Are FTA Signals HD?

[bob95065]

I am thinking about setting up a FTA system in my house. I got a Dish Network satellite dish for free from a friend that I can use to pick up signals.

Are the signals in HD format? My wife and I currently do not watch television at all and haven't upgraded to HD. I have a home theater setup with a LCD projector that I woudl connect to a receiver. It currently isn't HD but we may upgrade the projector soon.

Anyway if the signals aren't HD I'll set up my FTA system now. If they are HD I will have to wait until I get a new projector that can handle the resolution.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[qwert1515]

You will not be able to pick up anything other that NASA with a "Dish Network satellite dish", it is too small, you need to get at least a 31" dish or larger for FTA.

The channels on Dish Network's satellites are encrypted, meaning that they are not FTA. They are only available with a subscription and Dish Network's equipment.

 

[bob95065]

If I buy a dish can I pick up non-HD channels?

 

[qwert1515]

If you buy a dish that is larger than 31" (I recommend at least a 36" dish) then you can pick up FTA signals, I would also recommend getting a motor because FTA is spread out over many satellites. Take a look at TheList to get an idea of 24/7 programing (Most 24/7 FTA channels are in SD), during events you can pick up temporary feeds.

 

[AcWxRadar]

If I buy a dish can I pick up non-HD channels?

If you buy a dish that is larger than 31" (I recommend at least a 36" dish) then you can pick up FTA signals, I would also recommend getting a motor because FTA is spread out over many satellites. Take a look at TheList to get an idea of 24/7 programing (Most 24/7 FTA channels are in SD), during events you can pick up temporary feeds.

Bob,

I have to agree with Qwert on the subject of the dish. At minimum you want a 76 cm dish which is about 31 inches. And a motor is really a necessity. The FTA channels are spread out all over the horizon, so you may pick up one or two great ones here and 37 there and 16 over here and 3-5 over here, etc.

Not great when you just pick out any one satellite, but a huge benefit when you can use them all. That is why you should have a motorized dish.

When it comes to the physical size of the dish antenna, that can be misleading. Just because a 76 cm dish is smaller than a 90 cm dish, does not mean that the 90 cm dish will pick up more channels or pick them up with better quality.

It depends upon the overal geometry of the dish. The affective apperature of the dish is what you need to be looking for. If my 76 cm dish has an affective apperature of (let me pull a number out of hat here for discussion) 86 cm, but another dish that is 90 cm has an affective appearture of 83 cm, you had better go with the smaller dish.

In this case, the smaller dish is also better, not only because it's affective apperture is better, but a smaller dish has a better wind resistance (it is less of a sail).

The other charicteristic that you want to look at is the gain of the dish. The higher the gain, the better.

All of these charateristics do not always go hand in hand, so you have to weigh each one individually.

Personally, I use a 76 cm dish and when it is aligned properly, I can put it up against nearly any 90 cm dish. But, that is just one model from one manufacturer (Winegard). Other dish antennas of the same size may not compare so well. This is why you have to look into the specifications.

Radar

 

[Smith P.]

Aperture is a parameter not a dish, but LNB[F] and size of dish is critical - bigger dish accumulate more signal (energy) and allow to separate it from adjusted satellites ie decrease interference and raise S/N ratio, etc, etc...

[A lot of misconceptions posted here ]

 

[Mr Tony]

Not necessarily

My 76cm Winegard has been able to outperform some 90cm cheapo model. Better signal quality and less dropouts

The "smaller is less of a sail" line I dont buy as I have a 6 foot dish on top of a table and havent had any issues with 30mph or higher winds

 

[Smith P.]

"Expensive-cheaper" doesn't work here - if the dish is parabolic (+- 1 mm) and your LNBF sit in focal point and its f/d is correct, the 90cm always will outperform 76cm; that's a low of physics. Regardless forum discussions.

 

[Mr Tony]

Laws of physics doesn't always work with real tests of equipment
(lemme guess...some computer told you that a bigger dish is always better)

 

[Smith P.]

I'm EE, was IT , before was in miltary and rocket design - don't try that arguments again ... Sure, having dirty hands also helping do many things right too.

 

[Mr Tony]

I'm EE, was IT , before was in miltary and rocket design - don't try that arguments again ...

yippee...want a cookie? And I don't know what argument you're talking about

As a few of us have noted, some dishes are poorly made so just because its a 90cm dish it may not perform as good as a 76cm dish. It has been proven in real testing. Not something that a computer says.

There are people out there who will doubt anything someone says

 

[Smith P.]

"poorly made " - that's good to know - finally right words came here.


And I did respond to the phrase:
"When it comes to the physical size of the dish antenna, that can be misleading. Just because a 76 cm dish is smaller than a 90 cm dish, does not mean that the 90 cm dish will pick up more channels or pick them up with better quality."

There was nothing about cheap or poorly made - just was a shoot from hip.

 

[Pepper]

my interpretation, "poorly made" is equivalent in implied meaning to the original wording "cheapo" - yer both right.

