WBRE and WYOU in PA question

Discussion in 'Over the Air TV By RabbitEars.Info' started by FTA4PA, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. FTA4PA

    FTA4PA Topic Starter Satellite Guys Family
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Posts:
    3,388
    Likes Received:
    1,446
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania
    Can anyone who normally receives WBRE and WYOU (both High VHF in Pennsylvania) confirm that these are presently on the air. Turned on tv to watch this evening and we get absolutely no signal from them using our main VHF antenna. I then tried a secondary VHF antenna and we get nothing on that one either. :what2 All other OTA channels we receive are UHF and are coming in fine. Thanks! :)
     
  2. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Posts:
    14,661
    Likes Received:
    1,843
    Location:
    Salem, OR
    Have you performed a channel scan recently? Both of those stations are moving (or have moved) frequencies as part of the reverse auction repack.

    It appears that WYOU isn't scheduled to move until phase 9. The rabbitears notations are a little obscure but it looks like it may be a two-stage move as they show it lit up on both RF13 and RF25 with a final destination of RF12.

    According to a rabbitears live band scan, someone picked the station up out of Poughkeepsie on RF13 in the last 24 hours but they can't receive it now. This may be a skip thing at that distance (~130 miles).

    Your best bet would be to call the stations and ask what's up.
     
    spongella and FTA4PA like this.
  3. Trip

    Trip RabbitEars Webmaster
    Staff Member HERE TO HELP YOU!

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Posts:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA, US
    WBRE is not moving in the repack. WYOU is moving from 13 to 12 in Phase 9, which is in 2020. (25 is their DRT in Waymart.)

    I've not heard anything, but I usually wouldn't hear about short outages.

    - Trip
     
    spongella and FTA4PA like this.
  4. FTA4PA

    FTA4PA Topic Starter Satellite Guys Family
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Posts:
    3,388
    Likes Received:
    1,446
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania
    Thanks to both of you for responding. I did some testing and found that the mast-mounted amp has failed on our main hi-vhf antenna. The secondary antenna I tried is smaller and was not providing enough signal to lock these. I got it working on the secondary after adding a better amp. Not as strong a signal as before but good enough until I can service the main antenna. Again, thank you for the replies. :)
     
  5. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Posts:
    14,661
    Likes Received:
    1,843
    Location:
    Salem, OR
    I could have sworn that there was a right-arrow on the RF frequency when I looked yesterday. It wouldn't be the first time I saw a ghost in tabular data.
    Is the semicolon your notation for a translator? I (as I suspect many others here) am not entirely well versed in FCC OTA TV TLAs.

    Some footnotes describing the notations would surely be useful if there isn't an practical way of inserting a tooltip.
     
  6. Trip

    Trip RabbitEars Webmaster
    Staff Member HERE TO HELP YOU!

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Posts:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA, US
    I didn't change anything.

    You spend enough time here that some of the TLAs should have worked their way into your head through osmosis! ;)

    But this is one of those cases where I wouldn't have done what the FCC did (and I wasn't with the FCC at the time). Digital Replacement Translators are licensed as part of the main facility, and that makes listing them a challenge. The semi-colon is how I ultimately settled on separating out those stations on their own physical channels, but even that isn't perfect. Ideally, they should be their own "stations" and I've done manually that in places where the DRT isn't a perfect mirror of its parent, but it's a lot of work and maintenance. This is a nice compromise.

    I try not to use documentation when feasible, as I never remember to keep it updated. Adding a mouse-over for it is probably the better solution. I'll ponder it.

    - Trip
     
  7. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Posts:
    14,661
    Likes Received:
    1,843
    Location:
    Salem, OR
    I fancy that's not the only challenge that globbing all the facilities together causes. It surely makes searching easier, but I imagine it kind of hurts trying to figure out what frequencies might be in use in the heart of the DMA.
     
  8. Radioguy41

    Radioguy41 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Posts:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    701
    Location:
    Lehighton, Pennsylvania
    Glad you got it figured out. How are you receiving WVIA ch 44? Starting a few weeks ago WMCN Princeton, NJ locks in at 44.1 and 44.2. 44.3 still locks as WVIA Create. Apparently WMCN is also broadcasting on virtual ch 44 but with them sharing WHYY (Wilmington DE) ch 12's transmitter there's no way they should be overriding WVIA here in NEPA.

    20190110_110457.jpg

    20190110_110610.jpg
     
  9. FTA4PA

    FTA4PA Topic Starter Satellite Guys Family
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Posts:
    3,388
    Likes Received:
    1,446
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania
    Thanks! :) We are getting WVIA at nearly 70% strength with 100% quality. I see they are now sharing transmission facitlities with WNEP (RF channel 50). We occasionally have a brief break up when the local Life Flight flies by but very steady reception other than that.
     
