VOOM DBS And The FCC

[GadgetRick]

Ok, say the FCC does smoke some crack and denies the whole thing. Then what? You think CVC is going to fund Voom to keep it going!!?? Not gonna happen. It's a losing business model (unfortunately) and they already voted to not fund it any longer than they have to.

Do you think there's some, "Knight in Shining Armor," who will rescue Voom and make all of the 30,000 (or less) Voomers happy? If so, who would that be and why have they not come out of the shadows they're hiding in to buy the satellite anyway?

The bottom line is, IF I agreed what you're doing is the right thing, I don't see the FCC stopping this. They may, as has been mentioned say, "Go ahead, sell the satellite but we're keeping the frequencies," but I think that's about all you'd get out of it. That just leaves you in limbo-land totally. At least, with Echostar, you have an idea of what the satellite/frequencies will be used for. Heck, they could auction of the frequencies to someone broadcasting just audio or something. Not very good for competition in the HD world is it now...

I guess I still just don't understand how the purchase of a satellite is bad for us consumers. I can see how Voom failing is bad for consumers but you can't change that in the current market. Stopping the sale of the satellite will certainly not help that either.

The Rickster

 

[Sean Mota]

I am not saying that FCC will deny the transfer of the frequencies because they want CVC to keep funding VOOM. That does not make sense at all. Everybody seems to think that the transfers of the frequencies is a done deal and Echostar will get them automatically. One never knows what the FCC can do in a situation like this. We all can speculate what we want but it is not a done deal yet.

As far as the letter to the FCC goes, I haven't written mine but I will. I think whether mine ends up in the trash or not does not matter. What really matters is that I am exercising a right to speak of public property that can affect every American. Anyone is also invited to write to the FCC and make the argument why you think it will be good for Echostar to get these frequencies or you could remain in silence mode.

There are lots of things, we as American, do not participate because the rationale is "it does not matter". Best example is about Voting in General Elections. But that's another discussion.

As far as "White Knight" coming to the rescue, it is a possibility that we could not discard nor we can say that it will happen. There's so much that we do not know yet but eventually we will have to know.

The fact that VOOM is still operating as "business as usual" says that upper management have not been told to stop the whole Voom operation yet. Why keep something for 90 days or more that keeps losing money? Why Why? It makes no sense to keep afloat until the FCC decision. It will make more sense to just shut it off right now and not look back. However, they haven't and we are still discussing the possibilities of what this "silence" could mean. As I say no one knows yet but we will soon know whether VOOM will continue or will be shutdown (which is what most people expect).

 

[GadgetRick]

Good point...

I am not saying that FCC will deny the transfer of the frequencies because they want CVC to keep funding VOOM. That does not make sense at all. Everybody seems to think that the transfers of the frequencies is a done deal and Echostar will get them automatically. One never knows what the FCC can do in a situation like this. We all can speculate what we want but it is not a done deal yet

Good point Sean. I agree the frequencies may (or may not) be transferred. And whether they get transferred or not is a different question for this purchase. However, I would have to believe, should the transfer not be approved, Echostar would back out of the deal. It is speculation but we all know they need/want more bandwidth and this is the quickest way for them to get it. On top of that, it's actually useable bandwidth requiring minimal changes on their part (and the subs' part) to use it. This is not the case with dtv as they'd have to do a lot in order to use this bandwidth on this satellite.

The fact that VOOM is still operating as "business as usual" says that upper management have not been told to stop the whole Voom operation yet. Why keep something for 90 days or more that keeps losing money? Why Why? It makes no sense to keep afloat until the FCC decision. It will make more sense to just shut it off right now and not look back. However, they haven't and we are still discussing the possibilities of what this "silence" could mean. As I say no one knows yet but we will soon know whether VOOM will continue or will be shutdown (which is what most people expect).

Although it's certainly not a bad sign they're still business as usual it doesn't mean they won't be shutting down. Now, shutting down means many things in this situation. I believe Echostar is going to work to provide as much of the same programming as they can to their subs. I have no idea what's involved in this from a contract standpoint but I'd have to believe they'd love to keep a lot of the same stuff. I also don't believe we'll turn the set on one day and find Voom no longer works without some type of warning. Sure, this has happened with companies in the past but not very often.

