BluRay: Early adopters should've expected to get screwed...

[mike123abc]

So, from a spectator point of view, Sony went on its own, created a new format Blu-ray, "bought" the loyalty of many CE/studios, didn't offer it for DVD Forum approval, and used their voting power to delay the establishment of a competing format.
Diogen.

One could also view it as a bunch of Japanese companies wanting to make a new standard up without the endless comittees of the HD-DVD forum. Who said that the DVD forum needed to control the HD optical specifications? Maybe they did not want Microsoft in sabotaging efforts.

 

[diogen]

Who said that the DVD forum needed to control the HD optical specifications?

True. No org has to be involved...
But when you use your legal position to do onto your competition what they can't do onto you - something is wrong.
And this is exactly what Sony & Co. did in DVD Forum. And this is the reason the DOJ got involved and why they finally backed out...

Maybe they did not want Microsoft in sabotaging efforts.

Timing, timing...
Microsoft (and Disney, btw) was not a DVD Forum member until the beginning of 2004.
Disney and Microsoft join DVD Forum
All those Sony shenanigans were happening before that...

Diogen.

 

[shanewalker]

So, from a spectator point of view, Sony went on its own, created a new format Blu-ray, "bought" the loyalty of many CE/studios, didn't offer it for DVD Forum approval, and used their voting power to delay the establishment of a competing format.

And heaven forbid anyone operate as an independent company developing its own IP and INVENT something? Trapping progress within the safe stifling confines of baby-steps is what's strangling other industries right now--i.e. if only the auto industry had the cojones to break away from the petroleum/internal combustion engine in the 70s, we wouldn't be in half the fixes we are now. Forums/established infrastructures/et al are just the status quo--we don't NEED to confine ourselves to such. Think what benefits we've had from computer system manufacturers having to compete under Moore's Law...why accept anything less in any other technology?!

Many people on the consumer side were pro-Bluray because it WAS new. Backwards compatible players but a more significant jump in optical technology that wasn't hell-bent on being an incremental/evolutionary tweak on 30-yr-old CD/DVD technology. Hell, many of us were disappointed that Blu-ray was the strongest mainstream option being offered consumers--we should be enjoying 100GB FMD discs right now! To the people who suggest that we should be happy with advanced codecs...o.k., go back to dial-up and tell me capacity/bandwidth doesn't matter. Or use an old MP3 player that was glacier slow using old serial versus firewire/USB 2.0 for file transfers. Such things transform the experience--the people who claim that the specs matter only 'on paper' / 'academic' are almost always protecting/projecting their other biases, agendas and/or business affiliations.

Politics aside, I support innovation that is as bold as can be and offers me a real leap in capacity/performance. I don't really care what logo you slap on it or what deals they make behind the scenes as long as it delivers the experience I'm putting my money down for. For those who wanted 'cheap as possible' you had a camp to pitch into...and look at where we are.

Some were smart enough to hedge their bets and proceed w/ caution, only buying titles that were exclusive and weeding through the hype...oh well.

 

[JoeSp]

.....Edited...

The Blu-ray Disc format (as areplacement to DVD) was established in February 2002.
InfoSatellite.com - Blu-ray Disc: new DVD format established

One month later DVD Forum was still toying with WMVHD-like format on DVD-9.
Blu-ray Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Half a year later they introduced a blue laser format (later renamed HD DVD) that was standardized the next year.


So, from a spectator point of view, Sony went on its own, created a new format Blu-ray, "bought" the loyalty of many CE/studios, didn't offer it for DVD Forum approval, and used their voting power to delay the establishment of a competing format.

....Edited...
Diogen.

...Edited... BluRay was started by Sony and Pioneer in the 1990's! The first prototype was built and shown in 2000. The first consumer BD-RE recorder went on sale in Japan on April 1,2001. Amazing that you left that out huh? But then you are always right are you not Diogen?

Second, after the DVD Forum (chaired by Toshiba) voted to approve putting HD content on a dual layer DVD9 disc in March 2002 the DVD's own Steering Committee announced that it was pursuing its own blue laser technology. It was not until August of 2002 that Toshiba and NEC announced their own Advanced Optical Disc that was not approved until 2003 after being voted down twice by the Blu Disc Association Members (noticed that is plural and not singular).

