Yankee's Crying Poor?

[ScoBuck]

So let me get this straight....just so I get where you are coming from....Becuase they have averaged almost or around 4 million, that makes them a success. Financially, yeah. I mean then the same can be said about the Cubs, Red Sox, Dodgers, Braves, Phillies...ALL the BIG MARKET team. Just because you have success in the pocket, does not mean AUTOMATIC success on the field. To me, the Yankees are like Notre Dame football....just about every year, they get the best of the best....and yet wen was the last time they won a World Series? The Yankee organization and their fans do not measure success by having the most fans or making the playoffs every year, they measure by World Championships....and if I remember correct....we live in the world of "what have you don lately"....

As far as Sabathia, don't get me wrong, he is without a shadow of a doubt, one of the best pitchers in the game. But NO STARING pitcher, in my opinion...is worth that much....much less an every day player.

First off, you paint 'Yankee fans' in much too broad a stroke by putting them all into the same basket. There are some that view success as ONLY winning the World Series - but that would be a big minority of fans. As I have already stated (this being my opinion as a die-hard yankee fan) I say they have had success ON THE FIELD proven by the fact that they had a run of 13 STRAIGHT YEARS making post-season. Something that only the BRAVES in your list above also did (they did it 14 straight I believe) - even with huge payrolls (Mets, RedSox, Dodgers). Not to say that every year the GOAL is to win the World Series (but I think that is also true of EVERY team).

Only a FOOLISH fan would expect a team to be able to win the World Series every year. It is an unrealistic expectation. But in my lifetime (57 years old) my team has been in the Fall CLassic 20 times, winning 12 of them. Pretty good huh? That's how THIS Yankee fan views the team's success.

As far as how much money is too much - yep, atheletes make more than they are worth. But it is a business, and as such it is what it is. Let me ask you this one though - if it was YOU that was this gifted athelete - would you take less than you could get? I don't think so.

 

[salsadancer7]

First off, you paint 'Yankee fans' in much too broad a stroke by putting them all into the same basket. There are some that view success as ONLY winning the World Series - but that would be a big minority of fans. As I have already stated (this being my opinion as a die-hard yankee fan) I say they have had success ON THE FIELD proven by the fact that they had a run of 13 STRAIGHT YEARS making post-season. Something that only the BRAVES in your list above also did (they did it 14 straight I believe) - even with huge payrolls (Mets, RedSox, Dodgers). Not to say that every year the GOAL is to win the World Series (but I think that is also true of EVERY team).

Only a FOOLISH fan would expect a team to be able to win the World Series every year. It is an unrealistic expectation. But in my lifetime (57 years old) my team has been in the Fall CLassic 20 times, winning 12 of them. Pretty good huh? That's how THIS Yankee fan views the team's success.

As far as how much money is too much - yep, atheletes make more than they are worth. But it is a business, and as such it is what it is. Let me ask you this one though - if it was YOU that was this gifted athelete - would you take less than you could get? I don't think so.

Oh ScoBuck....your not gonna sit there and make the claim that Yankee fans, with ALL the spending the Yankees do YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT, do EXPECT to win it every year do you? You are telling me Yankee fans are happy with JUST making the playoffs?? Really??

Right.......and I assume you ALSO have a bridge you wanna sell me too?

Like the Red Sox, Mets, Phillies, Angels and ALL the spending they do....their fans, LIKE Yankees fans, EXPECT to win it every year.

As far as success....this is how YOU pictured it not too long ago:

Obviously you haven't checked the value of the Yankees franchise recently.

Or the OVER 4 million in attendance they get EVERY YEAR now.

Or the attendance they draw to ballparks when they are on the road.

Or the revenues from branded merchandise.

I guess it depends on what your measurement of success is. 4 million plus in attendance every year, huge crowds to see them on the road, sounds pretty successful to me.

 

[ScoBuck]

Oh ScoBuck....your not gonna sit there and make the claim that Yankee fans, with ALL the spending the Yankees do YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT, do EXPECT to win it every year do you? You are telling me Yankee fans are happy with JUST making the playoffs?? Really??

Right.......and I assume you ALSO have a bridge you wanna sell me too?

Like the Red Sox, Mets, Phillies, Angels and ALL the spending they do....their fans, LIKE Yankees fans, EXPECT to win it every year.

