Voom, CVC, FCC, and Installs, Inc. - What Now And Why?
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SonicRob said:My Installer took my Cables he took some Components and DVI Connections did he have to take them or are they mines.
nope them was yours when you call to get a upgrade tell them you want you cable to you need them and the tech took everything with him.
Glad they got you hooked up rob, sounds like you don't have HD fox in your area, what a bummer. The superbowl would look great in HD on that 4805 projector. I have my 50 yard line seats all sold out in my living room with my 4805 and a 106" screen, LOL!!!
Super Bowl
I will see the Super Bowl i forgot my Local Telmundo has the Rights to Broadcast
Fox Football games it is a Spanish station but i will be watching it in a 32 inch Analog Channel i should be able to Pick up Telemundo on my Voom Attenna which they have a HD Channel but i can't Pick it up.
I will convince Family and Friends to come over and watch the Super Bowl at my Place and then Boom after the Game Turn on my Infocus 4805 and Watch ESPN HD and HD News for Super Bowl Highlights my Friends and Family will Love the HD CHannels and maybe i could convince them on Voom.
I will see the Super Bowl i forgot my Local Telmundo has the Rights to Broadcast
Fox Football games it is a Spanish station but i will be watching it in a 32 inch Analog Channel i should be able to Pick up Telemundo on my Voom Attenna which they have a HD Channel but i can't Pick it up.
I will convince Family and Friends to come over and watch the Super Bowl at my Place and then Boom after the Game Turn on my Infocus 4805 and Watch ESPN HD and HD News for Super Bowl Highlights my Friends and Family will Love the HD CHannels and maybe i could convince them on Voom.
Tyork
Thanks for your Help i will call them up and tell them first thing in the morning you have been a big help and your right i should be able to pick Telemundo. If i Have any problems i will tell you and maybe you could give them a call but Bradley said not to call Install Inc he said to Call Voom directly and tell them about my problem and they will call Install Inc.
The Tech Guy he has Been Installing Voom for a Year and we Could only get 2 Locals but i know i could pick up more he is just not trying hard enough.
Thanks for your Help i will call them up and tell them first thing in the morning you have been a big help and your right i should be able to pick Telemundo. If i Have any problems i will tell you and maybe you could give them a call but Bradley said not to call Install Inc he said to Call Voom directly and tell them about my problem and they will call Install Inc.
The Tech Guy he has Been Installing Voom for a Year and we Could only get 2 Locals but i know i could pick up more he is just not trying hard enough.
Since you didn’t reference the post you were replying to, I will apologize in advance if I am wrong, but it appeared to me that you were replying to TYORK. If that’s the case, I think you owe her an apology. You know, don't shoot the messenger....
(TYORK, please excuse me if I’m wrong, but I thought I saw a reference somewhere that indicated you were a female.)
She didn’t ask you to buy anything, and she didn’t offer any excuses. She stated the facts as she knows them regarding the OTA. I won’t go into the whole story here (you can check my posts around June or July if you’re interested), but I’m rather certain that my install experiences would back her up, right down to:
Bradley, for the most part, I agree with points I’ve seen you make on these forums, and feel that you are knowledgeable and do generate thoughts and discussion of things that are imperative for VOOM to address if they live through this crisis.
However, I really think you need to dial it back a notch. In my opinion, you are coming off now as being way too full of yourself, and many people stop paying attention to folks like that. You have a lot to offer, and I’d hate to see people skipping your posts because of that.
Just one last little rant, and this is only my sense of decorum…and I may well be out of line here…but the welcome to SonicRob and solicitation for him to email you to solve his problem seemed a bit presumptuous to me. The staff and moderators usually welcome newcomers to the forums they preside over, and I really can’t recall anyone suggesting someone email them to solve a problem. In the end, I can’t really be certain whether it was TYORK’s assistance or yours that got him up and running, but it seems that problems have a better chance of being solved, and may also benefit more than just the poster, if there is more than one mind working on it.
Just my opinions. Fire at will, anyone who wishes...my blindfold is in place!
