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KAB

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Dec 8, 2007 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Max. cable lengths...HDMI vs Component

Will be getting a new 42" LCD in a few days. We will primarily watch OTA which I plan to feed to the set directly from antenna. However, when occasions arise, I would like to be able to connect to my 622 to mirror our TV1 (just don't want to pull the trigger for another 622/722 because we would not get the real advantage from it due to limited viewing on this set). Distance from 622 to new set is 50'. Ideally, so as not to disturb my audio/video hook-up via HDMI on TV1, I would like to use 5 connector component...a three foot cable from the 622 with a coupler and then a 50' stashed under the couch next to TV2 that I would just roll out when needed. No home theater in this room, just running stereo out to a receiver. So question is, will component handle the length?

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vegassatellite

Dec 2, 2007

Not all HDMI cables are equal. Monster cable rates their HDMI cables according to their throughput. They have cables rated up to 10.2GBPS. The regular HDMI cables out there aren't very high in throughput at all. In fact, many of them have severely crappy waveforms with just a 2 meter long cable pushing 2.23GBPS. If you want to run a long length, buy a Monster Cable 1000 series cable. It's gonna cost you though.

Andrewwski

Dec 2, 2007

vegassatellite said:
Not all HDMI cables are equal. Monster cable rates their HDMI cables according to their throughput. They have cables rated up to 10.2GBPS. The regular HDMI cables out there aren't very high in throughput at all. In fact, many of them have severely crappy waveforms with just a 2 meter long cable pushing 2.23GBPS. If you want to run a long length, buy a Monster Cable 1000 series cable. It's gonna cost you though.

Monster is overpriced and won't offer any advantage.

vegassatellite

Dec 2, 2007

Andrewwski said:
Monster is overpriced and won't offer any advantage.

Go here and check out the video "Putting Cables To The Test".

whatchel1

Dec 4, 2007

Promo

vegassatellite said:
Go here and check out the video "Putting Cables To The Test".

That is a Monster promo piece. Of course they are going to say their's is better than anyone else's cable. They want you to buy their stuff. I formerly did installs for an A/V high end company. We loved it when we were sent out to install the equipment w/ Monster cable. Why, cause we would be able to keep the cables that came with the set-ups for other jobs that didn't have cables. Oh BTW the sales people love Monster too the mark up on it is 300%. What makes the difference is what is alluded too in the Monster ad. It is the size of the conductor that carries the signal from the 2 units that makes a difference. Mono-price sell 22AWG cable and notice in the video they never tell you what AWG is being used for any of the cables. You don't have to believe me I have a link here as well: HDMI Cable: Price Gouging?

vegassatellite

Dec 4, 2007

whatchel1 said:
That is a Monster promo piece. Of course they are going to say their's is better than anyone else's cable. They want you to buy their stuff. I formerly did installs for an A/V high end company. We loved it when we were sent out to install the equipment w/ Monster cable. Why, cause we would be able to keep the cables that came with the set-ups for other jobs that didn't have cables. Oh BTW the sales people love Monster too the mark up on it is 300%. What makes the difference is what is alluded too in the Monster ad. It is the size of the conductor that carries the signal from the 2 units that makes a difference. Mono-price sell 22AWG cable and notice in the video they never tell you what AWG is being used for any of the cables. You don't have to believe me I have a link here as well: HDMI Cable: Price Gouging?

Congratulations on posting a link to where a bunch of unqualified, uneducated (in regards to the technology) are disputing the validity of claims made by many cable manufacturers.

1080i, while much larger than 480p in the volume of data sent from component to TV, it's certainly not going to stop there. Even HD content is still shot at 24FPS. However, for gamers, a video game can be put out in higher resolutions than 1080P with a refresh rate of 120hz and 16 bit color. The average HDMI cable would not be able to handle that much throughput without collisions, reflections and other losses/corruption of data. That is where the GBPS rating comes into play. The more Gigabits of data a cable can pass per second, the better your end result (TV pic and audio) will be.

You can take 8-conductor bell wire and put RJ45 connectors on it, but that won't make it a cat5 or cat6 cable.

