, if its software-based (not working the 22khz correctly as evidenced by the Ku showing up on a C-band scan)...
Is it possible switching to a diseq switch to select c vs. ku would fix this? If so, and if I'm going to add a V-box or G-box, which diseq do I assign for it?

 

[Mr Tony]

yes you could use a Diseqc. I'd put C-Band on port 1 and KU on port 2

If you add a V-Box/G-Box it would still be the same way. C-Band as port 1 and KU as port 2

 

[radio]

are diseq's temperature sensitive? I'd prefer to put it outside but under the LNB cover, thus preserving an extra coax coming in on my former Birdview dual feed, but inside is also good!

 

[Anole]

Horizontal (no load from LNB) is 20.54 volts
Vertical (same no load notation) is 14.35 volts.
With the 2khz switch "on" ( Left in Vertical position) we drop to 14.04, then "off" it goes to 13.79 on same screen as the 22khz is switched in and out. (no load, no switch, just the option on the screen)

Good and steady voltage observed switching back and forth on a "service search" screen under "manual" so I can check this.

Well, the fact that the voltage changes at all with and without the switch, does bother me.
It's a very tiny load, and I'd not expect the voltage to change at all.

Ya really should have tested with a representative load : the LNB you are using.
It'd probably pull a respectable 60..120 ma, and then we'd see how the regulator in the receiver is doing.

Of course, if the voltages remain healthy, then this isn't likely your problem
We'd have to get someone like Brian of SatAV to comment on the actual switching thresholds of LNBFs.

 

[Mr Tony]

are diseq's temperature sensitive? I'd prefer to put it outside but under the LNB cover, thus preserving an extra coax coming in on my former Birdview dual feed, but inside is also good!

I had a 4x1 diseqc right by the dish for about 2 years...just with the plastic cover thingy over it. Survived 2 MN winters

The 2nd pic was an old 22k switch....that survived too even being buried under snow from a blizzard (I had no signal though because the dish was buried too)

 

[radio]

Well, this IS getting interesting! I installed my very first diseqc switch moments ago. Using the pansat. C-band on 1, Ku on 2. Default must be "1" as the picture was on and running when I got inside. I set the AMC-1 for C band on 1, Ku on 2. Scanned Ku again to verify reception. It picked up quite nicely. Will now put the Visionsat back online and report.

I really appreciate the interest members take in each other's setups....its nice being able to do things like this!

I'll probably need a bit of instruction (will check those famous switch charts here on the site) when adding the positioner.

 

[Mr Tony]

When you add the positioner that is installed in line inside

receiver---------coax----------V-Box/G-Box---------coax-----------------diseqc switch----LNB
--------------------------------V-Box/G-Box 4 wires--------------------actuator

as shown here
http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/PowerTech/GBox-V3000-Back.JPG

 

[radio]

Couldn't wait to finish the blind scan, guys! Had to type a message to you! The receiver correctly recognized multiple services on multiple transponders (C-band) on the short scan. Doing blind now. Found more on that initial scan. Found 34 services of TV and 4 radio. We're up and running now!

My guess? software in the box. Someone along the way after Iceberg's original review noted a 22khz issue with this box, and perhaps my box is just "quirky" where the software won't fix it. Running 1.45 which I believe was the last one available per this site. I'm impressed. Will be covering my LNB from the weather next, and going through setting both the Pansat AND the Visionsat for diseqc vs. 22khz.

Lesson: (to me) With FTA, it's try it til it works!"

Ku is next.......

 

[Mr Tony]

so when you put up the Diseqc switch (instead of the 22k) the Visionsat recognized it right and gives proper polarity?

 

[radio]

Yes, indeed! NO polarity issues, (shows them correctly) and, it finds all channels, including some I either deleted from the Pansat, or that it could not pick up. The Ku scan took what seemed like forever, but it found everything beautifully, and, there's no "bleed" between C and Ku.

I know there's nothing wrong with the 22khz switch itself because it worked on the Pansat. So, we'll just keep it this way, and now explore the joys of my second-ever FTA box, though old and outdated it may be. I loved the review you wrote, and when the "price was right" it seemed time to try it.

I think a fun weekend is on tap. Now, if only my V-box would arrive so I could make the Birdview move without using my old 4D box! Ah, patience, Jim...that comes Monday.

 

[radio]

By the way, I know "digital....is DIGITAL" But, I perceive a slight improvement in the video quality on this receiver. Not that signal strength can affect digital video. It can't as we all know (given that you have a usable signal.) but I think the video "rendering" circuitry must be a bit more advanced in the lightweight Visionsat than the Pansat. It just "looks" better to me.

 

[Mr Tony]

Yes, indeed! NO polarity issues, (shows them correctly) and, it finds all channels, including some I either deleted from the Pansat, or that it could not pick up.

so it was the 22k switch then...hmmmm.....

The Ku scan took what seemed like forever, but it found everything beautifully, and, there's no "bleed" between C and Ku.

If I remember right when it scans KU it scans from 11700 to 12900 which is what the rest fo the world uses. We stop at 12200 (DBS takes over from there)
So when you do a blind scan change from "Auto" to "Manual" and change the end frequency to 12200.

See modified pic