Will a Dish Installer bury coax, splice into existing coax?

[davefr]

I just signed up for Dish network and have an install scheduled early next week and would like to know what to expect from the tech doing the install. (I'm converting from Directv). My current setup is 100' of buried coax from my home to a ground mast. At the time I buried the cable myself in PVC conduit to protect it from hungry gophers. I don't think Dish will be able to use my DirectTV mast because their azimuth is about 20 degrees further South. The current run will likely need to be extended another 60' to clear a row of fir trees for a total run of 160'.

1. Will a Dish Tech likely splice into my existing 100' Direct TV run and extend it 60' with new cable of will they want to a new continuous run of new 160' cable?

2. Does Dish bury/trench cable? I'd want the extra 60' run buried in PVC conduit. What will a tech do?

3. I've told Dish sales that I want a second Dish and a Wally receiver for my cabin at the coast for a self install. (replacing my second DTV install out there.) Will a tech follow that request and leave me the remote Wally receiver and dish hardware?

4. For my self install at the coast, I've aligned DTV via dithering without any issues. Is Dish any harder to align using the signal from the receiver than DTV?

TIA. I'd really like to know how a typical install Tech will deal with my unique situation to get a new customer.

P.S. Where the picture is taken is the most likely site for DISH given the azimuth differences.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

For your first questions the answer is no. Those are non standard installs and would be an extra
charge if they do them.

I am not sure you are going to get an extra dish as they don’t allow that anymore.

But installing the dish if you got one is not that hard.

 

[davefr]

So a Tech could simply refuse the install in spite of DISH begging for new customers? It sound like some potential internal conflict between sales and installers.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yup.

 

[tjboston5676]

There's a lot there lol.

Different techs will handle it differently. But this is how I would handle it.

1. The shorter the cable run the better. From dish all the way to receiver you want to be under 200' total. So just 160' from dish to house is already starting off with quite a bit if cable. The receiver has to power the dish so when it starts getting that far out it can no longer be properly powered. Myself would look for other options such as mounted to the house. I know a lot if ppl don't like it but it really is better than a pole for many reasons. First it's out of the way and won't get hit. Don't have to worry about buried cable. Will be more sturdy and if course less cable. A pole is dead last on our mounting hierarchy.

2. Most techs will trench cable but we don't carry pvc and is actually not recommended as pvc holds moisture no matter how good you think you have sealed it. We have cable made specifically for direct burial that can withstand the conditions. For your specific run, i would personally tell you I'll run the cable on the ground and leave a bit of slack and can bury it yourself. I don't mind a 10'-20' trench but 100+ no way unless you're paying $150 for it.

3. As far as getting a whole dish, again depends on the tech. My company has to pay for the equipment and dish only allows one dish on the work order so we wouldn't get paid for it, therefore I'd charge $150 for the dish. Then the wally you could purchase from dish outdoors and they'll send it in the mail.

4. Pointing using the signal from receiver shouldn't be much harder if at all compared to dtv.

Also dish doesn't like us doing things like this, where we charge for parts or labor not in our store but at same time they aren't going to reimburse us. So it's one of those things, where's it's do what you gotta do. And if done right dish would never know about it, except Josh on here when he reads this lmbo. But that's why I say it really depends on the tech. Newbie techs might say they'll do it but then they're going to be there all day and screw up the rest of their appointments for the day, and will learn a lesson that day, or you'll get a tech that will just tell you they can't do it, or get someone like me that will do it if you're willing to pay for my time and parts.

 

[charlesrshell]

There's a lot there lol.

Different techs will handle it differently. But this is how I would handle it.

1. The shorter the cable run the better. From dish all the way to receiver you want to be under 200' total. So just 160' from dish to house is already starting off with quite a bit if cable. The receiver has to power the dish so when it starts getting that far out it can no longer be properly powered. Myself would look for other options such as mounted to the house. I know a lot if ppl don't like it but it really is better than a pole for many reasons. First it's out of the way and won't get hit. Don't have to worry about buried cable. Will be more sturdy and if course less cable. A pole is dead last on our mounting hierarchy.

2. Most techs will trench cable but we don't carry pvc and is actually not recommended as pvc holds moisture no matter how good you think you have sealed it. We have cable made specifically for direct burial that can withstand the conditions. For your specific run, i would personally tell you I'll run the cable on the ground and leave a bit of slack and can bury it yourself. I don't mind a 10'-20' trench but 100+ no way unless you're paying $150 for it.

3. As far as getting a whole dish, again depends on the tech. My company has to pay for the equipment and dish only allows one dish on the work order so we wouldn't get paid for it, therefore I'd charge $150 for the dish. Then the wally you could purchase from dish outdoors and they'll send it in the mail.