If you don't like Monster, then there are other certified cables out there. There's a few companies that certify HDMI cables, just look for the cables that have have been independently tested and you'll have less problems. Although there isn't any broadcast content that is pushing 1080x1920x120hz, cables that can push that level of data will have no problem passing a Dishnet or DirecTV receiver's signal.

whatchel1

Dec 6, 2007

Just pointing

vegassatellite said:
Congratulations on posting a link to where a bunch of unqualified, uneducated (in regards to the technology) are disputing the validity of claims made by many cable manufacturers.

1080i, while much larger than 480p in the volume of data sent from component to TV, it's certainly not going to stop there. Even HD content is still shot at 24FPS. However, for gamers, a video game can be put out in higher resolutions than 1080P with a refresh rate of 120hz and 16 bit color. The average HDMI cable would not be able to handle that much throughput without collisions, reflections and other losses/corruption of data. That is where the GBPS rating comes into play. The more Gigabits of data a cable can pass per second, the better your end result (TV pic and audio) will be.

You can take 8-conductor bell wire and put RJ45 connectors on it, but that won't make it a cat5 or cat6 cable.

If you don't like Monster, then there are other certified cables out there. There's a few companies that certify HDMI cables, just look for the cables that have have been independently tested and you'll have less problems. Although there isn't any broadcast content that is pushing 1080x1920x120hz, cables that can push that level of data will have no problem passing a Dishnet or DirecTV receiver's signal.

I'm just pointing out that you are using a Monster promo as fact. I don't buy Monster for the reason I stated: It's mark up is 300%. If someone wants to pay that kind of mark up that is up to them. You are correct that taking 8 conductor bell & put RJ45 connectors on it and it isn't cat 5. The reason is that bell wire isn't twisted pairs that cancels out noise. That's why I would never suggest one do that. That has nothing to do with the fact that 2 cables w/ the same AWG are going to do the same thing: that's engineering 101.

vegassatellite

Dec 7, 2007

whatchel1 said:
I'm just pointing out that you are using a Monster promo as fact. I don't buy Monster for the reason I stated: It's mark up is 300%. If someone wants to pay that kind of mark up that is up to them. You are correct that taking 8 conductor bell & put RJ45 connectors on it and it isn't cat 5. The reason is that bell wire isn't twisted pairs that cancels out noise. That's why I would never suggest one do that. That has nothing to do with the fact that 2 cables w/ the same AWG are going to do the same thing: that's engineering 101.

You assume that all copper is the same. Some of those cheaper cables use weaker grades of copper that has other particles such as other metals, oxygen, etc. that change the signal properties of the conductor. An air bubble only a few atoms wide can impact signal characteristics. So can a small piece of slag somewhere in the copper.

Consider two gold ingots. Both appear to be the same size and weight and therefore one might assume they are equal. However, a .999 fine ingot would be worth more than a .99 fine ingot. The difference is the amount of other undesirable elements and copper is subject to the same characteristics.

The other thing that makes a huge difference is the termination of the conductors. A cheaply made cable could have poor terminations that damage the signal. Once a signal is put off the correct wavelength it can reflect all over the place and collide with other signals and in the worst cases, degrade the signal so much that the picture and sound is rendered useless.

As far as HDMI cable goes, 1080i really doesn't pose much load in terms of actual throughput on the cable. However, once you start running more data-intense applications like 1080P, higher refresh rates like 120hz, 12bit color instead of 8bit color, the volume of data pushed through that cable goes up and the error counts go up with it. Errors have a more catastrophic effect as data rates increase. Imagine a crash on a fast-moving busy freeway versus a crash on a side street. Which one ends up taking out the most cars?

The volume of lost data on a cheap HDMI on a typical 1080i application probably isn't enough for most people to notice. That doesn't mean the lost data isn't occurring. Dish and Direct both do plenty to reduce the quality of the HD picture, no need to let cabling help them with that.

vegassatellite

Dec 7, 2007

I sell the $9 ones too. I just show them the picture on both cables and explain the speed ratings. Some buy, some don't. Most agree that the Monster cables have better picture. Most of the ones I install though don't get hooked up to satellite receivers, they get hooked to the PS3 or B-Ray. Dish and DirecTV's HD is inherently crappy enough to begin with. That's why places like UE will use alternative sources like a looped B-Ray or HD-DVD for their displays.

primetimeguy

Dec 7, 2007

vegassatellite said:
I sell the $9 ones too. I just show them the picture on both cables and explain the speed ratings. Some buy, some don't. Most agree that the Monster cables have better picture. Most of the ones I install though don't get hooked up to satellite receivers, they get hooked to the PS3 or B-Ray. Dish and DirecTV's HD is inherently crappy enough to begin with. That's why places like UE will use alternative sources like a looped B-Ray or HD-DVD for their displays.

