VOOM Goes BOOM - update Dish Drops all 15 VOOM Channels
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Exactly right!
Geronimo really has no basis for his assertion that Voom on E* was a failed business model. It happens to look like a failed business model at the moment (and maybe forever) because E* decided they no longer cared for the arrangement they made and are attempting to terminate it. While I'd agree that the business model is/was not great by Voom not attempting to or not even trying to reach carriage agreements with other providers, one has to look back at what the situation was in 2005. E* wanted the Voom DBS assets, had the capacity to put up 10 to 21 Voom channels which gave E* a significant lead in HD channels numbers when HD channels were in their infancy, and is basically bailing on the deal they struck. Yes, I realize that Voom has allegedly failed to live up to the yearly programming spending requirement at least once, but we shall see how that plays out in court, unless some sort of settlement is reached sooner.
Thete is absolutely NO evidence that VOOM would have been profitable in 2009. The statement that it would be is the assertion that has no basis. When VOOM changed from its own service to one sold to other providers that was the plan. But they never found ANY customers for the service beyond their two owners. Do you honestly believe that it was part of that original business plan to not have any additional domestic customers?
Yes E* scored a coup by buying the VOOM assets and then following that up by getting rights to what was left of the service but that has NOTHING to do with whether VOOM capitalized on the asset and marketed it proporly. Clarly they did not.
I enjoyed some of the VOOM channels. But some of you just think that VOOM could do no wrong. Sorry but they did. they failed to successfully market the product and they were therefore more vulnerable than they had to be to DISH deciding that there were better ways to spend the money.
Hopefully they will try to market it now.
Yes E* scored a coup by buying the VOOM assets and then following that up by getting rights to what was left of the service but that has NOTHING to do with whether VOOM capitalized on the asset and marketed it proporly. Clarly they did not.
I enjoyed some of the VOOM channels. But some of you just think that VOOM could do no wrong. Sorry but they did. they failed to successfully market the product and they were therefore more vulnerable than they had to be to DISH deciding that there were better ways to spend the money.
Hopefully they will try to market it now.
I agree, but it was clear they decided their business model would be to milk the domestic E* contact (extremely lucrative post 2009 based on what has been asserted by VOOM), and only build their foreign programming markets.
I tend to agree...I would like to see Rainbow Media finally start marketing VOOM to the masses. Regardless of how I feel about the E*/V* dispute, it's about time VOOM started to sell their wares based on free market needs. Will they do this? I am not sure, but I don't see where they have much choice if they are going to keep the VOOM product operational since the dispute with E* will take years to conclude in the courts.
Perhaps Rainbow should shuttle the VOOM HD service since they have controlling interest (it has only lost money since 2005), buyout E*'s 20% equity which will cost them nothing, and revive/revant/remake/remarket the former VOOM programming lineup under the Rainbow Media LLC moniker.
It is sort of sad if that really is the only model to pursue at this time. It si too bad that this whole thing could not have a different ending. I know that some of you think that si an attack on VOOM but it is really just looking at the whole thing realistically.
Do you have ANY evidence that Voom would NOT be profitable in 2009?
Do you honestly have ANY evidence that it was part of that original business plan to have ANY additional domestic customers?
Your statements are as much conjecture as those you seek to refute.
Why should whether Voom ever secured a carriage agreement with any other provider be of any relevance to the deal with E*? The deal with E*, solely, called for Voom to become profitable eventually (roughly 2009-2010). There is nothing fundamentally wrong with a decision to provide a service to one particular company. How many other companies outside the GM family does OnStar provide their service? it would probably be better if OnStar was available on Ford, Chrysler, and others, but this does not necessarily make OnStar a failed business model.
Voom can do plenty wrong (and has). E* is not blameless in this matter, either.
I also concure that it is better to not have all your eggs in one basket.
Do you have ANY evidence that it WOULd with only TWO customers?
You see my statements as conjecture. But I see them as responses to people taking "evidence" that VOOm PANNED to be profitable in 2009 asproof that they somehow or another would be in spite ofa complete inability (or unwillingness) to market themselves.
But YES I DO have evidence that suggests that VOOM would not have achieved profitability in 2009 and my source is VOOM.
The articles I have seen on Multichannel News and elsewhere (including the amended complaint) say that VOOM when VOOM was forecasting profitability in 2009 they were forecasting 11 million subs by the end of 2009. Niow I ask you even with DISH were they going to get to that number? If they did not get to their own forecasts of what it takes to makea profit how were they going to reach profitability?