Notice Diogen, that there was a consumer BD product on the market TWO YEARS before Toshiba and NEC even came up with HD-DVD. I guess being historically precise is not your bag, huh Diogen.

The main thing that held up BluRay from the consumer was DRM and that was something the STUDIOS WANTED not neccesarilly just Sony. Guess you missed that too , huh Diogen.

...Edited....
Information take from the complete article at:

Blu-ray Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[diogen]

And heaven forbid anyone operate as an independent company developing its own IP and INVENT something?

Since when does the process of inventing something new also includes preventing others doing the same?
I must have missed that memo...

Diogen.

 

[diogen]

First of all, I like how you post but don't read your post.

I guess you meant to say "...but I don't read your post", right? I knew that.
How else would you able to change position 180 degrees and still pretend to have it right?
First you said establishing BDA was the answer to DVD Forum activity

Hence the main reason the BD group established their own forum.

And now you simply repeat everything I said using the same source and claim BD was years ahead.

BluRay was started by Sony and Pioneer in the 1990's!

Do you at least read your own posts? ...Edited...

Diogen.

 

[r.jones1116]

First of all, I like how you post but don't read your post. BluRay was started by Sony and Pioneer in the 1990's! The first prototype was built and shown in 2000.

So the BDA had seven years and still they don't have a profile 2.0 player.

 

[JoeSp]

So the BDA had seven years and still they don't have a profile 2.0 player.

Actually they do, the Panny BD 50 is 2.0 compliant and I am willing to bet that within 30 days of it hitting the market so will the PS3.

 

[BobMurdoch]

Once again, consumer utility got overlooked here. Combo discs, region coding, and interactivity that has worked since day one for all HD DVD players got nuked by the fact that the sledgehammer that is the content providers have killed it.

Yes, you have bigger discs. That ONLY play in the HD machines (not in portable players or the family minivan), that reduce consumer choice to that which is deemed suitable for the US/Canadian market ONLY (region coding), and which forces people to either give up buying all standalone players if they want any interactivity features from BD-J to work before Christmas 2008 since none of the standalone units can handle it until then (yes, I know the PS3 can be updated).

I concede defeat. The war is unwinnable now for HD DVD. I'm actively looking for a combo player that will last me for 5 years since the XBox 360 player will get retired whenever the nextgen game system is released (2 years?),and I'm not sure how much longer the combo players will be around. I won't get the interactivity features on BluRay going this route, but at least I'll be able to get the big releases in HD. I still won't buy Disney discs on anything but DVD though, since the kids will want to play them in the car or on the DVD/VHS players in their rooms.

Found a 10% off coupon to shave $80 off the combo player at Best Buy. Maybe I can get some more reward zone coupons to whittle it down even more.... Waiting to see if BluRay offers any olive branches to HD DVD users or if they will just stand pat now that victory is seemingly theirs.

 

[bsk116]

Once again, consumer utility got overlooked here. Combo discs, region coding, and interactivity that has worked since day one for all HD DVD players got nuked by the fact that the sledgehammer that is the content providers have killed it.

Yes, you have bigger discs. That ONLY play in the HD machines (not in portable players or the family minivan), that reduce consumer choice to that which is deemed suitable for the US/Canadian market ONLY (region coding), and which forces people to either give up buying all standalone players if they want any interactivity features from BD-J to work before Christmas 2008 since none of the standalone units can handle it until then (yes, I know the PS3 can be updated).

I concede defeat. The war is unwinnable now for HD DVD. I'm actively looking for a combo player that will last me for 5 years since the XBox 360 player will get retired whenever the nextgen game system is released (2 years?),and I'm not sure how much longer the combo players will be around. I won't get the interactivity features on BluRay going this route, but at least I'll be able to get the big releases in HD. I still won't buy Disney discs on anything but DVD though, since the kids will want to play them in the car or on the DVD/VHS players in their rooms.

Found a 10% off coupon to shave $80 off the combo player at Best Buy. Maybe I can get some more reward zone coupons to whittle it down even more.... Waiting to see if BluRay offers any olive branches to HD DVD users or if they will just stand pat now that victory is seemingly theirs.