Show them the picture without getting into the "speed ratings" and see which one is better. The brain is easily influenced.

We are obviously on opposite sides to this matter, but I have an open mind and if you can provide links to any data or studies showing the $100 cable is better than the $10 I'd gladly read it.

vegassatellite

Dec 8, 2007

primetimeguy said:
Show them the picture without getting into the "speed ratings" and see which one is better. The brain is easily influenced.

We are obviously on opposite sides to this matter, but I have an open mind and if you can provide links to any data or studies showing the $100 cable is better than the $10 I'd gladly read it.

There are independent labs that certify HDMI cables. I notice that Monoprice doesn't carry any branding from any independent testing laboratories. They mention Category 2 certification but they are not showing any branding by HDMI Licensing, LLC, the creators of the HDMI 1.3 certification. Funny thing is though, Monoprice's explanation of the Category 2 certification (Question: What is category 2?) is copied verbatim from HDMI Licensing's own Trademark and Logo Usage PDF document (bottom of page 2). I find it odd that they would plagiarize HDMI Licensing's document but don't have their trademark branding on their products. I see nothing on Monoprice's website to say they have license with HDMI Licensing. If their cables are certified by HDMI Licensing, why not advertise the endorsement?

I think I will contact monoprice and ask them for their compliance certificates, if they have any.

Blue Jeans advertises they have a compliance certificate under 1.3a for a 45 foot cable, so it would appear their cables ought to be good. They also discuss the "eye pattern" test that I linked with the Monster link.

8bitbytes

Dec 8, 2007

vegassatellite said:
There are independent labs that certify HDMI cables. I notice that Monoprice doesn't carry any branding from any independent testing laboratories. They mention Category 2 certification but they are not showing any branding by HDMI Licensing, LLC, the creators of the HDMI 1.3 certification. Funny thing is though, Monoprice's explanation of the Category 2 certification (Question: What is category 2?) is copied verbatim from HDMI Licensing's own Trademark and Logo Usage PDF document (bottom of page 2). I find it odd that they would plagiarize HDMI Licensing's document but don't have their trademark branding on their products. I see nothing on Monoprice's website to say they have license with HDMI Licensing. If their cables are certified by HDMI Licensing, why not advertise the endorsement?

I think I will contact monoprice and ask them for their compliance certificates, if they have any.

Blue Jeans advertises they have a compliance certificate under 1.3a for a 45 foot cable, so it would appear their cables ought to be good. They also discuss the "eye pattern" test that I linked with the Monster link.

You have to pay to use the logos, but those logos don't mean anything other than they approved of your certification method. Just like the ADA label on toothpaste.

vegassatellite

Dec 8, 2007

8bitbytes said:
You have to pay to use the logos, but those logos don't mean anything other than they approved of your certification method. Just like the ADA label on toothpaste.

Actually, HDMI licensing has labs that do the testing. You send the cable to the lab, if it passes, they issue you the certificate.

Prior to mass producing or distributing any Licensed Product or component that claims compliance with the HDMI Specification (or allowing someone else to do such activities), each Adopter must test a representative sample for HDMI compliance. First, the Adopter must self-test as specified in the then-current HDMI Compliance Test Specification. The HDMI Compliance Test Specification provides a suite of testing procedures, and establishes certain minimum requirements specifying how each HDMI Adopter should test Licensed Products for conformance to the HDMI Specification. Such compliance testing is limited to evaluation of a product's compliance with the HDMI Specification and is not designed to test the overall performance of any Licensed Product.

Second, each Adopter must submit the first product of each Licensed Product type (i.e. source, sink, repeater, or cable) to an HDMI Authorized Testing Center (ATC) for testing. Once an Adopter product of each type has passed testing, it is not required to submit to the ATC subsequent products of that type. For example, once an Adopter's television has passed ATC testing, it is not required to submit another television or other display for ATC testing. However, to help ensure HDMI interoperability, we encourage Adopters to use the ATCs.