BTW that same VOOM amended compalint said that DISH had 1.3 million HD subs by the end of 2007. I have no idea where theare now. Probably a higher number but I don't see them or VOOM getting to that magic number by the end of 2009. In fact only VOOM seems to forecast a number that rosy for DISH sybs. It just sounds unrealsitic to me.
Asfor E being "blameless' I never said that. i have said that their actions are understandable in light of the business realities. But that does not mean that they are not in some way reasonable for the mess or even that tehy were totally justified. Just that I understand it.
While i miss some of VOOM I am also realistic. I have said consistently that they should have treated the income from Echostar as seed money and tried to sell themselves elsewhere. You may see that as slighting VOOM or attacking it but the truth is that I am simply saying that their might have been a better course of action for them to follow on the business side.
even most pro VOOMers can see that thsi si what I meant---even some that may have different opinions about some of it.
But yes I think that VOOm was doomed to failure unless someone---most likely Rainbow subsidized them a good bit longer---or they manged to market beyond two domestic customers.
You see my statements as conjecture. But I see them as responses to people taking "evidence" that VOOm PANNED to be profitable in 2009 asproof that they somehow or another would be in spite ofa complete inability (or unwillingness) to market themselves.
But YES I DO have evidence that suggests that VOOM would not have achieved profitability in 2009 and my source is VOOM.
The articles I have seen on Multichannel News and elsewhere (including the amended complaint) say that VOOM when VOOM was forecasting profitability in 2009 they were forecasting 11 million subs by the end of 2009. Niow I ask you even with DISH were they going to get to that number? If they did not get to their own forecasts of what it takes to makea profit how were they going to reach profitability?
BTW that same VOOM amended compalint said that DISH had 1.3 million HD subs by the end of 2007. I have no idea where theare now. Probably a higher number but I don't see them or VOOM getting to that magic number by the end of 2009. In fact only VOOM seems to forecast a number that rosy for DISH sybs. It just sounds unrealsitic to me.
Asfor E being "blameless' I never said that. i have said that their actions are understandable in light of the business realities. But that does not mean that they are not in some way reasonable for the mess or even that tehy were totally justified. Just that I understand it.
While i miss some of VOOM I am also realistic. I have said consistently that they should have treated the income from Echostar as seed money and tried to sell themselves elsewhere. You may see that as slighting VOOM or attacking it but the truth is that I am simply saying that their might have been a better course of action for them to follow on the business side.
even most pro VOOMers can see that thsi si what I meant---even some that may have different opinions about some of it.
But yes I think that VOOm was doomed to failure unless someone---most likely Rainbow subsidized them a good bit longer---or they manged to market beyond two domestic customers.
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Voom has great programs and we definately miss channels like the Treasure HD, Equator HD, Ultra HD, Rave HD, Rush HD, etc.
What I think is sad is that dish never tried to market them at all! Voom would be a great asset to differentiate themselves against Directv and the couple of cable options. Now dish is no different that Directv other than being more expensive and treating their customers like crap!
The problem in the US now is that it that there is very little options. As one person said most people are used to watching crap and never heard of Voom. In CA my only options for TV are dish, Directv, and Comcast.
Voom was never marketed by dish and it was never marketed to the mass market. All I hope for is that they are once again availble for us in CA. To me if you are still giving your business to dish and if you liked Voom then the longer you stay with dish the more you are justifying Charlie and their treatment of Voom. I am getting my Directv service today and will send a written letter to voice our opions of dish and how we hate them dropping Voom! I think what would be more constructive is for Voom lovers to continue to request Voom from Directv, Comcast and any other provider in your area; along with canceling dish and making sure they know it was due to Voom being removed. That seems a lot more constructive than trying to play CEO about should have, could have, would have online?
What I think is sad is that dish never tried to market them at all! Voom would be a great asset to differentiate themselves against Directv and the couple of cable options. Now dish is no different that Directv other than being more expensive and treating their customers like crap!
The problem in the US now is that it that there is very little options. As one person said most people are used to watching crap and never heard of Voom. In CA my only options for TV are dish, Directv, and Comcast.