(TYORK, please excuse me if I’m wrong, but I thought I saw a reference somewhere that indicated you were a female.)
bradley said:
She didn’t ask you to buy anything, and she didn’t offer any excuses. She stated the facts as she knows them regarding the OTA. I won’t go into the whole story here (you can check my posts around June or July if you’re interested), but I’m rather certain that my install experiences would back her up, right down to:
My original antenna got the channels, just couldn’t keep them. The installer with the first upgrade was a good guy, but the upgrade wouldn’t even get the channels. He spent about 5 or 6 hours in 105 degree heat fixing my original horrendous install and trying the upgrade antenna. And this was on a three-day-weekend Friday night. I finally told him to give it up and leave the original antenna and I went back to VOOM for a further upgrade.TYORK said:
I agree with most of the points you make here, except for the first one. Many people on this board are very well informed, but there are also many (if not most) who are NOT. Using the knowledge I picked up from this board, I too, quickly understood how pathetic it was that I, an absolute idiot with this technology, was frequently telling an installer something I learned here, and hearing him say, “Really?? I didn’t know that…”. That is inexcusable. The customer shouln’t have to know the technician’s job, but it happens.bradley said:
Valid questions all. But questions that only rightfully should be answered by Installs, Inc. top management, not TYORK. Frankly, she has shared information with us that sometimes made me wonder if she was putting herself in a vulnerable position. I think we should just be thankful she’s willing to share as much as she can, and I don’t believe she should be assaulted with questions that are the responsibility of Installs, Inc. top management team.bradley said:
100% agreement here, but in VOOM’s defense, they were doing exit surveys (referenced in one of my old posts). I never heard from Installs.bradley said:
Bradley, for the most part, I agree with points I’ve seen you make on these forums, and feel that you are knowledgeable and do generate thoughts and discussion of things that are imperative for VOOM to address if they live through this crisis.
However, I really think you need to dial it back a notch. In my opinion, you are coming off now as being way too full of yourself, and many people stop paying attention to folks like that. You have a lot to offer, and I’d hate to see people skipping your posts because of that.
Just one last little rant, and this is only my sense of decorum…and I may well be out of line here…but the welcome to SonicRob and solicitation for him to email you to solve his problem seemed a bit presumptuous to me. The staff and moderators usually welcome newcomers to the forums they preside over, and I really can’t recall anyone suggesting someone email them to solve a problem. In the end, I can’t really be certain whether it was TYORK’s assistance or yours that got him up and running, but it seems that problems have a better chance of being solved, and may also benefit more than just the poster, if there is more than one mind working on it.
Just my opinions.
Fire at will, anyone who wishes...my blindfold is in place! 
Psychology 101
For the record, my installation in November 2004 went just fine -- the fellow was here for three hours in the hot sun placing the stuff on the roof of a two story house with twelve foot ceilings and never complained. He even spent more time than I expected discussing the remote and a few oddities about VOOM I should know about compared to my Echostar service.
My billing has never been a problem. They have always sent me a paper bill.
Customer service over the phone has been much better than Echostar -- I'm never on hold for more than 2 minutes with VOOM, the people are extremely nice and as knowledgeable as management in any organization allows them to be.
Whatever issues VOOM had in the early days of the service seem to have been largely resolved. Surely exceptions to this occur, but for the most part installs and billing are much improved.
All of this endless pontificating and starting of new threads to rehash issues that have been discussed elsewhere ad noseum is more the result of the needs of poster ego; that is, the enjoyment and satisfaction one may get from re-reading their lengthy posts over and over again.
I'd really like folks to think twice before starting a new thread on VOOM unless they've got some earth-shattering NEW information from which folks can truely benefit.
For the record, my installation in November 2004 went just fine -- the fellow was here for three hours in the hot sun placing the stuff on the roof of a two story house with twelve foot ceilings and never complained. He even spent more time than I expected discussing the remote and a few oddities about VOOM I should know about compared to my Echostar service.
My billing has never been a problem. They have always sent me a paper bill.
Customer service over the phone has been much better than Echostar -- I'm never on hold for more than 2 minutes with VOOM, the people are extremely nice and as knowledgeable as management in any organization allows them to be.
Whatever issues VOOM had in the early days of the service seem to have been largely resolved. Surely exceptions to this occur, but for the most part installs and billing are much improved.