The HDMI Compliance Test Specification represents the minimum compliance testing required for Licensed Products. Successful completion of the Compliance Test Specification or ATC Testing does not guarantee that any product will conform to the High-Definition Multimedia Interfaces, function correctly or interoperate with any other product. Each Adopter is solely responsible for ensuring that its products function correctly, fully comply with the HDMI Specification and Adopter Agreement, and interoperate with other products.
For more information, or to facilitate testing exercises, the following documents are available for download in .pdf format.

SOURCE

whatchel1

Dec 8, 2007

So sorry

vegassatellite said:
You assume that all copper is the same. Some of those cheaper cables use weaker grades of copper that has other particles such as other metals, oxygen, etc. that change the signal properties of the conductor. An air bubble only a few atoms wide can impact signal characteristics. So can a small piece of slag somewhere in the copper.

Consider two gold ingots. Both appear to be the same size and weight and therefore one might assume they are equal. However, a .999 fine ingot would be worth more than a .99 fine ingot. The difference is the amount of other undesirable elements and copper is subject to the same characteristics.

The other thing that makes a huge difference is the termination of the conductors. A cheaply made cable could have poor terminations that damage the signal. Once a signal is put off the correct wavelength it can reflect all over the place and collide with other signals and in the worst cases, degrade the signal so much that the picture and sound is rendered useless.

As far as HDMI cable goes, 1080i really doesn't pose much load in terms of actual throughput on the cable. However, once you start running more data-intense applications like 1080P, higher refresh rates like 120hz, 12bit color instead of 8bit color, the volume of data pushed through that cable goes up and the error counts go up with it. Errors have a more catastrophic effect as data rates increase. Imagine a crash on a fast-moving busy freeway versus a crash on a side street. Which one ends up taking out the most cars?

The volume of lost data on a cheap HDMI on a typical 1080i application probably isn't enough for most people to notice. That doesn't mean the lost data isn't occurring. Dish and Direct both do plenty to reduce the quality of the HD picture, no need to let cabling help them with that.

I'm so sorry I disagreed with you since you must have a degree in SALES. I guess my degree in broadcast engineering doesn't count. Your statement above is sales pitch. Different quality of copper makes little difference since the signal travels on the skin of the cable so that is why AWG makes the difference. The only thing that can degrade the signal is corrosion on the outside of the copper which causes capacitance problems. An air void inside the copper makes no difference the signal never sees it. When you are saying termination of the cable I'm going to have to guess you mean connection quality of the wire to the connector. Termination is a different thing entirely than the build of the cable. Termination is the load that two devices are connected too. The build of the connection can only make a difference if they use low quality attachment points from cable to connector. Such as really cheap solder, lead solder that has very low amount of tin in it. Of course now we get into gold on the connectors. I borrowed the following from Wikipedia.

Electronics

Gold plating is often used in electronics, to provide a corrosion-resistant electrically conductive layer on copper, typically in electrical connectors and printed circuit boards.

With direct gold-on-copper plating, the copper atoms tend to diffuse through the gold layer, causing tarnishing of its surface and formation of an oxide and/or sulfide layer.

A layer of a suitable barrier metal, usually nickel, is usually deposited on the copper substrate before the gold plating. The layer of nickel provides mechanical backing for the gold layer, improving its wear resistance. It also reduces the impact of pores present in the gold layer.

Both the nickel and gold layers are usually deposited by electroplating. Electroless plating is used as well, however the deposited layer is unsuitable for long-term corrosion protection nor for wire bonding, as the resulting layer is typically only 97% pure and thin (0.5-0.75 µm). As the deposit is based on displacement of some of the copper, electroless nickel plating may be unsuitable for boards with very fine traces.

At higher frequencies, the skin effect may cause higher losses due to higher electrical resistance of nickel; a nickel-plated trace can have its useful length shortened three times in the 1 GHz band in comparison with the non-plated one. Selective plating is used, depositing the nickel and gold layers only on areas where it is required and does not cause the detrimental side effects.

Gold plating may lead to formation of gold whiskers.

Soldering issues

Soldering gold-plated parts can be tricky.

