Dish 3rd Quarter 2014 10Q

[nelson61]

The 3rd quarter 10Q is available from the SEC site.

A quick review makes one understand why Dish is fighting to keep costs down.

Dish 3rd Quarter 2014 10Q

Subscribers Decreased from 14.049 million to 14.041

Subscriber Acquisition Cost Increased from $842 to $861

 

[slick1ru2]

Dropped 12k subs when the experts had expected them picking up 22k. Of course that was before the Turner dispute. But Dish didn't attribute that as the cause. Right.

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/dish-networks-quarterly-revenue-rises-4-8-percent-112505393--sector.html

 

[Scherrman]

I can't imagine that Dish lost that many customers due to the Tuner dispute.

 

[MikeD-C05]

But their average revenue per sub went up to $84.39 from $80.98. So their cost per sub are going up at the same time as they lose 12,000 subs. I guess that idea to hike the price of the 2nd hopper from $7.00 to $12.00 and charging for HD access for $10.00 after 24 month commitment is up , has really paid off for old Charlie. Churn has gone up 1.67 from 1.66 this time last year in the 3rd quarter. Their net income totaled 146 million for this quarter compared to 315 million from last year in the same quarter. Not good DISH.

 

[Scherrman]

But their average revenue per sub went up to $84.39 from $80.98. So their cost per sub are going up at the same time as they lose 12,000 subs. I guess that idea to hike the price of the 2nd hopper from $7.00 to $12.00 has really paid off for old Charlie. Churn has gone up 1.67 from 1.66 this time last year in the 3rd quarter. Their net income totaled 146 million for this quarter compared to 315 million from last year in the same quarter. Not good DISH.

I'm curious how the rest of the pay TV world is doing. I can't imagine all the others are doing that well either. It seems all customers are thinking more and more about cutting the cord.

 

[MikeD-C05]

The average subscriber can not pay these yearly programming increases + the ever increasing FEES that DISH is coming up with . The 2nd hopper fee for $12.00 from $7.00 was a bait and switch tactic that has backfired on them. Charging $10.00 again for HD access after the 24 month commitment is stupid and encourages nothing but CHURN. HD is the norm ,not the exception any longer. I keep saying it , DISH is shooting themselves in the foot with all the fees. Every time they go up on them or create new ones or revive older ones like the hd access fee, they are making more and more customers choose to cut the cord. Wages have been flat or stagnant for years now in this economy. Does it make sense for the "low priced leader" to keep going up on fees that they create and control on their end?

 

[rajmarie]

The average subscriber can not pay these yearly programming increases + the ever increasing FEES that DISH is coming up with . The 2nd hopper fee for $12.00 from $7.00 was a bait and switch tactic that has backfired on them. Charging $10.00 again for HD access after the 24 month commitment is stupid and encourages nothing but CHURN. HD is the norm ,not the exception any longer. I keep saying it , DISH is shooting themselves in the foot with all the fees. Every time they go up on them or create new ones or revive older ones like the hd access fee, they are making more and more customers choose to cut the cord. Wages have been flat or stagnant for years now in this economy. Does it make sense for the "low priced leader" to keep going up on fees that they create and control on their end?

And it seems that Dish is learning this the hard way. As being discussed in another thread...Dish is returning to HD for Life promotion. But I agreed that the ever increasing fees...specially for equipment. To go to Hopper with 1 Joey...the increase if $12. That's a lot of money per month. Not to mention as you told...increase in 2nd Hopper fees.

But its not only Dish....in the end..all the providers will feel the burnt. They keep advertising low monthly package cost...but soon the equipment and miscellanies fees will be more then those packages. I have been shaving my package from AT250 to AT200 to AT120 presently.

 

[Scherrman]

The average subscriber can not pay these yearly programming increases + the ever increasing FEES that DISH is coming up with . The 2nd hopper fee for $12.00 from $7.00 was a bait and switch tactic that has backfired on them. Charging $10.00 again for HD access after the 24 month commitment is stupid and encourages nothing but CHURN. HD is the norm ,not the exception any longer. I keep saying it , DISH is shooting themselves in the foot with all the fees. Every time they go up on them or create new ones or revive older ones like the hd access fee, they are making more and more customers choose to cut the cord. Wages have been flat or stagnant for years now in this economy. Does it make sense for the "low priced leader" to keep going up on fees that they create and control on their end?