As far as success....this is how YOU pictured it not too long ago:

No fan is happy on a year by year basis of their team (whatever team you root for) not winning. But to say that ALL Yankee fans expect to WIN THE WORLD SERIES EVERY YEAR is absurd, plain and simple. Roll your eyes all you want.

The Yankees are the most successful professional sports franchise PERIOD. Both on the field and off.

Have a nice day.

Live with it.

 

[salsadancer7]

No fan is happy on a year by year basis of their team (whatever team you root for) not winning. But to say that ALL Yankee fans expect to WIN THE WORLD SERIES EVERY YEAR is absurd, plain and simple. Roll your eyes all you want.

The Yankees are the most successful professional sports franchise PERIOD. Both on the field and off.

Have a nice day.

Live with it.

I guess that is your story and sticking to it. You are THE 1st Yankee fan that has said that they don't expect to win it every year. I don't know if you're in denial or an actual sensitive Yankee fan.

Oh geez, he pulled the ole 'I am going home and taking my toys home' bit.....

 

[ScoBuck]

I guess that is your story and sticking to it. You are THE 1st Yankee fan that has said that they don't expect to win it every year. I don't know if you're in denial or an actual sensitive Yankee fan.

Oh geez, he pulled the ole 'I am going home and taking my toys home' bit.....

How dramatic you are. I am one of most Yankee fans that are excited that my owner does what he believes he should to GIVE US A CHANCE to make it to the World Series EVERY YEAR. That is different than EXPECTING TO WIN IT EVERY YEAR.

You don't differentiate between the two - so I don't really care to argue with you about it. To think that millions of fans ALL think the same is ABSURD.

 

[salsadancer7]

How dramatic you are. I am one of most Yankee fans that are excited that my owner does what he believes he should to GIVE US A CHANCE to make it to the World Series EVERY YEAR. That is different than EXPECTING TO WIN IT EVERY YEAR.

You don't differentiate between the two - so I don't really care to argue with you about it. To think that millions of fans ALL think the same is ABSURD.

Ok....again, that is YOUR story and sticking to it. That is YOUR team and you are entitled to it.

 

[SandraC]

NOW I can start answering some of this wonderful junk mail. I have been in baseball almost as long as you been alive, from little leagues, to college to single A ball to now being assistant head baseball coach at one of the best baseball programs in all of Florida and the United States. So to question my love for baseball is pretty funny.

Oh, OK. My mistake.

It's just when you make a silly comment that no pitcher should be paid more than any position player because he doesn't play as often, it makes you sound like you're not a baseball person. Being old doesn't make you an expert.

Most baseball don't think Luis Castillo should be paid more than Johan Santana. You're the exception.

Did you tell the pitchers on your esteemed baseball team how you feel about their value to the team?


Sandra

 

[SabresRule]

Most baseball don't think Luis Castillo should be paid more than Johan Santana.

Honestly, I should make more money than Luis Castillo.

Other than a 30+ game hitting streak, has he done ANYTHING significant in baseball?

 

[SandraC]

Honestly, I should make more money than Luis Castillo.

Other than a 30+ game hitting streak, has he done ANYTHING significant in baseball?

Yes, he's a regular field player when he's healthy. So according to salsa, he's more important to the Mets than Johan Santana, the best pitcher in the game. He knows, he coaches a team in Florida...


Sandra

 

[salsadancer7]

Oh, OK. My mistake.

It's just when you make a silly comment that no pitcher should be paid more than any position player because he doesn't play as often, it makes you sound like you're not a baseball person. Being old doesn't make you an expert.

Most baseball don't think Luis Castillo should be paid more than Johan Santana. You're the exception.

Did you tell the pitchers on your esteemed baseball team how you feel about their value to the team?


Sandra

Why is it silly? There is a HUGE difference in baseball between A ball and Major Leagues....and the difference between high school and A ball is 10 times more.
My pitchers ALSO play the field...they also hit. Major League pitchers don't. I Major League pitcher screws up and gives up a home run, seldom does he have a chance to make up for it. A Major League infielder screws up, he has a chance to redeem himself.

Oh yeah, being 'old' may not make me an expert....but having all brothers doesn't makes you much of a sports fan/expert either.....