4. Pointing using the signal from receiver shouldn't be much harder if at all compared to dtv.

Also dish doesn't like us doing things like this, where we charge for parts or labor not in our store but at same time they aren't going to reimburse us. So it's one of those things, where's it's do what you gotta do. And if done right dish would never know about it, except Josh on here when he reads this lmbo. But that's why I say it really depends on the tech. Newbie techs might say they'll do it but then they're going to be there all day and screw up the rest of their appointments for the day, and will learn a lesson that day, or you'll get a tech that will just tell you they can't do it, or get someone like me that will do it if you're willing to pay for my time and parts.

How deep does the cable have to be?

 

[tjboston5676]

How deep does the cable have to be?

A few inches at least to avoid it being exposed from rain. I usually just take a shovel and stomp it in the ground then angle the ground up without actually removing it then slide the cable under and stomp the ground back down. Can barely tell it got dug up if you do it right.

 

[charlesrshell]

A few inches at least to avoid it being exposed from rain. I usually just take a shovel and stomp it in the ground then angle the ground up without actually removing it then slide the cable under and stomp the ground back down. Can barely tell it got dug up if you do it right.

The way I have buried cable is to use a spade (I think it's called) type shovel. Dampen the ground, go straight down with the spade, rock the spade back & fourth to open a gap in the ground
about a half inch, and then lay the cable in the gap. Then use your feet to close the gap. If the ground is fairly soft, the cable can be 4 to 6 inches deep. Depends on how deep the spade gets.

 

[tjboston5676]

The way I have buried cable is to use a spade (I think it's called) type shovel. Dampen the ground, go straight down with the spade, rock the spade back & fourth to open a gap in the ground
about a half inch, and then lay the cable in the gap. Then use your feet to close the gap. If the ground is fairly soft, the cable can be 4 to 6 inches deep. Depends on how deep the spade gets.

So that's basically the same as what I described but you described it a bit better, except I don't wet the ground

 

[charlesrshell]

The way I have buried cable is to use a spade (I think it's called) type shovel. Dampen the ground, go straight down with the spade, rock the spade back & fourth to open a gap in the ground
about a half inch, and then lay the cable in the gap. Then use your feet to close the gap. If the ground is fairly soft, the cable can be 4 to 6 inches deep. Depends on how deep the spade gets.

Here is the type of spade shovel I would use.

 

[charlesrshell]

So that's basically the same as what I described but you described it a bit better, except I don't wet the ground

Depends on how hard the ground is.

 

[davefr]

There's a lot there lol.

Different techs will handle it differently. But this is how I would handle it.

1. The shorter the cable run the better. From dish all the way to receiver you want to be under 200' total. So just 160' from dish to house is already starting off with quite a bit if cable. The receiver has to power the dish so when it starts getting that far out it can no longer be properly powered. Myself would look for other options such as mounted to the house. I know a lot if ppl don't like it but it really is better than a pole for many reasons. First it's out of the way and won't get hit. Don't have to worry about buried cable. Will be more sturdy and if course less cable. A pole is dead last on our mounting hierarchy.

2. Most techs will trench cable but we don't carry pvc and is actually not recommended as pvc holds moisture no matter how good you think you have sealed it. We have cable made specifically for direct burial that can withstand the conditions. For your specific run, i would personally tell you I'll run the cable on the ground and leave a bit of slack and can bury it yourself. I don't mind a 10'-20' trench but 100+ no way unless you're paying $150 for it.

3. As far as getting a whole dish, again depends on the tech. My company has to pay for the equipment and dish only allows one dish on the work order so we wouldn't get paid for it, therefore I'd charge $150 for the dish. Then the wally you could purchase from dish outdoors and they'll send it in the mail.

4. Pointing using the signal from receiver shouldn't be much harder if at all compared to dtv.

Also dish doesn't like us doing things like this, where we charge for parts or labor not in our store but at same time they aren't going to reimburse us. So it's one of those things, where's it's do what you gotta do. And if done right dish would never know about it, except Josh on here when he reads this lmbo. But that's why I say it really depends on the tech. Newbie techs might say they'll do it but then they're going to be there all day and screw up the rest of their appointments for the day, and will learn a lesson that day, or you'll get a tech that will just tell you they can't do it, or get someone like me that will do it if you're willing to pay for my time and parts.

Thank you. This is extremely helpful.

I have no problem doing cable burial myself. The ground is like concrete now but Fall rains should soften it up. Can a Tech tie into/splice onto an existing run? I already have a 100' run so only a 50-60' extension would be needed. There is no house mount option with a clear view.

Sales told me they'd add an installer note to provide the second dish + wally for my 2nd self install. I'll press the issue but understand if the tech refuses.

I have one of those cheap satellite finder meters from the round dish era. Will those work to get my self install alignment approximated and then fine tune/dither it with the receiver?