Please do not use the HD promotion as an example because it did not affect anything whatsoever. Not one person had to pay for HD because of the change in promotions. I know that Dish keeps raising their rates but you can't just single them out. Every TV provided is raising their rates every year and every TV provider has extra fees and ways to hide them.

I'll say it again, you need to look at the final product and price and compare them to everyone else. If Dish is still cheaper or the same price as the competition then where is the problem? Just because they are raising rates they are the bad guy, so I'm going to switch to another provider where I'll just end up paying more money. It's like acting out of spite or something.

 

[Scherrman]

And it seems that Dish is learning this the hard way. As being discussed in another thread...Dish is returning to HD for Life promotion. But I agreed that the ever increasing fees...specially for equipment. To go to Hopper with 1 Joey...the increase if $12. That's a lot of money per month. Not to mention as you told...increase in 2nd Hopper fees.

But its not only Dish....in the end..all the providers will feel the burnt. They keep advertising low monthly package cost...but soon the equipment and miscellanies fees will be more then those packages. I have been shaving my package from AT250 to AT200 to AT120 presently.

You're right, it's important to keep other providers in mind as well. It's a big jump in fees for a DirecTV customer to upgrade to their Genie system. I see no difference at all with them. This is not a Dish problem, this is a pay TV industry problem as a whole.

 

[dangue]

The average subscriber can not pay these yearly programming increases + the ever increasing FEES that DISH is coming up with . The 2nd hopper fee for $12.00 from $7.00 was a bait and switch tactic that has backfired on them. Charging $10.00 again for HD access after the 24 month commitment is stupid and encourages nothing but CHURN. HD is the norm ,not the exception any longer. I keep saying it , DISH is shooting themselves in the foot with all the fees. Every time they go up on them or create new ones or revive older ones like the hd access fee, they are making more and more customers choose to cut the cord. Wages have been flat or stagnant for years now in this economy. Does it make sense for the "low priced leader" to keep going up on fees that they create and control on their end?

You kill me with your repeated fee rant. This is a for profit business. Last I read, after expenses Dish averages ~$5/sub/month in total profit. Without the fees, the costs would be priced into the base package price because they'd go out of business if they weren't profitable. $5 is not a huge margin to play with.

Using fees instead of including it in base package price means that subscribers have the option of choosing technology that suits them and keeps their prices down. Some of us pay the fees because we want the added functionality and are willing to pay the price. But we always have the option of trading in our Hoppers or reducing packages to suit our pricing sensibilities.

Complaining about "made up fees" that keep the business profitable is counter productive and not based in reality. If you have an alternate pricing structure that will keep Dish profitable without increasing base prices and reducing lost cost subscriber choice, by all means share it. Expecting Dish to offer service at a loss is not going to happen. I would be more supportive of your position if Dish's per sub margins were much much higher (say 3 or 4 times what they are); that would give them room to absorb price increases without immediately passing them on to us.

 

[rad]

It's a big jump in fees for a DirecTV customer to upgrade to their Genie system.

If a DIRECTV customer, that already had a HD DVR and WHDVR on their account then there is no additional fees for upgrading to a Genie since they're already paying the advanced receiver, WHDVR and HD access fees. If they didn't have WHDVR then you're only talking about the extra $3/month, don't call that a big jump in fees.

 

[KAB]

I can't imagine that Dish lost that many customers due to the Tuner dispute.

Of course they didn't. The report is for Q3. Turner dispute didn't start until Q4. No gray matter there.

 

[Scherrman]

If a DIRECTV customer, that already had a HD DVR and WHDVR on their account then there is no additional fees for upgrading to a Genie since they're already paying the advanced receiver, WHDVR and HD access fees. If they didn't have WHDVR then you're only talking about the extra $3/month, don't call that a big jump in fees.

I don't know much about DirecTV fees, what does a customer that has a basic 4 room setup with DVR pay for normally? I'm not talking whole home DVR either. I'm talking about the average customer that would go from a basic setup to the Genie system.