Gold is soluble in solder. Solder which contains more than 5% gold can become brittle. The joint surface is dull-looking.

Gold reacts with both tin and lead in their liquid state, forming brittle intermetallics. When eutectic 63% Sn - 37% Pb solder is used, no lead-gold compounds are formed, because gold preferentially reacts with tin, forming the AuSn4 compound. Particles of AuSn4 disperse in the solder matrix, forming preferential cleavage planes, significantly lowering the mechanical strength and therefore reliability of the resulting solder joints.

If the gold layer does not completely dissolve into the solder, then slow intermetallic reactions can proceed in the solid state as the tin and gold atoms cross-migrate. Intermetallics have poor electrical conductivity and low strength. The ongoing intermetallic reactions also cause Kirkendall voiding, leading to mechanical failure of the joint, similar to the degradation of gold-aluminum bonds known as purple plague.

A 2-3 µm layer of gold dissolves completely within one second during typical wave soldering conditions. Layers of gold thinner than 0.5 µm (20 microinches) also dissolve completely into the solder, exposing the underlying metal (usually nickel) to the solder. Impurities in the nickel layer can prevent the solder from bonding to it. Electroless nickel plating contains phosphorus. Nickel with more than 8% phosphorus is not solderable. Electrodeposited nickel may contain nickel hydroxide. An acid bath is required to remove the passivation layer before applying the gold layer; improper cleaning leads to a nickel surface difficult to solder. A stronger flux can help, as it aids dissolving the oxide deposits. Carbon is another nickel contaminant that hinders solderability

I hope this helps to enlighten the subject of cabling. If you can afford Monster and think it is worth 300% more then buy it , use it & be happy. If you are like most people go with work is working well at the lower price.

vegassatellite

Dec 8, 2007

whatchel1 said:
I'm so sorry I disagreed with you since you must have a degree in SALES. I guess my degree in broadcast engineering doesn't count. Your statement above is sales pitch. Different quality of copper makes little difference since the signal travels on the skin of the cable so that is why AWG makes the difference. The only thing that can degrade the signal is corrosion on the outside of the copper which causes capacitance problems. An air void inside the copper makes no difference the signal never sees it. When you are saying termination of the cable I'm going to have to guess you mean connection quality of the wire to the connector. Termination is a different thing entirely than the build of the cable. Termination is the load that two devices are connected too. The build of the connection can only make a difference if they use low quality attachment points from cable to connector. Such as really cheap solder, lead solder that has very low amount of tin in it. Of course now we get into gold on the connectors. I borrowed the following from Wikipedia.

Electronics

Gold plating is often used in electronics, to provide a corrosion-resistant electrically conductive layer on copper, typically in electrical connectors and printed circuit boards.

With direct gold-on-copper plating, the copper atoms tend to diffuse through the gold layer, causing tarnishing of its surface and formation of an oxide and/or sulfide layer.

A layer of a suitable barrier metal, usually nickel, is usually deposited on the copper substrate before the gold plating. The layer of nickel provides mechanical backing for the gold layer, improving its wear resistance. It also reduces the impact of pores present in the gold layer.

Both the nickel and gold layers are usually deposited by electroplating. Electroless plating is used as well, however the deposited layer is unsuitable for long-term corrosion protection nor for wire bonding, as the resulting layer is typically only 97% pure and thin (0.5-0.75 µm). As the deposit is based on displacement of some of the copper, electroless nickel plating may be unsuitable for boards with very fine traces.

At higher frequencies, the skin effect may cause higher losses due to higher electrical resistance of nickel; a nickel-plated trace can have its useful length shortened three times in the 1 GHz band in comparison with the non-plated one. Selective plating is used, depositing the nickel and gold layers only on areas where it is required and does not cause the detrimental side effects.

Gold plating may lead to formation of gold whiskers.

Soldering issues

Soldering gold-plated parts can be tricky.

Gold is soluble in solder. Solder which contains more than 5% gold can become brittle. The joint surface is dull-looking.

Gold reacts with both tin and lead in their liquid state, forming brittle intermetallics. When eutectic 63% Sn - 37% Pb solder is used, no lead-gold compounds are formed, because gold preferentially reacts with tin, forming the AuSn4 compound. Particles of AuSn4 disperse in the solder matrix, forming preferential cleavage planes, significantly lowering the mechanical strength and therefore reliability of the resulting solder joints.