Wow....don't hurt your knees TOO MUCH comparing Johan Santana and Luis Castillo. Comparing a journey man infielder and Johan Santana is now exaggeration just a bit.

 

[HD MM]

Oh, OK. My mistake.

It's just when you make a silly comment that no pitcher should be paid more than any position player because he doesn't play as often, it makes you sound like you're not a baseball person. Being old doesn't make you an expert.
Sandra

B-I-N-G-O and BINGO was his NAME-O!!!!!!!!!!!

And to correct Salsa on his Baseball credentials, I will have to venture to guess he has never been a pitcher. Otherwise he surely could understand the importance of the position. To say a pitcher doesn't deserve the same pay as an everyday player is shear madness!

Most baseball don't think Luis Castillo should be paid more than Johan Santana. You're the exception.
Sandra

Super LOL!

Did you tell the pitchers on your esteemed baseball team how you feel about their value to the team?
Sandra

Again, Super LOL!

 

[salsadancer7]

Honestly, I should make more money than Luis Castillo.

Other than a 30+ game hitting streak, has he done ANYTHING significant in baseball?

Oh please....so you might have played a little high school baseball....maybe even some college...and NOW you think you can outplay him? He hit .300 in 5 of his 12 complete seasons....I bet you could not hit one fiftieth of that. He has a career .292 batting average, he is NO WAY a HOFer, but I wouldn't be surprised that there are players in the HOF that do not have a career batting average of .292. AND 3 gold gloves to boot....

 

[salsadancer7]

B-I-N-G-O and BINGO was his NAME-O!!!!!!!!!!!

And to correct Salsa on his Baseball credentials, I will have to venture to guess he has never been a pitcher. Otherwise he surely could understand the importance of the position. To say a pitcher doesn't deserve the same pay as an everyday player is shear madness!

Super LOL!

Again, Super LOL!

No....But I came up the ranks as a catcher and a 2nd basemen. I have seen and caught plenty of pitchers and work with more pitchers than you have probably seen pitch. I KNOW how important pitchers are. But AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL, which is what we are talking about here, NOT HIGH SCHOOL, I don't think a player that plays partially on every 4th or 5th day, should get more.

Do you think Sabathia is worth MORE than say a Posada? Or an A.Rod or a Jeter?

 

[cybok0]

No....But I came up the ranks as a catcher and a 2nd basemen. I have seen and caught plenty of pitchers and work with more pitchers than you have probably seen pitch. I KNOW how important pitchers are. But AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL, which is what we are talking about here, NOT HIGH SCHOOL, I don't think a player that plays partially on every 4th or 5th day, should get more.

Do you think Sabathia is worth MORE than say a Posada? Or an A.Rod or a Jeter?

Well according to HD's and the other one's philosophy, Ian Snell should make more than A-Rod.

IMO they are comparing apples to oranges, yes C.C. should make more than someone like Jack Wilson, but not more than someone like A-Rod or Ortiz.

But lets face it, the Yankees will pay tons of money to great players, not just to get them on their team, but to keep them away from the other teams, so they have a harder time beating the Yankees IMO.

 

[cybok0]

Oh yeah, being 'old' may not make me an expert....but having all brothers doesn't makes you much of a sports fan/expert either.....

ROTFLMAO.

 

[HD MM]

No....But I came up the ranks as a catcher and a 2nd basemen. I have seen and caught plenty of pitchers and work with more pitchers than you have probably seen pitch. I KNOW how important pitchers are. But AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE LEVEL, which is what we are talking about here, NOT HIGH SCHOOL, I don't think a player that plays partially on every 4th or 5th day, should get more.

Do you think Sabathia is worth MORE than say a Posada? Or an A.Rod or a Jeter?

First off, the Yankees overspend on every player. How the Steinbrenners spend their money is not for you and I to debate.

What can be debated though is the worthiness of pitchers to a major league ball club. My argument is that great pitchers are worth just as much, if not more than every day players.

The reason? A pitcher can have a direct impact on the outcome of each game they pitch.

Take for instance Cliff Lee. Last year, Lee won 22 games. The team he pitched for (Indians) won a total of 81 games. That meant Cliff accounted for over 27% of the Indians overall wins!