I'm just trying to make a similar comparison of a basic Dish customer upgrading to the Hopper and a basic DirecTV customer upgrading to the Genie.

 

[lparsons21]

I don't know much about DirecTV fees, what does a customer that has a basic 4 room setup with DVR pay for normally? I'm not talking whole home DVR either. I'm talking about the average customer that would go from a basic setup to the Genie system.

I'm just trying to make a similar comparison of a basic Dish customer upgrading to the Hopper and a basic DirecTV customer upgrading to the Genie.

A Genie with 3 Genie Minis would bill in fees :
1. Advanced receiver fee - $23/month for new customers
2. 4X$6=$24 for each receiver, including the 1st one.

This is at retail for a new customer.

If it is an upgrade, then the Advanced receiver fee would be $25 and they don't pay a receiver fee on the first one.

 

[Tampa8]

You kill me with your repeated fee rant. This is a for profit business. Last I read, after expenses Dish averages ~$5/sub/month in total profit. Without the fees, the costs would be priced into the base package price because they'd go out of business if they weren't profitable. $5 is not a huge margin to play with.

Using fees instead of including it in base package price means that subscribers have the option of choosing technology that suits them and keeps their prices down. Some of us pay the fees because we want the added functionality and are willing to pay the price. But we always have the option of trading in our Hoppers or reducing packages to suit our pricing sensibilities.

Complaining about "made up fees" that keep the business profitable is counter productive and not based in reality. If you have an alternate pricing structure that will keep Dish profitable without increasing base prices and reducing lost cost subscriber choice, by all means share it. Expecting Dish to offer service at a loss is not going to happen. I would be more supportive of your position if Dish's per sub margins were much much higher (say 3 or 4 times what they are); that would give them room to absorb price increases without immediately passing them on to us.

Thank you thank you thank you....
I demonstrated that I am paying $144 a year less with DISH over DirectTV (And Charter and likely most all Cable) by choosing to stay with a VIP system and compared that to the DirectTV non whole home offerings. In addition posts make it sound like DISH is the only one with fees. It's become part of all the business plans.

 

[rad]

I don't know much about DirecTV fees, what does a customer that has a basic 4 room setup with DVR pay for normally? I'm not talking whole home DVR either. I'm talking about the average customer that would go from a basic setup to the Genie system.

I'm just trying to make a similar comparison of a basic Dish customer upgrading to the Hopper and a basic DirecTV customer upgrading to the Genie.

If you're talking about a customer with a HDDVR they're already going to be paying the HD access charge and the advanced receiver charge, any additonal receivers, be SD, HD, DVR or non-DVR is $6/month, no difference between the receivers. If they add WHDVR then there is that additonal charge, last I knew it was $3/month.

A Genie doesn't cost any more then any other HD DVR except it forces the WHDVR fee to be added.

So if a customer has four HD receives now, with one being a HD DVR and WHDVR, replacing any one of those receivers with a Genie results in exactly the same monthly fees, no change.

 

[Scherrman]

So how much is it just to have an HDDVR with DirecTV?

 

[lparsons21]

So how much is it just to have an HDDVR with DirecTV?

I have one Genie and nothing else and pay $25/month Advanced Receiver Fee, or would after the promo is gone. Not sure if it is the same if you only have one non-Genie HR unit, but I think so.

 

[rad]

I have one Genie and nothing else and pay $25/month Advanced Receiver Fee, or would after the promo is gone. Not sure if it is the same if you only have one non-Genie HR unit, but I think so.

My bill has $10 for a HD Access fee and $10 for the Advanced Receiver fee, so if all you have is a HD DVR then that's what you would pay. If you add any other non Genie receiver and don't add WHDVR then that's still what you pay besides the $6/month receiver fee. I have WHDVR, which I had before I got a Genie so that adds $3/month for a total of $23 in fees (HD/DVR/WHDVR).

 

[Scherrman]

I have one Genie and nothing else and pay $25/month Advanced Receiver Fee, or would after the promo is gone. Not sure if it is the same if you only have one non-Genie HR unit, but I think so.

Wow! Now that's a fee. And people complain about paying $12 to have the Hopper.