If the gold layer does not completely dissolve into the solder, then slow intermetallic reactions can proceed in the solid state as the tin and gold atoms cross-migrate. Intermetallics have poor electrical conductivity and low strength. The ongoing intermetallic reactions also cause Kirkendall voiding, leading to mechanical failure of the joint, similar to the degradation of gold-aluminum bonds known as purple plague.

A 2-3 µm layer of gold dissolves completely within one second during typical wave soldering conditions. Layers of gold thinner than 0.5 µm (20 microinches) also dissolve completely into the solder, exposing the underlying metal (usually nickel) to the solder. Impurities in the nickel layer can prevent the solder from bonding to it. Electroless nickel plating contains phosphorus. Nickel with more than 8% phosphorus is not solderable. Electrodeposited nickel may contain nickel hydroxide. An acid bath is required to remove the passivation layer before applying the gold layer; improper cleaning leads to a nickel surface difficult to solder. A stronger flux can help, as it aids dissolving the oxide deposits. Carbon is another nickel contaminant that hinders solderability

I hope this helps to enlighten the subject of cabling. If you can afford Monster and think it is worth 300% more then buy it , use it & be happy. If you are like most people go with work is working well at the lower price.

And you think the cheap China cables can get that process right? You just laid out lots of the intricacies of the various metals and their relationships in the cable and connector manufacturing process. You might disregard air gaps, slag metals and such, but you do present probably an even more persuasive argument on why cable can differ so much in quality. There are companies out there trying to make the cheapest cable possible and so they aren't going to be giving as much attention to the details above.

I still have yet to see why Monoprice cables aren't certified by HDMI Licensing. If they perform just as well, should be no problem getting it. Even as a consumer, I look for independent certification of just about any product I buy. Think of it as looking for a "wet seal".

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meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 10:53 PM · posted in The Sports Section

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.

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rvvaquero

Tuesday at 11:33 AM

Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had an argument about who was responsible for the dynasty building of the early 90's Cowboys.

The rest of us figured it out in about 3 years, Jerry has had over 30 years but still can't admit it. It's all he lives for, to show everyone he can put together a winner. I don't think he can. His kids only know what he taught them.

Reactions: Mike0616, dfergie and b4pjoe

HipKat

Wednesday at 8:10 PM

Week Six Balls and Goats and WTH is Going On in The NFL??

Browns. 1st place in the North. Yup. Believe it or not

Chiefs. Undefeated.

Titans. Won a game ! .... Colts I know, but still.

Saints. Won a game after a while.

Steelers. Having the same season they always have. They somehow find wins on their way to an unceremonial 1st round exit. Mike Tomlin is proud.

Cards. Won a game without scoring a single touchdown

Broncos. How they manage to win games with the dogshit offense they have should be studied.

Bears. Caleb's back and so is their mojo.

Goats

NFC East. For the 2nd straight week no team from this clown show of a division won a game. Eagles are cooked without Hurts. Who's not that good anyway. Commanders suck, Dallas is well ..... Dallas and the Giants have no QB.

Ravens. Lamar is out (as usual). But still. Losing to the Browns is never ok.

Chargers. Still can't win.

Rams. So much for the powerhouse team. They are 2 games under .500

Seattle. Lost to the offenseless Broncos.

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Yespage

Yesterday at 9:15 AM

rvvaquero said:
Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had an argument about who was responsible for the dynasty building of the early 90's Cowboys.

The rest of us figured it out in about 3 years, Jerry has had over 30 years but still can't admit it. It's all he lives for, to show everyone he can put together a winner. I don't think he can. His kids only know what he taught them.

Johnson built it, but without the Herschel Walker trade, it never happens.

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b4pjoe

Yesterday at 9:53 AM

Yespage said:
Johnson built it, but without the Herschel Walker trade, it never happens.

Jerry made himself General Manager after he bought the team but make no mistake Jimmy engineered that trade. As well as a lot of others at the time.

Reactions: rvvaquero, osu1991 and Yespage

rvvaquero

Yesterday at 11:50 AM

Jimmy Johnson is a football guy. Jerry Jones is a marketer (hustler).

