Target will announce BR support tomorrow

[gadgtfreek]

Thats been stated seeveral times in the thread. People posting took it the wrong way.

Target will have BR SONY SPONSORED endcaps
Target will sell the Xbox addon, the PS3 and BR standalones ONLY in stores
HDDVD players are available online

BR fanboys have blown this out of proportion making it sound like HDDVD is completely out.

While not a fanboy, I do like the hits HDDVD is taking. As stated above, I want the superior format(not discussing movies) therefore I want BR.

Think where we'd be if fought for CD-R's against DVD-R's. I want Blu Ray rewritable discs to cheapen asap along with the BR 100gig discs that TDK is messing with.

Someone here stated that it did not matter because HDD's were becoming cheaper. Difference is, Id rather backup up everything on a 100gig disc than use a HDD because it can failt at any moment, You backup on the 100 gig disc and store it away till you need it.

People get so caught up in hating sony, and arguing about Movie specs they forget the technical side. Truth is, HDDVD pq side by side with BR on top of the line players is prob the same. I want a technically sound format to win.

If this goes on it will prop be like DVD-R and DVD+R which was supported by different companies. Now we have DVD- and +'s supported on the same media.

 

[db2]

Wow, lots of good points in there Elway. I agree that too many people are looking at this from an ''I hate Sony'' or movie based perspective. Personally. I own both formats and I think they both look and sound great. At this point I either see BD winning or both existing. I do not see a way that HD-DVD can win at this point.

 

[JoeSp]

You guys miss the value of endcaps in retail. Encaps while a small are are usually 15 to 20% of a stores retail during the holiday seasons. The main point here is the BD camp is willing to spend money to put their product in front of the customers eyes. If you don't think this is a powerful incentive then why does every major manufacturer fight over those endcaps?

While this does not end HD-DVD in Target it steps up the visiblity of BD over HD-DVD both in the news and in the stores. This perception of being the front runner is how most companies fight these type of battles. Can anyone name me a particular same item product line where the cheapest product is the best seller other then the Wii right now?

I agree with db2 -- no way HD-DVD can win but they can co-exist. The question is wheather the retailers are going to allow it with such a small % of sales going towards HD movie viewing right now?

 

[diogen]

Let's sit back and watch now as all of the HD-DVD fanboys celebrate this as a huge ''victory''...

Have you ever wondered why the HD DVD section on this very forum is 5 times as big as the Blu-ray one?

Diogen.

 

[diogen]

...If this goes on it will prop be like DVD-R and DVD+R....

Unlikely.
The physical structure is different between BD/HD, and therefore the OPU.
The logical structure (what Microsoft wanted to keep identical) as well: HDi/BD-J, BD+, ROM-Mark.

Both formats can stay alive only when they ocupy a small niche and forget about replacing DVD as the next optical video format, IMHO.

Diogen.

 

[db2]

The HD-DVD forum is larger than the BD forum because HD-DVD seems to be the format of choice for the tech crowd. The problem is that technical forums like this one, AVS and many others are not necessarily representative of the general population. And the BD vs. HD-DVD disc sales numbers confirm that.

 

[diogen]

The HD-DVD forum is larger than the BD forum because HD-DVD seems to be the format of choice for the tech crowd.

Hmmm... Not sure about that.
But whatever the reason, they seem to prefer enjoying (and sharing) their experience
watching movies as oppose to show up in the WAR ZONE and "celebrate this as a huge ''victory''..."

Diogen.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Unlikely.
The physical structure is different between BD/HD, and therefore the OPU.
The logical structure (what Microsoft wanted to keep identical) as well: HDi/BD-J, BD+, ROM-Mark.

Both formats can stay alive only when they ocupy a small niche and forget about replacing DVD as the next optical video format, IMHO.

Diogen.

What I was getting at, if this drags on, is we could see the broad use of the dual format disc(hddvd on one side and br on the either).

This could affect our movies unless they can increase storage on both sides, but should not affect the data storage capabilities of BR. I know I know, 25 gigs is enough, but why settle for LESS.

I ultimately supported BR because of storage capacity and future potential(100gigs), so I chose a side. If all production companies went neutral and both flourished, fine. Ive already picked who I want to win(if there has to be a winner) which is why I will not buy a HDDVD player at $199, $99, etc... I also will not buy any Univ movies on SD as long as they plan to stay pro HDDVD. Im sure Im not the only one.

 

[db2]

I'm pleasantly suprised. Let's hope this line of rational thinking keeps up.

 

[diogen]

This could affect our movies unless they can increase storage on both sides...
I ultimately supported BR because of storage capacity and future potential (100gigs)...

Based on what I heard from people knowing more about optical formats than humans should be allowed to know, the chance to see HD/BD cross their today's limits of 30/50GB - and stay withing the respective standard, i.e. have today's players recognise them - is very close to zero.

Diogen.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Based on what I heard from people knowing more about optical formats than humans should be allowed to know, the chance to see HD/BD cross their today's limits of 30/50GB - and stay withing the respective standard, i.e. have today's players recognise them - is very close to zero.

Diogen.

If that is true, then the combo disc might not be so bad.

Small problem is that its delayed.

Big problem is that if both formats live, then each side needs studio support(HDDVD needs more) which is a big hill to climb.

 

[teachsac]

While not a fanboy, I do like the hits HDDVD is taking. As stated above, I want the superior format(not discussing movies) therefore I want BR.

