What E* told me about Voom programming...

[searswd]

I call E* to cancel my dish service when I was transferred to retention. The person on the other side stated that Voom's HD channels were not really HD but down rezzed. Basically stated that since no one else has those channels that they can not be real HD. Also accused me of not doing research on the matter...

Anyway, Is it true that Voom's HD channels are not really HD? I personally think the channels are excellent looking, but I would like some verification for the technical side of me .

Thanks!

 

[txdude]

Pure BS. Did you know that Retention CSRs have to meet quotas in most call centers? They will say and do anything, especially near the end of their shifts if they have been having a bad day. That's the best time to get big $$$ credits to your account.

 

[Nayl]

I remember when I canceled my dish a year or so back they put me through to those jerks guy got downright rude to me when he could not make me change my mind to the point it got about insulting.

 

[vurbano]

Vooms 21 exclusives are 1440x1080i. Is that HD? depends on your definition and your display equipment. But, if it isnt then D*'s HD certainly is not HD at 1280x1080i. Sure those 21 channels are not 1920x1080i like Dish's handful of 1080i channels but thats the rub. Dish only has a handful.

 

[Walter L.]

I call E* to cancel my dish service when I was transferred to retention. The person on the other side stated that Voom's HD channels were not really HD but down rezzed. Basically stated that since no one else has those channels that they can not be real HD.
...

Just for fun, I would have asked the CSR what's the meaning of "true HD". What resolution? what bitrate? He/she will probably will respond with :shocked

 

[txdude]

Vooms 21 exclusives are 1440x1080i. Is that HD? depends on your definition and your display equipment. But, if it isnt then D*'s HD certainly is not HD at 1280x1080i. Sure those 21 channels are not 1920x1080i like Dish's handful of 1080i channels but thats the rub. Dish only has a handful.

Exactly, and as far as I know anything that is higher than SD (480p) is technically and legally considered to be HD by the FCC whether any of us like it or not.

 

[DarrellP]

1440x1080i is about the max resolution for most HD TV's anyway. Not that I condone it. Maybe the providers should give us a partial refund since we are getting a partial picture, no?

Reminds me of a time when Blockbuster was selling most full frame DVD's, I walked into one and asked the guy behind the counter if I could have it for 1/3 off since they were only selling 2/3 of the movie. He was dumbfounded and didn't get it.

txdude, SD is 480i, 480p is EDTV, 720p starts HD.

 

[B.Greenway]

Those are some sad lies from Dish, I'd have to cancel based on being lied to if nothing else.

 

[James Long]

Exactly, and as far as I know anything that is higher than SD (480p) is technically and legally considered to be HD by the FCC whether any of us like it or not.

I don't recall any specific definition of HD from the FCC. The industry has a spec, only 720p or 1080i are HD formats and if push came to shove the FCC defers to the industry's definition.

JL

 

[softwiz]

I'll be the first to admit my new Mitsubishi 65615 with 7" CRTs cannot create 1920x1080i res. I heard you have to have 9" CRTs for that and 9" CRTs only come on the 73" Mitsubishi and up.

I don't know much about plasma and DLP however.

 

[cfarm]

I'll be the first to admit my new Mitsubishi 65615 with 7" CRTs cannot create 1920x1080i res. I heard you have to have 9" CRTs for that and 9" CRTs only come on the 73" Mitsubishi and up.

I don't know much about plasma and DLP however.

Samsung has 3 new DLP sets coming in June that will be 1080P capable(1920x1080). They were on display at CES in January.

 

[Voomin@720p]

If nothing is broadcast in 1080p then is this just an upconvert gimmic?

 

[zombie]

Samsung has 3 new DLP sets coming in June that will be 1080P capable(1920x1080). They were on display at CES in January.

Yeah they look nice.. There are already 1080p LCD tv's out... They are extremely expensive though..

 

[zombie]

If nothing is broadcast in 1080p then is this just an upconvert gimmic?

Would be good for HD-DVD if they ever ratify a single standard.... Think of the improvemnt of 480i->480p on current DVD players (although mine upconverts to 1080i pretty well)...

 

[vurbano]

actually the ATSC specs define 1920x1080i and 1280x720p and 1080p as the only HD formats I believe but this is an OTA broadcasting spec. There is no other definition. Ive always said we need one from the FCC and a minimum bitrate for each Codec. This is high definition right? not "better definition"? But then the anti govt intervention people slam the idea.

 

[vurbano]

Yeah they look nice.. There are already 1080p LCD tv's out... They are extremely expensive though..

I would be more than happy with 19 mbps 1080i or 720p. But we cant even get that. I bet 1080p will require even more bandwidth. I can see it now. Mpeg4 allowing us to add channels and get good PQ hopefully. Then 1080p putting us right back where we are now? If thats the case, then 1080i and 720p are good enough.

 

[zombie]

I would be more than happy with 19 mbps 1080i or 720p. But we cant even get that. I bet 1080p will require even more bandwidth. I can see it now. Mpeg4 allowing us to add channels and get good PQ hopefully. Then 1080p putting us right back where we are now? If thats the case, then 180i and 720p are good enough.

By using simple math 1080i to 1080p should double the required bandwith (double the pixels per frame, instead of 540 lines every frame youd have 1080 lines per frame)...

I dont think it will be a broadcast standard anytime real soon.. Broadcasters already want to downrez stuff to keep people from recording and selling...

 

[vurbano]

By using simple math 1080i to 1080p should double the required bandwith (double the pixels per frame, instead of 540 lines every frame youd have 1080 lines per frame)...

I dont think it will be a broadcast standard anytime real soon.. Broadcasters already want to downrez stuff to keep people from recording and selling...

then you would negate all advantages of mpeg4 and be in the same bandwidth delimma we are now. IMO its the last thing we need.

 

[dragon002]

720 starts HD, period

dragon

 

[James Long]

By using simple math 1080i to 1080p should double the required bandwith (double the pixels per frame, instead of 540 lines every frame youd have 1080 lines per frame)...

They are transmitting the same number of full frames. The three highest HDTV levels are:
1080/24p (x1920, Square or 16:9)
1080/30p (x1920, Square or 16:9)
1080/30i (x1920, Square or 16:9) = 1080i HDTV
These three are 2,073,600 pixels per frame (24p would be slighly lower bandwidth with the same compression due to less frames)

The next highest HDTV levels are (921,600 pixels):
720/24p (x1280, Square or 16:9)
720/30p (x1280, Square or 16:9)
720/60p (x1280, Square or 16:9)
24p would have the lowest bandwidth requirement moving up to 60p (60 full frames per second compared to 30 full frames in 30p or 30i formats).

The remainder of the 18 ATSC formats are not HD. ALL ATSC tuners MUST be able to tune ALL 18 formats. No ATSC TV is required to display *in* HD.

Monitors must be able to display 810i or 540p in the 16:9 viewable area to be defined as HD. Monitors less than 480p or NTSC are defined as SD. The middle ground is ED.

I'd like to see movies move to 1080/24p or 720/24p - primary movie channels in 1080 and additional channels in 720/24p or 480/24p. The 20% savings in frames can go toward decreasing the compression needed.

Voom has a 25% reduction by using 1440 width and DirecTV has 33% by using 1280. Going to 24p is a good way of saving 20% without losing a pixel.

JL