Wireless Joey?

[Scott Greczkowski]

What are the ethernet ports on the HR34 and H24 used for?

Dont know don't have one.

The Hopper and Joey are made for an easy install for someone who has cable tv already wired.

If your are going to run Ethernet everywhere then why bother. Besides you should be able to extend the Ethernet over the coax system to the Joeys anyways, which might make it to have broadband in all your rooms without running new Ethernet to each room.

 

[John Kotches]

Is it the best way? No. Is it good enough in many, if not most, home environments? Yes.

Why would dish want to open themselves for diagnosing a customer premises RF issue in a way too crowded rf band?

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[GaryPen]

I think the point that those who are complaining about the H/J's lack of ethernet support for its distribution is not Dish's choice to use Moca. It's Dish's choice to use Moca exclusively, and not offer Ethernet in addition to Moca.

It has been mentioned here that Uverse wi-fi has problems. (Although, I have not heard much rumbling.) But, Uverse also uses ethernet quite successfully, in addition to Moca if that turns out to be easier.

I can understand wanting to use Moca, as to take advantage of existing coax in upgrade situations, as well as current wiring stock and installation techniques for the installers. But, to not include Ethernet capability is to actually limit the system.

I'll bet a dollar that ethernet connectivity is actually possible with the H/J HW. But, Dish has decided not to utilize that possibility.

 

[John Kotches]

Gary:

Sorry, we're going to disagree. By going exclusively MoCA they remove any considerations for the customer's premise equipment. That means no worrying about the crappy 100Mbit ethernet on poorly terminated Cat5 cabling, and any other attendant issues when something goes awry on the network as can happen.

By using a controlled, essentially dedicated network they can do a much better job of controlling QoS (Quality of Service) and insuring the packets get delivered where and when they are supposed to. That is much more difficult to do on a non-dedicated network.

Being able to effectively support millions of in-field installations (which is where they will end up) is an important part of the equation here.

 

[elmafu69]

Not that hard to replace old cat5 with new cat6 or cat6a cabling. Just rewired my house with cat6 cabling and only took a few hours. I could install a H/J combo in minutes over ethernet if it were supported.

I know that installers would probably hate it though. Much easier to work with coax.

 

[harshness]

More crap being spewed I see.

Have you heard credible information to the contrary (transmission by other than MoCA)?

MoCA is also what DIRECTV uses for its HR34.

Which:

1. Doesn't make it the best suited technology; only the one that DIRECTV installers can install without a networking license.
2. DIRECTV doesn't limit you to DECA

 

[harshness]

Much easier to work with coax.

CAT5 doesn't suffer from wide bend radii and is much easier to diagnose with cheap tools.

If you're using existing cable, low-band MoCA conflicts with OTA diplexing.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

By using a controlled, essentially dedicated network they can do a much better job of controlling QoS (Quality of Service) and insuring the packets get delivered where and when they are supposed to. That is much more difficult to do on a non-dedicated network.

BINGO and this is why the Sling Extender was not released as they could not give the customer the same viewing experience twice.

 

[harshness]

That means no worrying about the crappy 100Mbit ethernet on poorly terminated Cat5 cabling, and any other attendant issues when something goes awry on the network as can happen.

The chances of running into existing coax that is poorly terminated (or heaven forbid, poorly split) is significantly higher.

The motivation for the installers is that they need a fancy license to do CAT5 and the qualifications for installing coax are not nearly as rigorous (some jurisdictions don't have a formal technical qualification process for TV coax installers).

 

[harshness]

BINGO and this is why the Sling Extender was not released as they could not give the customer the same viewing experience twice.

Sez who? I would think that the programming providers wouldn't care about any system that relays content exclusively within the home.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The chances of running into existing coax that is poorly terminated (or heaven forbid, poorly split) is significantly higher.

That the nice part about MoCA, it seems to handle those issues nicely.

 

[JM42]

CAT5 doesn't suffer from wide bend radii and is much easier to diagnose with cheap tools.

But there are the licensing issues in some areas. Addiditonally keeping coax as the norm eliminates any of the client's crap equipment from being an issue.

Personally I wish Dish would enable ethernet option but I can see their side and don't really have a problem with it. I also wouldn't be surprised if we eventually do see it enabled.

If you're using existing cable, low-band MoCA conflicts with OTA diplexing.

Not really an issue. You need two wires for OTA either way, and OTA is a small slice of the pie.

 

[John Kotches]

The chances of running into existing coax that is poorly terminated (or heaven forbid, poorly split) is significantly higher.

For customers already on Dish, much less of a problem as it's already working.

Poorly terminated is fixed in 60 seconds or less by a Tech that has the tools.

Poorly split? Of course it'll happen, but this is an install issue, addressed once. Issues maintaining QoS over a non-dedicated network, especially with wildly varying wireless throughput (which is the original topic) would be ongoing.

In a couple of years when 802.11ac might be vetted on a larger scale it would be worth considering.

The motivation for the installers is that they need a fancy license to do CAT5 and the qualifications for installing coax are not nearly as rigorous (some jurisdictions don't have a formal technical qualification process for TV coax installers).

I like category cabling too. Im not at all against it in this context, but it would have to still be on a dedicated Gigabit network rather than shared for QoS. But, as before this was about wireless not wired.


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[Scott Greczkowski]

BTW there is no saying that Ethernet wiring support wont be added in the future.

They are just trying to get the initial Hopper out the door in a configuration that the majority of customers will use.

 

[harshness]

That the nice part about MoCA, it seems to handle those issues nicely.

There are some DIRECTV subscribers that would beg to differ.

 

[harshness]

Poorly terminated is fixed in 60 seconds or less by a Tech that has the tools.

Repair is easy. Diagnosis is an entirely different issue and if all they give you to work with is a couple of LEDs, that's not much help.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

There are some DIRECTV subscribers that would beg to differ.

I agree, and thats a great thing that DISH did. They took a look at what DIRECTV did and all the mistakes they made and worked to illiminate those issues on the DISH version.

I don't expect it to be perfect (as nothing is) but it will work well im almost all situations.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Repair is easy. Diagnosis is an entirely different issue and if all they give you to work with is a couple of LEDs, that's not much help.

a $18 coax tester is your friend.

 

[lparsons21]

There are some DIRECTV subscribers that would beg to differ.

Yeah, there are some DirecTV subscribers that would beg do differ on just about any subject, what's new about that?

And what is this licensing for CAT5/6 installs you keep referring to? Up until about 6 years ago when I retired, I pulled and installed a hell of a lot of pretty big networks and no licensing required to do it. Have things changed that much in 6 years? Pulling and terminating CAT5/6 isn't brain surgery you know!

 

[navychop]

I've never heard of licensing requirements for low voltage data. Maybe in New York City?