Have you considered both a 40 gig PS3 for BLU and a Tosh player for DVD versus a combo?
I've never researched combo player's or pricing but Is It reasonable to assume that, provided that space for two box's Isn't an issue and price Is comparable, COULD this be option?
The other obvious benefit being you can buy the software to suit your current needs, and lastly (and hopefully not), should one of the players break, you have the other to fall back on.
Personally I would prefer two boxes to one, but to each his own

 

[BobMurdoch]

Have you considered both a 40 gig PS3 for BLU and a Tosh player for DVD versus a combo?
I've never researched combo player's or pricing but Is It reasonable to assume that, provided that space for two box's Isn't an issue and price Is comparable, COULD this be option?
The other obvious benefit being you can buy the software to suit your current needs, and lastly (and hopefully not), should one of the players break, you have the other to fall back on.
Personally I would prefer two boxes to one, but to each his own

My receiver is pretty robust in that it has 5 video inputs, but only three have component video (none have HDMI, it's a 5 year old Integra 9.1 receiver), so I have to stick with one machine if I don't want to put another switch in between.....

 

[JoeSp]

And now you simply repeat everything I said using the same source and claim BD was years ahead.


Do you at least read your own posts? I know that's asking a bit too much...

Diogen.

Actually it is you who is not reading, all I did was post the dates of events from that post as they happened. Blu laser developement started in the 1990's and their first product hit the market in 2001 -- two years ahead of Toshiba, NEC, M$ and HD-DVD even being proposed. It is no claim but fact. Something that you really don't have much of a grasp on here. Just because you dismiss it does not mean that it is not fact.

Just because you and ever other HD-DVD fanboy and/or Sony hater don't want to admit, it was Toshiba and M$ that started this mess and not Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic and the rest of the CE manufacturers.

Toshiba did not want to give up their cash cow and the future for M$ HDM downloading was not ready for primetime so they both decided to go with their own format -- alone rather then agree to what EVERYBODY ELSE WANTED. Facts are facts -- reread the post and if I misstated anything -- PROVE ME WRONG!

 

[diogen]

...Edited...
Read my post 46 above and show me how your last two quotes don't contradict each other.

...Edited...
Diogen.

 

[vurbano]

Actually they do, the Panny BD 50 is 2.0 compliant and I am willing to bet that within 30 days of it hitting the market so will the PS3.

And what is the price of the BD 50???

 

[bsk116]

My receiver is pretty robust in that it has 5 video inputs, but only three have component video (none have HDMI, it's a 5 year old Integra 9.1 receiver), so I have to stick with one machine if I don't want to put another switch in between.....

Well If your like some of us in these forums, I would bet you have considered upgrading the "OLD" AVR along with a new player/players right? Ca'mon, admit it!
It's one hell of a hobby but our quest never really ends, or for me It never seems to

 

[BobMurdoch]

Just to get TrueHD, HDMI outputs, and?....

True HD might be nice, but the HDMI is flaky as my 622 will attest, ....

Meanwhile my Integra 9.1 receiver still does 135 watts per channel in 7.1 and does everything else I need it too. Since it cost me $2600 in 2001, I'm reluctant to give up on it just yet.....

 

[Ronnie-]

True HD might be nice, but the HDMI is flaky as my 622 will attest, ..

Which is more of a specific problem with the 622 than anything else

 

[Grandpa J]

We all take our chances when buying new tech items particularly with computers and digital TVs, recorders, etc. Sometimes you get the bear and sometimes the bear gets you.

I have both HD and BD formats and being older than most VHS and Beta tape machines. As I look back I could have saved money by waiting for winners but I would have missed the enjoyment of using the "failed" formats for the time they hot.

Life is too short to dwell on the choices we made than did not pan out. The $$ pain of these choices are really short lived.

 

[nonrev]

No early adopter to any new technology gets screwed. It is the folks who blindly follow when there are signs that a change is coming( like buying a HD-DVD player for XMAS and then finding out that Warner switched later when there were signs everywhere). My wife keeps saying where there is smoke there is fire and she's right everytime!

Don't know your wife but this time she was dead wrong!!!!!! WB clearly picked HD DVD. Sometimes thought companies(HD DVD) get shot in the back of the head. How correct could your wife have been if the HD DVD group had scheduled a press conference with WB??????

 

[69Mustang]

Found a 10% off coupon to shave $80 off the combo player at Best Buy. Maybe I can get some more reward zone coupons to whittle it down even more.... Waiting to see if BluRay offers any olive branches to HD DVD users or if they will just stand pat now that victory is seemingly theirs.[/QUOTE]


Ouch, that's still a $700 machine?