    #9 FTA4PA, Jan 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  10. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Posts:
    14,661
    Likes Received:
    1,843
    Location:
    Salem, OR
    Stations don't broadcast on virtual channels -- they broadcast on RF channels. If there is a collision between subchannel layouts, it falls on the viewer to clean up the mess. You should be able to whack the Wilmington subchannel after a channel scan.

    If there are a significant number of viewers who can pick up both stations, one of the stations should logically pick a new virtual channel (and those aren't constrained by the repack).
     
  11. spongella

    spongella SatelliteGuys Pro
    Pub Member / Supporter

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Posts:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    690
    Location:
    Central NJ
    WBRE is coming in fine here. Don't think I can get the other station.
     
    FTA4PA likes this.
  12. Radioguy41

    Radioguy41 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Posts:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    701
    Location:
    Lehighton, Pennsylvania
    In effect they do even though physically they don't because it doesn't matter what digital channel they actually broadcast on it's the PSIP that determines where it appears on your TV and both are using virtual ch 44. Rescanning (3 times) does not fix it. The FCC may have screwed this one up. WMCN was originally located in Atlantic City NJ but when they sold their freq they reached an agreement with WHYY to share with them. WHYY doesn't reach AC so the license was transferred to Princeton NJ and WMCN continued to use virtual ch 44. The problem comes about because WHYY's signals broadcast northward and I'm not sure the FCC took into consideration that there was an existing ch 44 northward. I can receive WHYY clear as a bell so it's not totally surprising that the shared broadcasting by WMCN also reaches here.
     
    spongella likes this.
  13. FTA4PA

    FTA4PA Topic Starter Satellite Guys Family
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Posts:
    3,388
    Likes Received:
    1,446
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania
    Perhaps you could try putting some sort of rf shield at the rear of your antenna to block out reception of the WHYY (WMCN) signal. This should (hopefully) allow WVIA to be picked up.
     
  14. spongella

    spongella SatelliteGuys Pro
    Pub Member / Supporter

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Posts:
    1,127
    Likes Received:
    690
    Location:
    Central NJ
    It's becoming more confusing as time goes by. I remember WMCN from AC, now it is in Princeton?
     
  15. Radioguy41

    Radioguy41 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Posts:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    701
    Location:
    Lehighton, Pennsylvania
    I lock 68 channels from all directions so it's not possible to shield just one.
     
  16. Radioguy41

    Radioguy41 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Posts:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    701
    Location:
    Lehighton, Pennsylvania
    The license is located in Princeton but the transmitter is in the Roxborough area of Philadelphia.
     
    spongella likes this.
  17. FTA4PA

    FTA4PA Topic Starter Satellite Guys Family
    Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2013
    Posts:
    3,388
    Likes Received:
    1,446
    Location:
    Central Pennsylvania
    Agreed, an rf shield may not be a viable option in your case. I do hope you can figure out a solution.
     
  18. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Posts:
    14,661
    Likes Received:
    1,843
    Location:
    Salem, OR
    Rescanning by itself won't fix the problem, You also have to manually remove (or "whack" as I said in my earlier post) WMCN's channel 44 from the table that each receiver maintains. I do this for a translator that is on the same virtual channel by design (Oregon has a lot of translators).

    If you want both stations, that's a serious problem. Stations are never happy about changing their virtual channel as that is their public face.
     
  19. Radioguy41

    Radioguy41 SatelliteGuys Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Posts:
    1,345
    Likes Received:
    701
    Location:
    Lehighton, Pennsylvania
    For the immediate future I'm going to let WVIA deal with it. I've emailed them about the issue and there is concern that WMCN is costing them viewership which means, since they are a PBS affiliate that relys on donations and fund raisers, that it could result in a loss of income. WVIA would have the most weight behind it to spur the FCC to force WMCN to change virtual channels.
     
    FTA4PA likes this.
  20. harshness

    harshness SatelliteGuys Master

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Posts:
    14,661
    Likes Received:
    1,843
    Location:
    Salem, OR
    Commercial channels are a least as interested in eyeballs as public stations. Commercial stations are paid based on the potential for reaching viewers. Fortunately for the commercial stations, it is pretty hard to figure out whether or not they actually cover the areas they claim.

    My guess is that it will take some time for a "rebranding" regardless of which station does it so you're probably doing to have to work around it in the interim.
     

Separate names with a comma.

More...