 

[Tron]

I find that my 90CM 3ABN (Azure Shine, same reflector as the Geosat Pro 90) generally gives better performance than my Winegard 2076 did when I was using it, but then the 3ABN also holds the heavy Invacom Quad LNBF without it sagging. This probably makes a noticeable difference. I like the fact that the 3ABN has side support struts.

Getting back to the OP's original question, there is very little full-time HD on Ku-Band. PBS-HD on 125w is about it, but there are many feeds (temporary channels that come and go, such as news and sports events) that are in HD.

 

[Smith P.]

Again ?!

My p0int was regarding the phrase:
"When it comes to the physical size of the dish antenna, that can be misleading. Just because a 76 cm dish is smaller than a 90 cm dish, does not mean that the 90 cm dish will pick up more channels or pick them up with better quality."
and there wasn't any word about poorly made or cheap dish.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Antenna effective area
Excerpts from: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In telecommunications, antenna effective area or effective aperture is the functionally equivalent area from which an antenna directed toward the source of the received signal gathers or absorbs the energy of an incident electromagnetic wave.


Simply increasing the size of an antenna does not guarantee an increase in effective area; however, other factors being equal, antennas with higher maximum effective area are generally larger.


Carefully designed and constructed reflector antennas can easily have efficiencies in the 0.65 to 0.75 range; and values as high as 0.85 have been reported in the literature. Very high aperture efficiency is not always desirable, since such antennas tend to have high side lobe levels.


Factors limiting the aperture efficiency are non uniform illumination of the aperture, phase variations of the aperture field (typically due to surface errors in a reflector and high flare angle in horns), and scattering from obstructions. The incident wavefront may also not be completely phase coherent due to variations in the propagating medium; this results in an increase in the effective area of an antenna not resulting in a commensurate increase in signal power, an effect known as 'aperture loss'.


AcWxRadar

 

[AcWxRadar]

Not necessarily

My 76cm Winegard has been able to outperform some 90cm cheapo model. Better signal quality and less dropouts.

I honestly can confirm this and I know several people locally who can also prove it to be true.

The "smaller is less of a sail" line I dont buy as I have a 6 foot dish on top of a table and havent had any issues with 30mph or higher winds

The wind survivability factor is probably not a huge consideration for most, but in reality, it can become a factor. This is obviously apparent when you calculate the forces per square cm of the dish. Most people who have lost a dish due to wind have likely lost their entire house as well, or their barn and the tool shed, too!

The main point I would make in this regard is that the mounting hardware has to be able to withstand these forces. We don't really have to worry and fret about the dish itself, but I don't think you want it to rip part of your roof or siding off in a windstorm along with the dish. So a smaller dish will obviously reduce this possibility.

However, I do agree that it is probably not a huge consideration in most cases. Except maybe for keeping the dish aligned.

Radar

 

[AcWxRadar]

I find that my 90CM 3ABN (Azure Shine, same reflector as the Geosat Pro 90) generally gives better performance than my Winegard 2076 did when I was using it, but then the 3ABN also holds the heavy Invacom Quad LNBF without it sagging. This probably makes a noticeable difference. I like the fact that the 3ABN has side support struts.
Getting back to the OP's original question, there is very little full-time HD on Ku-Band. PBS-HD on 125w is about it, but there are many feeds (temporary channels that come and go, such as news and sports events) that are in HD.

I agree with this as well. I was rather dissapointed that the DS-2076 did not come with support rods. I made my own and even robbed those off my 1M Winegard to use on the 76cm Winegard.

Radar

 

[AcWxRadar]

yippee...want a cookie? And I don't know what argument you're talking about

As a few of us have noted, some dishes are poorly made so just because its a 90cm dish it may not perform as good as a 76cm dish. It has been proven in real testing. Not something that a computer says.

There are people out there who will doubt anything someone says

Ice, I agree with you here as I have legitimately proven the difference between a 76 cm Winegard and a 1 M Winegard.

You have a DS-2076, correct? I do, too. The difference between the two is not what anyone else would expect. I did not find much of an advantage for Ku band in general.

I don't think there is any substance to calling something "cheap" or "crap". There is good and better and at some point in the Ku dish size, you have to call it quits and go to a BUD dish.

There are detectable differences in the reception, but in my opinion, these extra gains are not worth the additional money required to buy the dish, to buy a beefier motor to drive it or all the extra labor involved (I mean it is harder to haul up a ladder and set it and align it).

Honestly... yes you do lose a bit of reception by going to a 76 cm dish, but it is so minimal that I cannot see any benefits with a 1 M dish. I have two 1 M Winegard dishes and I don't use them. I use the DS-2076 because I get better results. These are all new antennas, not something out of someone's junk yard, so there is nothing wrong with them.

I guess I don't wish to spend $2,380,000,000 to set up a VLA just to watch ONN! HA! I am not working for SETI here, I just wanna play around with a few channels for fun! I think that Smith, P. would have us on the NASA training program just so that we can watch RFDTV and learn about cows! Which is OK, I like cows!

Ouch! My wife just slapped me!

Radar

 

[Smith P.]

Radar, I don't see any additional points after my post#8. Perhaps I didn't mention difference in material of the parabolic reflector if we are talking about same part.