Honestly, I think the deafening silence is more telling. If they're planning on doing all of the things many of us believe they will do they really can't say much as it would (potentially) break laws and the FTC has been REAL careful with these kinds of situations. I've worked for a few (yes a few) companies who were bought out and, typically, they'll tell you a lot more about what's going to happen but it's very general. "We're going to try and make the transition is smooth and look to not displace people if we can help it." Next thing you know your boss is calling you and telling you there is no longer a position for you. They just can't say much of anything and maybe they feel no matter what they say it'll get them in trouble. Sometimes silence makes more sense.

Oh well, we're off topic again. Back to the original topic. I certainly like the fact we all have the right to express our opinions to people like the FCC. Heck, I express opinions to many companies/government groups/online myself. In this situation, I just wonder what good could come from the FCC denying the transfer of those frequencies. That's all. I haven't really read any compelling arguments as to why I should contact the FCC and ask them not to allow it. Sure I love what Voom can provide but, from a business standpoint, Voom is not working so why try and stop them from selling off and licking their wounds?

The Rickster

 

[Tvlman]

If you guys would spend the time and energy writing the FCC rather than each other it might help make a case. Was Dolan denied the right to buy his own company as alleged by others on this forum???

 

[mattb]

Sean: While I would love to see a third DBS provider succeed I don't believe that the 61.5 location has an adequate footprint to provide for that possibility. If the FCC wants to see a third successful satellite company (I personally don't think it's going to happen) they need to provide a more centralized slot. IMHO.


NightRyder

The problem is, V* did have licenses at 166 or 175 ( I cant remember) but those would easly served the West portion of the US but they never did build a satellite there (it was easier for them to just use their 61.5 assets and hope the west coast could see it. )

 

[bradley]

mattb,

CVC did announce a contract for additional units with Lockheed/Martin.

For more info... go to voom.com, about, press releases (top-left corner). VOOM CSRs are still saying the company has full intentions on fulfilling their commitments?!?

 

[bradley]

"Thanks David, I hope something positive comes out of this for you and all the Voom congregation . Cablevision needs to step up and provide definitive information on their plans and put all these rumors and speculations to rest. NightRyder"

Let me get this straight...

KnightRyder isn't even a Voom client? Echostar - Examine posts.

 

[James Long]

... 3rd ...

Voom is the fourth DBS provider. There were three remaining from the initial entrants when they entered the market in October 2003. And there are still three other providers.

E* + 11TPs is not the same as E* + D*.
E* + D* would have been 96 transponders on the central satellite slots of 101-110-119 and no one close in competition. E* has 50 TPs on 110-119, D* has 46 TPs. Not a bad balance.

D* has shown no interest in getting a wing slot (east or west). E* got the rest of 157 and V* got both 166 and 175 last year. I suspect that when V* tries to sell the unbuilt 166 and 175 slots the FCC will take interest. Assuming V* doesn't just lose them back to the government by default.

The FCC may want to reserve RainbowDBS' spectrum for the next attempt at providing a viable alternative service. But I suspect that if they denied E* takover of the licenses it will end up in the courts. They can't just refuse the sale willy-nilly. They need a reason that won't be overthrown.

JL

 

[bradley]

justalurker,

After examining your posts you appear to do nothing but insult and bring grief to the forum. Your handle speaks for itself. And, you obviously derive pleasure instilling pain in other's. Continue this behavior and you are looking at censure.

From what you discuss, it does not appear you are a Voom Client.

You never have anything positive to contribute.

Perhaps it is time for you to move on and annoy some forum other than SatelliteGuys.US?

 

[James Long]

After examining your posts you appear to do nothing but insult and bring grief to the forum.

If you don't like it, there is the IGNORE function.

Your tirades are tiresome in themselves, but yet I persist. Because people like you who are wrong need to see the truth and not be left to corrupt unsuspecting readers.