Show me a position player that had 22 walk off homers or game deciding field play that directly accounted for 27% of their teams wins in a single season.......

 

[salsadancer7]

First off, the Yankees overspend on every player. How the Steinbrenners spend their money is not for you and I to debate.

What can be debated though is the worthiness of pitchers to a major league ball club. My argument is that great pitchers are worth just as much, if not more than every day players.

The reason? A pitcher can have a direct impact on the outcome of each game they pitch.

Take for instance Cliff Lee. Last year, Lee won 22 games. The team he pitched for (Indians) won a total of 81 games. That meant Cliff accounted for over 27% of the Indians overall wins!

Show me a position player that had 22 walk off homers or game deciding field play that directly accounted for 27% of their teams wins in a single season.......

Well...if you looked at my comments, the fact that they DO overspend makes their spending irrational....that MORE than enough reason to debate. Yankee fans ain't stupid....even THEY know that the ownership over spends.

As far as worthiness of pitchers....your Cliff Lee is a perfect example. He won 27% of your teams games....YES is very valuble to the team, but if it weren't Sizemore, Peralta, Shoppach and Choo...he WOULDN'T have won those 22 games.

IF you take away Sizemore, I assure you you will win MORE GAME than if you would take away Lee.

In the playoffs, good pitching ALWAYS beats good hitting. But good hitting AND defense is what GETS YOU TO THE PLAYOFFS!

 

[HD MM]

Well...if you looked at my comments, the fact that they DO overspend makes their spending irrational....that MORE than enough reason to debate. Yankee fans ain't stupid....even THEY know that the ownership over spends.

As far as worthiness of pitchers....your Cliff Lee is a perfect example. He won 27% of your teams games....YES is very valuble to the team, but if it weren't Sizemore, Peralta, Shoppach and Choo...he WOULDN'T have won those 22 games.

IF you take away Sizemore, I assure you you will win MORE GAME than if you would take away Lee.

In the playoffs, good pitching ALWAYS beats good hitting. But good hitting AND defense is what GETS YOU TO THE PLAYOFFS!

Errrrrrrrr. Wrong again Mr. Baseball.

Pitching is the most important facet of the game. Pitching, more so than hitting and defense gets you to the playoffs. Believe it or not, but it matters in the regular season too!

Let's review the '08 MLB season and take the top 10 teams in each statistical category from the 2008 regular season. In red I showed the teams who ended up advancing to the playoffs....

Pitching (Sorted by best ERA)
1. Toronto
2. LA Dodgers
3. Tampa Bay
4. Milwaukee
5. Chicago Cubs
6. Philadelphia
7. Arizona
8. LA Angels
9. Boston
10. Oakland

Hitting (Sorted by most runs)
1. Texas
2. Ch. Cubs
3. Boston
4. Minnesota
5. Detroit
6. Ch. Sox
7. Cleveland
8. NY Mets
9. Philadelphia
10. NY Yankees

Fielding (Sorted by least amount of errors)
1. Houston
2. NY Mets
3. NY Yankees
4. Toronto
5. San Diego
6. St. Louis
7. Boston
8. Tampa Bay
9. Philadelphia
10. LA Angels

 

[roachxp]

MLB should charge a 2nd luxary tax if teams go over 200million in payroll like when they go over 100million per season. Right now the Yankees are way over the 200million mark, 100million more then the Sox too. The Mets will be in trouble too is they don't make money since the owner lost 95% of his money in that Wall St scam.

 

[Skyhi]

Pitching (Sorted by best ERA)
1. Toronto
2. LA Dodgers
3. Tampa Bay
4. Milwaukee
5. Chicago Cubs
6. Philadelphia
7. Arizona
8. LA Angels
9. Boston
10. Oakland

Hitting (Sorted by most runs)
1. Texas
2. Ch. Cubs
3. Boston
4. Minnesota
5. Detroit
6. Ch. Sox
7. Cleveland
8. NY Mets
9. Philadelphia
10. NY Yankees

Fielding (Sorted by least amount of errors)
1. Houston
2. NY Mets
3. NY Yankees
4. Toronto
5. San Diego
6. St. Louis
7. Boston
8. Tampa Bay
9. Philadelphia
10. LA Angels

Game. Set. Match.