All of this endless pontificating and starting of new threads to rehash issues that have been discussed elsewhere ad noseum is more the result of the needs of poster ego; that is, the enjoyment and satisfaction one may get from re-reading their lengthy posts over and over again.
I'd really like folks to think twice before starting a new thread on VOOM unless they've got some earth-shattering NEW information from which folks can truely benefit.
Why Voom has failed...
Everyone wants to point their finger at one thing and say, "Ah HA! That's why Voom failed!" It's not one thing in particular, rather a LOT of things. The Installs, Inc. fiasco certainly is a major contributor along with the OTA locals problems and the fact that Voom has yet to release 100% stable software for the stb. However, the bigger problem here is the market just wasn't/isn't ready for this type of service...at least not today. Not enough people are interested in dealing with the more involved issues of HDTV. Until that gets worked out, and there is MORE HD programming available, I just don't see a service like Voom working. People around here tend to forget the general public knows less than a fraction of what the newest newbie around here knows about HDTVs, TVs, satellites, etc. They aren't going to deal with all of the problems with Voom when they can sit there and watch cable, dtv or Dish without the same problems. Just not gonna happen.
Heck, Voom couldn't GIVE AWAY the service! It's been (basically) free or FREE for the better part of last year. What's the maximum number of subs at any given time? 40,000? 50,000? I don't know those numbers but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's certainly less than 100,000. Certainly not a VIABLE business at all.
You could argu Voom needed to advertise, barket better, etc. But I just don't see that as much help. So maybe they get to 100,000 subs. Still not a viable business. Just bad timing.
It was mentioned another reason Voom failed is because Wall Street hates Voom. That had little to nothing to do with it. Remember, most people aren't reading the Financial Times at breakfast. Most people couldn't tell you if the company who made their TV was profitable or not and they don't care either. The general public does not follow the financial markets or stories in those markets unless those stories are making it into their general news broadcasts. Voom wasn't making it into those broadcasts.
One thing which was mentioned which I agree with 100% is the failure of Voom wll have lasting implications on who provides more HD programming in the near future. There is now no rush to provide more. There is no reason to provide more. If I were making the decisions (from a financial standpoint) at dtv, Dish or a cable company, I'd certainly look at the Voom fiasco and think twice about spending the money/resources to bring more HD programming people to the general public.
The Rickster
Everyone wants to point their finger at one thing and say, "Ah HA! That's why Voom failed!" It's not one thing in particular, rather a LOT of things. The Installs, Inc. fiasco certainly is a major contributor along with the OTA locals problems and the fact that Voom has yet to release 100% stable software for the stb. However, the bigger problem here is the market just wasn't/isn't ready for this type of service...at least not today. Not enough people are interested in dealing with the more involved issues of HDTV. Until that gets worked out, and there is MORE HD programming available, I just don't see a service like Voom working. People around here tend to forget the general public knows less than a fraction of what the newest newbie around here knows about HDTVs, TVs, satellites, etc. They aren't going to deal with all of the problems with Voom when they can sit there and watch cable, dtv or Dish without the same problems. Just not gonna happen.
Heck, Voom couldn't GIVE AWAY the service! It's been (basically) free or FREE for the better part of last year. What's the maximum number of subs at any given time? 40,000? 50,000? I don't know those numbers but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's certainly less than 100,000. Certainly not a VIABLE business at all.
You could argu Voom needed to advertise, barket better, etc. But I just don't see that as much help. So maybe they get to 100,000 subs. Still not a viable business. Just bad timing.
It was mentioned another reason Voom failed is because Wall Street hates Voom. That had little to nothing to do with it. Remember, most people aren't reading the Financial Times at breakfast. Most people couldn't tell you if the company who made their TV was profitable or not and they don't care either. The general public does not follow the financial markets or stories in those markets unless those stories are making it into their general news broadcasts. Voom wasn't making it into those broadcasts.
One thing which was mentioned which I agree with 100% is the failure of Voom wll have lasting implications on who provides more HD programming in the near future. There is now no rush to provide more. There is no reason to provide more. If I were making the decisions (from a financial standpoint) at dtv, Dish or a cable company, I'd certainly look at the Voom fiasco and think twice about spending the money/resources to bring more HD programming people to the general public.
The Rickster
GadgetRick said:
GadgetRick said:
I, too, am going to point my finger at one thing.