Thanks again

 

[cpdretired]

Home Depot may have a power trenching tool for rental.

 

[HipKat]

Looking a the picture, since we point more to the west where threes seem lower, the Dish could possibly moved back closer than the DTV Dish.
Troy is correct about the cost. The 1st 50' is free. After that it's a dollar a foot in $50 increments so the extra 110' would be $150.00

 

[HipKat]

So a Tech could simply refuse the install in spite of DISH begging for new customers? It sound like some potential internal conflict between sales and installers.

NO, a tech can-NOT arbitrarily refuse an install

 

[HipKat]

A few inches at least to avoid it being exposed from rain. I usually just take a shovel and stomp it in the ground then angle the ground up without actually removing it then slide the cable under and stomp the ground back down. Can barely tell it got dug up if you do it right.

 

[Josh.M]

There's a lot there lol.

Different techs will handle it differently. But this is how I would handle it.

1. The shorter the cable run the better. From dish all the way to receiver you want to be under 200' total. So just 160' from dish to house is already starting off with quite a bit if cable. The receiver has to power the dish so when it starts getting that far out it can no longer be properly powered. Myself would look for other options such as mounted to the house. I know a lot if ppl don't like it but it really is better than a pole for many reasons. First it's out of the way and won't get hit. Don't have to worry about buried cable. Will be more sturdy and if course less cable. A pole is dead last on our mounting hierarchy.

2. Most techs will trench cable but we don't carry pvc and is actually not recommended as pvc holds moisture no matter how good you think you have sealed it. We have cable made specifically for direct burial that can withstand the conditions. For your specific run, i would personally tell you I'll run the cable on the ground and leave a bit of slack and can bury it yourself. I don't mind a 10'-20' trench but 100+ no way unless you're paying $150 for it.

3. As far as getting a whole dish, again depends on the tech. My company has to pay for the equipment and dish only allows one dish on the work order so we wouldn't get paid for it, therefore I'd charge $150 for the dish. Then the wally you could purchase from dish outdoors and they'll send it in the mail.

4. Pointing using the signal from receiver shouldn't be much harder if at all compared to dtv.

Also dish doesn't like us doing things like this, where we charge for parts or labor not in our store but at same time they aren't going to reimburse us. So it's one of those things, where's it's do what you gotta do. And if done right dish would never know about it, except Josh on here when he reads this lmbo. But that's why I say it really depends on the tech. Newbie techs might say they'll do it but then they're going to be there all day and screw up the rest of their appointments for the day, and will learn a lesson that day, or you'll get a tech that will just tell you they can't do it, or get someone like me that will do it if you're willing to pay for my time and parts.

Not even going to pretend to have the same knowledge as you guys do when it comes to installing our equipment. You're the expert there

 

[Nebugeater]

Not even going to pretend to have the same knowledge as you guys do when it comes to installing our equipment. You're the expert there

But did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express?

 

[telstar_1]

Cabling has been designed for direct burial since the c-band days in the 80s. Agree that conduiting is a big risk for water getting in it- what happens is that the cable remaining immersed in water for an extended period rather than it draining through the ground lets in the moisture and fails. Never saw where anything had chewed the cable underground.

Buried splicing can be done, it's just that I've never seen it done right by someone else. Dug up a lot of failed splices. Moisture getting in. I would just splice with usual fittings and then wrap with coax-seal or other waterproofing mat'l, then a few wraps of e-tape over that. Never had any issue with my buried splices. One I saw that another dealer did, he put a caulking tube over the splice and pumped it full of RTV- the RTV itself drew in water and it just sat there and corroded everything.

For burial I cut a round flat disk (plow rolling coulter) in half and welded a handle to it. I'd jam that into the ground and work it side-to-side to open a slot about 5" deep.

 

[HipKat]

Cabling has been designed for direct burial since the c-band days in the 80s. Agree that conduiting is a big risk for water getting in it- what happens is that the cable remaining immersed in water for an extended period rather than it draining through the ground lets in the moisture and fails. Never saw where anything had chewed the cable underground.

Buried splicing can be done, it's just that I've never seen it done right by someone else. Dug up a lot of failed splices. Moisture getting in. I would just splice with usual fittings and then wrap with coax-seal or other waterproofing mat'l, then a few wraps of e-tape over that. Never had any issue with my buried splices. One I saw that another dealer did, he put a caulking tube over the splice and pumped it full of RTV- the RTV itself drew in water and it just sat there and corroded everything.

For burial I cut a round flat disk (plow rolling coulter) in half and welded a handle to it. I'd jam that into the ground and work it side-to-side to open a slot about 5" deep.

In the very rare instances where I had to splice buried cable, I'd use Dielectric Grease in the fitting before wrapping with electrical tape then lightly running a lighter under it to seal the tape