People get so caught up in hating sony, and arguing about Movie specs they forget the technical side. Truth is, HDDVD pq side by side with BR on top of the line players is prob the same. I want a technically sound format to win.

The HD-DVD forum is larger than the BD forum because HD-DVD seems to be the format of choice for the tech crowd.

Seems to be a contradiction here. The truth of the matter is, and I own both formats so I can speak on it, that the current gen 1 and gen 2 bd players will not reach the capabilities that HD-DVD can do now.

Technological truths:
BD has a larger capacacity. Eliminate PCM and it is not really needed. That's it.

Dolby TrueHD

HD-DVD: Mandatory
BD: optional

DTS HD:

HD-DVD: Optional
BD: Optional. Although the Panasonic can do DTS HRA used by Lionsgate.

Ethernet:
HD-DVD: Mandatory
BD: OPtional

Interactivity: PIP, etc.
HD-DVD: Mandatory
BD: Not required until BDJ 1.1 No current Gen 1 or Gen 2 BD player will be able to support BDJ 1.1 HD-DVD was able to impliment PIP on all players including first gen players.

Am I missing something on how BD is technologically superior? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all three of my players (2HD-DVD, 1 BD).

S~

 

[navychop]

There was never an expectation that current players would handle more than 2 layers. But the physical structure of Blu-ray allows more layers. There have been demonstrations of 6, maybe 8 layers. These, if marketed (a pretty safe bet), will be used in computing, with whole new R/W hardware, just like the upgrades that happened with QIC. May or may not make it to movies.


If BD+ works, and is not soon cracked, it will be a very heavy blow to HD DVD. Who would want to distribute their movies on an insecure media, when a secure one was available?

 

[gadgtfreek]

Navy, like I said, two brick walls arguing. This can be argued over and over again.

When it comes down to it, BR is in the lead with storage capacity and movie sales. The deciding factor will be what Universal does in the long run.

 

[dfergie]

Personally I have HD DVD and will probably get Blu-Ray but perhaps a dual format disc with one format on one side and the other on side two... is the answer...

 

[diogen]

...If BD+ works, and is not soon cracked, it will be a very heavy blow to HD DVD.

Interesting point.
No doubts, true from a studio point of view.
But only if the movies sell (not like SACD or DVD-A). And that I wouldn't consider a given.

Anyway, I don't believe BD+ will survive this year (if used).
If it turns out to really make a difference, I would expect a pool of money to show up to compromise it (break it; make a BD that bricks players, etc.)

Diogen.

 

[navychop]

"But only if the movies sell (not like SACD or DVD-A). And that I wouldn't consider a given."

Not what we want to hear, but sadly, might be what happens.

 

[s8ist]

The CD-R to DVD-R comparison is way off when comparing HD-DVD to BD.

700MB versus 4.37-9GB?
CD format would store 8-17% of the content of a DVD (different percentages taking into account single and dual layer).

15-30GB versus 25-50GB(100 max)?
Whereas the majority of HD-DVD discs are now being produced as dual-layer 30GB discs. That means most HDDVD's are 60% the size of most BD discs.

So it's obvious that we're talking data anymore now that we've established the movie part of it isn't an argument (even though I think that's what the argument SHOULD be about). But why would I care about BD as a storage option when the discs are going to take a long time to come down in price (burners too)? As tedious as it may seem for those of us who do backups to span them across multiple DVD-R's, in the face of BD-R media and burner costs, it suddenly doesn't seem as tedious.

Right now, I'm okay with DVD-R's as my media of choice for PC's which is why the storage capacity of BD is a dubious plus. Why would I care about either HD or BD as storage formats when they're too expensive for the average consumer? BD and HDDVD as movie formats are more important to me, because that's what I'll be buying them for. If the BD technology can prove it provides a significantly better home theater experience for the price, then it will have my vote. Until then, HDDVD offers what BD only promises to offer with the added bonus of costing less.

 

[JoeSp]

s8ist, Can you tell me what HD-DVD offers that BD currently does not except for the HDi?

Does it have more blockbusters -- no.
Does it have more current titles -- no.
Does it offer more space -- no.
Does it offer a better picture -- no.
Does it offer better sound -- no.
Does it offer PCM uncompressed for playback with legacy receivers -- no.
Does it offer movies at a cheaper price -- no.
Does it offer more movies -- no.
Does it offer a wider range of studio support -- no.
Does it offer a wider range of manufacturer support -- no.
Does it offer wider retail support -- no.
Does it offer wider rental support -- no.

Uh, I'm at a loss here. Most folks buy movies for the movie itself and there is nothing HD-DVD offers except a lower price (not much when you can purchase 1st generation Samsungs for $349) and HDi which the majority of people don't even look at. Of course in October BD will offer that in Java 1.1 so that is not really an advantage expecially when less then 10% of all HD-DVD titles really take advantage of HDi.

So once again, what is it that HD-DVD is offering that BD is not?

 

[s8ist]

a lower price for comparable technology. That's all. And that should be enough. If everyone bought into HDDVD, the studios would follow. The CE industry would follow too. Doesn't seem that hard to understand. I'm pretty sure BD will win, but that doesn't mean I think it's winning for good reason. BD is an incomplete tech with pricey players. I will be in line with all of the others if [when] BD becomes a reasonable option, ...or when PS3 actually has games I want to play.