I think there's enough programming available -- but not when you can only watch one thing at a time.
If Voom had come to market with a DVR (as the ONLY STB) out of the gate, I think their fortunes would've been significantly different.
There is a lot of interesting and thoughtful comments in this string. I certainly agree that Installs, Inc. with its awful record from my perspective (more on that), was not the sole cause of the failure of Voom. Poor go to market strategy, poor product planning and lack of current market size (critical mass) would be tops on my list. The lack of local channels off the satellite (go to market) was and is a major shortfall. As shown in these posts it appears to have generated more misunderstanding, customer service fiascos and and overall dissatisfaction (including me in this category). Lack of a DVR would also be high on my list. I have been forced to spend around $90. per month on D* in addition to Voom so that I could continue to record my favorites. Fortunately, I could afford the almost $200 a month for TV service but it is not economical and lots of folks have other prioities for their hard earned bucks.
My experience regarding OTA reception has been a trial in itself. I have spent hours on it. An antenna upgrade had been scheduled by a CSR for me but was unilaterally cancelled by the installer with the notation "no line of sight". This was the same installer who hooked me up originally but he did not revisit my house regarding the upgrade. Neither he nor anyone else connected with Voom communicated to me that the installer took it on his own to cancel. This same installer originally got angry, seemingly with me, because he had to come back to my house for a second time because I cancelled the first appointment for installation but then changed my mind. My original hesitation was over his statement that local service would not be good OTA. This installer, by the way, upon the original installation made no effort to tune the bi-directional OTA antenna. In fact, he had it pointed to 180/360 degrees when the NYC stations transmit from 231 degrees relative to my house and the CT. stations 55 dregrees relative to my house. I believe that this is not entirely the fault of the installer but was a reflection of Voom's failure to deal with the OTA issues with proper training of installers.
I continued to pursue this. After several addional calls and some incredible misinformation from CSRs (like the FCC allows Voom to provide only certain OTA stations via an off-air antenna and that there are only two digital channels from New York City!) I finally got Pamela in the escalation unit who was very patient and fianlly agreed to schedule an installer visit (at my cost if the installer found that an antenna upgrade would not help). I insisted upon a different installer who has now been to my house, re-oriented the existing antenna and has endorsed an antenna upgrade. This is a can do guy with a positive attitude. The final chapter is not yet written and we will see what happens.
This whole thing is a sad commentary on the expertise of the Voom CSRs and the effectiveness of Installs, Inc.. I laugh every time I call their 800 number which tells me that if I am a "valued existing Voom customer" to press 3. Somehow, I must have been getting the "unvalued existing Voom customr" line.
Like the vast majority of other posters to this sight I have been really enjoying the Voom satellite sevice and deeply regret that it will not survive much longer (unless the FCC turns down the transfer of licenses to E*).
Martin21
My experience regarding OTA reception has been a trial in itself. I have spent hours on it. An antenna upgrade had been scheduled by a CSR for me but was unilaterally cancelled by the installer with the notation "no line of sight". This was the same installer who hooked me up originally but he did not revisit my house regarding the upgrade. Neither he nor anyone else connected with Voom communicated to me that the installer took it on his own to cancel. This same installer originally got angry, seemingly with me, because he had to come back to my house for a second time because I cancelled the first appointment for installation but then changed my mind. My original hesitation was over his statement that local service would not be good OTA. This installer, by the way, upon the original installation made no effort to tune the bi-directional OTA antenna. In fact, he had it pointed to 180/360 degrees when the NYC stations transmit from 231 degrees relative to my house and the CT. stations 55 dregrees relative to my house. I believe that this is not entirely the fault of the installer but was a reflection of Voom's failure to deal with the OTA issues with proper training of installers.
I continued to pursue this. After several addional calls and some incredible misinformation from CSRs (like the FCC allows Voom to provide only certain OTA stations via an off-air antenna and that there are only two digital channels from New York City!) I finally got Pamela in the escalation unit who was very patient and fianlly agreed to schedule an installer visit (at my cost if the installer found that an antenna upgrade would not help). I insisted upon a different installer who has now been to my house, re-oriented the existing antenna and has endorsed an antenna upgrade. This is a can do guy with a positive attitude. The final chapter is not yet written and we will see what happens.