Voom was never marketed by dish and it was never marketed to the mass market. All I hope for is that they are once again availble for us in CA. To me if you are still giving your business to dish and if you liked Voom then the longer you stay with dish the more you are justifying Charlie and their treatment of Voom. I am getting my Directv service today and will send a written letter to voice our opions of dish and how we hate them dropping Voom! I think what would be more constructive is for Voom lovers to continue to request Voom from Directv, Comcast and any other provider in your area; along with canceling dish and making sure they know it was due to Voom being removed. That seems a lot more constructive than trying to play CEO about should have, could have, would have online?
I dont think that dish cares one iota. They seemed to westhered this storm so far. They are bascically laughing about this.
They pulled a fast one and got away with it.
Nothing we can do will bring them back on..
I bummed by all of it.
It will be interesting to see the quarters growth/retention #s. It seems like more than the usual have switched not just because of Voom. PQ, hd channels, cost all seem to be going D*s way at the moment. Charlie just keeps on F'n up. Now even the Voom haters see that Charlie didn't have a plan to replace the 15 channels he axed. It also seems that the opinion of most members on these new hd channels isn't that favarable.
you are probably right about this. Everything we read says that the sides are not even talking and you would think that if they were that VOOM at least would want people to know this.
Whatever level of customer dissatisfaction DISH viewed as unacceptable was apparently not reached. I am speculating here but I would have thought that if a peaceful reolution ws possible it would have happened quickly.
But if folks are truly upset they should vote with their feet.
Are you implying folks should kick Charlie's arse?
Seriously, we left because I couldn't take anymore HD-Lite...we're very happy with FiOS TV, although we miss the 622 and VOOM channels.
Reintroduce Voom as the ''true'' HD leader
Or in this case their wallet.
dish is hemoraging to direc and now possibly at@t..and of course Voom down the road.
They need to put these fires out quickly.
The PR for dish is a nightmare..if they were smart they would patch things up
with voom asap.
Reintroduce them as our VALUED partner. Make a big deal out of it.
No mention of the past.
Show off the fact that Voom is unique and that dish is the ''only '' sat provider to carry this world class 24hr hd suite.
Dish needs this badly. Not continued duplication of other providers. They need to separarte themselves from the competition.
FAST!
Or in this case their wallet.
dish is hemoraging to direc and now possibly at@t..and of course Voom down the road.
They need to put these fires out quickly.
The PR for dish is a nightmare..if they were smart they would patch things up
with voom asap.
Reintroduce them as our VALUED partner. Make a big deal out of it.
No mention of the past.
Show off the fact that Voom is unique and that dish is the ''only '' sat provider to carry this world class 24hr hd suite.
Dish needs this badly. Not continued duplication of other providers. They need to separarte themselves from the competition.
FAST!
What makes you say that Juan? Have you seen any numbers for the last month or so?
BTW I don't know where the folks saying they are losing customers to directV are getting that info from either. Just trying to be fair. Can either side tell us wher they are getting the idea from.
I'll take a wild guess- maybe because D* is superior in just about every way. It would only make sense that people are going to D* after E* really hasn't done much in the last year. PQ is getting much worse and they nickle and dime you for every little thing. Yes they added like 20 new hd channels but most of them at this point are extremely lame. D* just put up another operational sat so they should be adding even more. At this point in time the grass is definately greener over at D*. I can't see how E* will be able to compete with D* over the next two years. And why wouldn't Charlie have a bunch of contracts already to go with new hd networks after dropping Voom? Its been two months and all they added was a Chicago station.
What I wasasking Apologist is does either side have any actual data to support their impressions? Perhaps i did not ask correctly. I am not saying that you are wrong. Just wondering in light of different people making comments that seem
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VOOM down the road? Are you saying that you think VOOM will get back into the DBS business?
Not True
I am a customer Dish will lose because of this action.
I hope VOOM gets there money, then maybe Dish will realise it's the customers that come first.
To me what set Dish apart from other services was VOOM. I bought Dish to get[LEFT said:
Voom
and now that they no longer have Voom
, then they are no different then what I had except now Direct has more to offer...DISH doe's not do right by there customers. I turned on my TV to find out I know longer had VOOM, nothing in the mail, no phone call, just no more Voom. VOOM gave me true HI-DEF not all that up- converted crap. I have 11 month's left on my contract and will pay to get out of it, if Direct gets Voom.I am a customer Dish will lose because of this action.
I hope VOOM gets there money, then maybe Dish will realise it's the customers that come first.
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