JL

 

[bryan27]

I found something of major importance. On December 3rd the FCC released 04-217 this pertained to Auction-52 and who is eligible for DBS licenses. This also shows the FCC's desire to have additional DBS providers and one of them at 61.5 as it is the only slot left that can view the Easter US. Keep in mind this was only released 2 months ago and the same feeling is probably at the FCC today. It does appear highly likely the FCC will not allow the transfer of VOOM's 11 TPs to Echostar. Perhaps the best thing E* will get is an STA to use the frequencies like it did before VOOM went in service.

Rather than post the entire document I will present excerpts here or you may download and read the entire document http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-04-271A1.doc

"Our principal goal here is to enhance the possibility that an additional DBS provider can develop because we believe that a marketplace with additional competitors would likely result in such public benefits as greater price competition, additional new services, and increased technological innovation. Moreover, even if an additional DBS licensee used the 61.5º channels not to become a major competitor but instead to provide programming and other services significantly different from the services provided by existing DBS providers serving all 50 states, the provision of such additional choices to consumers should nevertheless have substantial benefits to those customers, especially in those rural or suburban locations unserved by cable systems or served only by low channel capacity cable systems."

"We note, for example, that although Rainbow DBS is currently authorized to operate on only 11 channels plus the two channels for which it has an STA, it has attempted to differentiate its VOOM DBS service from other competitors by advertising that it has more HDTV channels than any other DBS provider."

"...it is unclear how long Rainbow DBS will be able to assert that it provides more high definition DBS channels than any other DBS provider. Nevertheless, we conclude that it is in the public interest to provide an additional DBS provider with an opportunity to increase competition with the two major DBS providers currently serving the 50 states."

"We note too that although our decision here is based on unique circumstances, and we do not consider it to constitute a precedent for other situations as EchoStar contends it will be, we find that it is in keeping with other past Commission decisions to adopt a license eligibility restriction in order to promote competition."

 

[bradley]

brayn27,

I browsed the FCC archives on-line today, thumbing through what documentation is available pertaining to Echostar's past petitions / applications.

Without exception, Echostar has yet to argue a rational explanation to promote their proposed actions to the Commission that would not ultimately lead to monopolization.

I almost get the impression the Commission is leery of Echostar's constant attempt to gain favor.

As you've stated, it appears the Commission has taken their stand.

Speculation.

 

[rocatman]

I first want to make a comment about the FCC and their attitude towards competition and DBS licensing frequencies. Voom, DirecTV and Dish have all pursued using other frequencies to provide satellite television service to U.S. customers. Specifically, Voom with the lease agreement for Ku band on AMC-6 at 72.5 W and their contract with Lockheed Martin for Ka band satellites, DirecTV with their Ka band Spaceway satellites and I believe also obtaining Ku band licenses at various locations, and Dish with Ku band at 85 W, 105 W and 121 W and various KuX and Ka band licenses. There is also Dominion/Sky Angel with DBS licenses at 61.5 W operating off of the Echostar-3 satellite. In addition, Spectrum Five has petitioned the FCC to operating two DBS satellites at 114.5 W. Yes, DBS frequencies are more desirable than Ku, KuX and Ka band because they require smaller dishes but I think a company could compete using these other frequencies that are more available. Obviously, Voom has DBS frequencies but it does not appear like it can compete because of other factors that I won't go into here. The FCC decision related to the two DBS frequencies at 61.5 W was ridiculous. Does anybody really think a company could provide any true competition to DirecTV, Dish or a cable company with only two frequencies? I believe there were strong political motives behind this decision. Let's just say that DirecTV was the big winner in this decision.

The second item I want to point out is that Dish/Echostar recently withdrew a request to the FCC for the transfer of the Voom/Rainbow licenses at 61.5 W. See page 4 of the link below. There could be any number of reasons for this but I have to believe the sale of Rainbow-1 is contingent on the FCC approval of the transfer of the DBS licenses. I guess now there will be some wild speculation about the Rainbow-1 deal but isn't that what makes these forums interesting.


http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-256474A1.pdf

 

[Lobstah]

"I guess now there will be some wild speculation about the Rainbow-1 deal but isn't that what makes these forums interesting. "

Exactly

So without reading the document...does this mean the deal is dead? As in what good is the sat if you don't have the licenses to use it?