This whole thing is a sad commentary on the expertise of the Voom CSRs and the effectiveness of Installs, Inc.. I laugh every time I call their 800 number which tells me that if I am a "valued existing Voom customer" to press 3. Somehow, I must have been getting the "unvalued existing Voom customr" line.
Like the vast majority of other posters to this sight I have been really enjoying the Voom satellite sevice and deeply regret that it will not survive much longer (unless the FCC turns down the transfer of licenses to E*).
Martin21
regarding. earlier post on installs: no antenna the installers tried would work. im 15 miles from the farm. yet the zenith set top hdtv antenna will pick up all of them from the farm. but is sensitive directionally for the others. i bet the 2nd cable to the stb, bypassing the diplexers would work better with an outside antenna. installers are supposed to do this per their contract{so i have read on this forum} mine did not and then tried to bust me for 234.95 after 3 visits. i have lit voom and installs up as far as escalating the issue. but to no avail.for 3 weeks. anyone with any ideas please let me know. thanx, sam
Minor issue...
The lack of a dvr is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. Sure, it's big for people like us around here but again, speaking about the general public, most peolpe could care less about a dvr. I've had one since the first gen Tivo. I tried to GIVE it away to family members. Nobody wanted it! And I had the lifetime sub so it wasn't a cost issue. People, as a whole, don't care about a dvr. It is, however, becoming more common to see them but it's far from being a must have for most of the people out there.
And no, there isn't necessarily enough programing available. Let's take a look at what's available:
-Movie channels--ok, pretty much covered.
-General interest (i.e. DiscoveryHD)--not really covered as channels like the History Channel and other Discovery-type channels are not HD yet.
-The big 5 (ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox/PBS)--although they have been broadcasting in HD not everything is broadcast in HD. VERY confusing for most customers. Just go to any general HT site and read posts from newbies about those black/gray bars on the sides to get an idea of just how confusing.
That about covers the type of programming out there and, although there is a LOT more than there was a couple of years ago, it's hardly what I could call a enough Hd programming.
It all boils down to people just not wanting to, "buy," into HD whether because of price or just the general inconvenience/need to change viewing habits of HDTV.
The Rickster
The lack of a dvr is a minor issue in the grand scheme of things. Sure, it's big for people like us around here but again, speaking about the general public, most peolpe could care less about a dvr. I've had one since the first gen Tivo. I tried to GIVE it away to family members. Nobody wanted it! And I had the lifetime sub so it wasn't a cost issue. People, as a whole, don't care about a dvr. It is, however, becoming more common to see them but it's far from being a must have for most of the people out there.
And no, there isn't necessarily enough programing available. Let's take a look at what's available:
-Movie channels--ok, pretty much covered.
-General interest (i.e. DiscoveryHD)--not really covered as channels like the History Channel and other Discovery-type channels are not HD yet.
-The big 5 (ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox/PBS)--although they have been broadcasting in HD not everything is broadcast in HD. VERY confusing for most customers. Just go to any general HT site and read posts from newbies about those black/gray bars on the sides to get an idea of just how confusing.
That about covers the type of programming out there and, although there is a LOT more than there was a couple of years ago, it's hardly what I could call a enough Hd programming.
It all boils down to people just not wanting to, "buy," into HD whether because of price or just the general inconvenience/need to change viewing habits of HDTV.
The Rickster
It isn't absolutely one thing that caused the demise or potentially of Voom. This is my personal experience. Two Install's, Inc. techs stood in defense of their operation. I gave them credit. What I did say, that was not my experience in my geographical location. I was simply expressing my utter frustration as to the unprofessional behavior. If it appeared I have been too callous, I apologize. BUT, I do feel installation experiences and installer's lack of experience and motivation have played a substantial part in the demise of Voom.
I think most of you will agree 11 visits is a little over the top.
Vicki, if they had applied a pre-amp to your situation, chances are, you would still be a happy Voom client.
I am not bad mouthing anyone as those are my real experiences.
I think most of you will agree 11 visits is a little over the top.
Vicki, if they had applied a pre-amp to your situation, chances are, you would still be a happy Voom client.
I am not bad mouthing anyone as those are my real experiences.
