Who is the best pitcher to NEVER win the Cy Young award?

[Ramy]

Who is Raoul?
Anyway, if Rose only played 15 years, on average he would have had almost 3000 hits. That would get him in the HOF. All I am saying is that some players greatness wasn't in dominating the sport for their career, but being able to play at a high level for a long time.

True.

 

[AntAltMike]

We are eventually going to get to the point at which 3,000 hits doesn't get you into the Hall of Fame, because so many more players in the free agency era hang on at the end of their careers on for the salary. I don't think Paul Molitor deserves to be in the Hall, and if Bill Buckner had not had an unnecessary collision with Jim Dwyer at first base that hampered his mobility and shortened his career, he would have been the first player to reach 3,000 hits without getting in. At one time, every player who had 400 homers and was eligible was in, but by the time Dave Kingman got to the mid 350s, everyone knew he'd be the first to reach 400 but not be inducted.

If Rose had retired with just over 3,000 hits and a clean personal record, he'd have been borderline, but I think I'd have given him the nod because of the batting titles and 200 hit seasons.

 

[raoul5788]

If you don't think Molitor should be in since he was a DH for much of his career, I can't disagree, although he was so good I waffle on his election. That's why I could never vote for David Ortiz or anyone that spent so much time as a DH and never played much in the field. Kingman was nothing but a home run hitter. That should never qualify for the HOF. If Buckner hadn't gotten hurt he might have gotten in, but you could say that about a lot of players. If Mattingly didn't have back issues he may well have gotten in.

 

[madmadworld]

pitchers ?? :focus: :hula::

 

[dishcomm]

Problem I have with Ryan is he ended up being only a slightly over .500 pitcher.

I like him and all, the K's and the No No's are great, but a .526 winning percentage is probably not making it.

Ryan played on weak teams throughout his career. In his 27 years in MLB, teams he played for finished over .500 just 14 times. 9 of those over .500 won less than 90 games. Two seasons those teams went 82-80.
in 1987, Ryan posted a record of 8-16. That Houston Astros team, was 76-86. Far from an offensive juggernaut, the '87 Astros managed a paltry 4 runs per game.
Ryan led all starters with a 2.70 ERA and also led the NL in strikeouts with 270. Ryan finished 5th in Cy Young award voting.

 

[dishcomm]

I don't think he did. I remember one year he got robbed with the most wins. (At least I think I remember)

No..Closest was third place (twice) in the balloting in 1981 and 1983

 

[AntAltMike]

Ryan played on weak teams throughout his career. In his 27 years in MLB, teams he played for finished over .500 just 14 times. 9 of those over .500 won less than 90 games. Two seasons those teams went 82-80....

I don't think that the teams that Ferguson Jenkins played on were any better.

 

[raoul5788]

True, he played over half of his career with the Cubs.