Lob

 

[rocatman]

"I guess now there will be some wild speculation about the Rainbow-1 deal but isn't that what makes these forums interesting. "

Exactly

So without reading the document...does this mean the deal is dead? As in what good is the sat if you don't have the licenses to use it?

Lob

I wouldn't assume that the deal is dead. Dish may have realized that their request was lacking some information or some information was incorrect or that they had to use a different FCC process/form. Regarding the satellite, Dish may want to buy it anyway along with the uplink center perhaps at a lower price to use it at some other location such as 148 W or 157 W although the spotbeam capabilities of the Rainbow-1 satellite provide extra value. If the FCC won't approve the transfer of the 11 DBS frequencies to Dish, Dish could work a deal with the FCC to have access to all frequencies for a year or so then trade their currently licensed 11 DBS frequencies for Voom's 11 DBS frequencies in order to use the spotbeams on Rainbow-1.

 

[riffjim4069]

Perhaps they just decided to replace their existing sat at 61.5 with the Rainbow-1 sat. Who knows at this point.

 

[Bruce]

"I guess now there will be some wild speculation about the Rainbow-1 deal but isn't that what makes these forums interesting. "

Exactly

So without reading the document...does this mean the deal is dead? As in what good is the sat if you don't have the licenses to use it?

Lob

It means nothing as far as Rainbow 1 goes, it has everything to do with Auction 52 which is about spectrum at different slots in the sky, what E* and V* have going on about that spectrum we do not know and that is what the "wild speculation" should be about.

 

[bryan27]

Does anybody really think a company could provide any true competition to DirecTV, Dish or a cable company with only two frequencies?

There are different types of competition. The discussion from the FCC on 61.5 is not that a new DBS service would provide a rival and equal competition to D* or E*, but could provide different, possibly niche DBS services. For instance Dominion is a DBS competitor, but it's competion is not equal to that of D* & E*. It's competition is it provides a niche DBS service and offers a different choice of programming. That is what the FCC is getting at.

Dominion uses only 2 frequencies for it's competing service so it is entirely possible to start a competing service with only 2 frequencies.

In addition, Spectrum Five has petitioned the FCC to operating two DBS satellites at 114.5 W.

The FCC looks at current conditions, the petiton for 114.5w is not in the current DBS makeup, it has been in the FCC files for several years and waiting for studies before it can be moved through. What would happen if it is found after giving E* the 11 DBS frequencies at 61.5 that 114.5w can't be used for DBS? Any new DBS enterants would be SOL because E* & D* own all the frequencies.

DBS providers using KA-Band or KU-FSS are not the same as DBS frequencies. D* & E* chose to expand service in those bands. If an entity wants to enter in to the DBS market and utilize an 18' dish it can't if all the DBS frequencies are controled by D* & E*.

BTW great document find. I would say the deal might be in jeopardy.

Dish may have realized that their request was lacking some information or some information was incorrect or that they had to use a different FCC process/form.

Not likely. The people that file applications for large corporations do not make fundamental mistakes like using the wrong form. You don't pay people hundreds of thousands of dollars to file the wrong forms. If an application was lacking information or if information was incorrect you do not withdraw your application you file an amendment. When you withdraw an application you tell the FCC not to proceed and to dismiss the application.

 

[riffjim4069]

I have already drafted a letter and contacted the commission. In a nutshell, public comments will be accepted once the FCC has assigned a docket number to this request.

 

[rocatman]

Not likely. The people that file applications for large corporations do not make fundamental mistakes like using the wrong form. You don't pay people hundreds of thousands of dollars to file the wrong forms. If an application was lacking information or if information was incorrect you do not withdraw your application you file an amendment. When you withdraw an application you tell the FCC not to proceed and to dismiss the application.

I have reviewed a great number of FCC dealings recently and I have seen applications rejected by the FCC from large corporations including Dish/Echostar because of improper or inadequate information. It does happen and probably more often recently because the FCC has been changing their processes. In addition, Dish/Echostar has a contract with Voom/Rainbow for the purchase of the satellite and the licenses for the frequencies and I have to believe it is contingent on FCC approval of the transfer of the licenses. Dish/Echostar probably needs a rejection by the FCC to void the contract and withdrawing the application doesn't cut it from a legal standpoint.