When I see a football player get a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct (like taunting) in a close game, I often wonder what he was thinking. Was he thinking, I'm doing everything I can to make this a better team and help win a championship? Or, was he saying to himself, I want everyone to notice how great I am?

Johnson inspires one, Jones the other.

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meStevo

Yesterday at 10:53 PM

View: https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/2113438192913588676?s=20

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SatZach

Yesterday at 10:46 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Hello again

I haven't posted in almost 17 years. Over the air, sat, offline, anything-but-the-internet is still one of my avid pursuits. Been playing with offline tv viewing and offline web browsing. I have great appreciations for this site still being here. It's so hard to find public communities that haven't sold out to social media company.

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SkyWatcher57

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 10:25 PM · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion

KOQIT receivers

Hello folks, well my luck ran out last week with a nasty thunderstorm and after 39 years here, finally took a hit. Now, the FTA receivers I had for some years worked great until now. Recently picked up a fairly cheap receiver, online, KOQIT and seems to be good, but for the life of me, I cannot get the HDMI output to work with 3 of my Samsung monitors. I can hook it up to my Samsung TV and its HDMI input and it works fine. The 2 receivers I lost also worked fine with them, so am I going crazy? anyone have come across this or have any suggestions? And, since this is a somewhat cheap unit but works, what is everyone out there using for receivers these days? without breaking the bank? I enjoy watching FTA TV, so I will invest more if needed, what is a really good, detailed unit these days. I'm so use to watching a few of them HD channels. Right now I'm down to composite hookups, yuck! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Frank

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(((Garyd)))

Sep 7, 2026

SkyWatcher57 said:
Hello folks, well my luck ran out last week with a nasty thunderstorm and after 39 years here, finally took a hit. Now, the FTA receivers I had for some years worked great until now. Recently picked up a fairly cheap receiver, online, KOQIT and seems to be good, but for the life of me, I cannot get the HDMI output to work with 3 of my Samsung monitors. I can hook it up to my Samsung TV and its HDMI input and it works fine. The 2 receivers I lost also worked fine with them, so am I going crazy? anyone have come across this or have any suggestions? And, since this is a somewhat cheap unit but works, what is everyone out there using for receivers these days? without breaking the bank? I enjoy watching FTA TV, so I will invest more if needed, what is a really good, detailed unit these days. I'm so use to watching a few of them HD channels. Right now I'm down to composite hookups, yuck! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Frank

Take the cover off, show me pics of the board of the bad one and also the bottom of the board. I'm an old hardware electronics tech plus a satellite dealer; I fixed a lot of FTA and regular receivers. I may be able to fix it for you. And yes, they got hit by lightning; it's best to email me the pics at diamondsatellite@snet.net or call me at 203-232-8888. I give you a 50-50 chance of fixing it; I do have spare parts. my phone is a fliptop phone
Gary

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navychop

Sep 10, 2026

More room for the return of the Plague & Pestilence?

slow_poke_pete

Sep 10, 2026

SkyWatcher57 said:
Hello folks, well my luck ran out last week with a nasty thunderstorm and after 39 years here, finally took a hit. Now, the FTA receivers I had for some years worked great until now. Recently picked up a fairly cheap receiver, online, KOQIT and seems to be good, but for the life of me, I cannot get the HDMI output to work with 3 of my Samsung monitors. I can hook it up to my Samsung TV and its HDMI input and it works fine. The 2 receivers I lost also worked fine with them, so am I going crazy? anyone have come across this or have any suggestions? And, since this is a somewhat cheap unit but works, what is everyone out there using for receivers these days? without breaking the bank? I enjoy watching FTA TV, so I will invest more if needed, what is a really good, detailed unit these days. I'm so use to watching a few of them HD channels. Right now I'm down to composite hookups, yuck! Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Frank

a good surge protector will help to.

Reactions: SkyWatcher57

SkyWatcher57

Sep 11, 2026

(((Garyd))) said:
Take the cover off, show me pics of the board of the bad one and also the bottom of the board. I'm an old hardware electronics tech plus a satellite dealer; I fixed a lot of FTA and regular receivers. I may be able to fix it for you. And yes, they got hit by lightning; it's best to email me the pics at diamondsatellite@snet.net or call me at 203-232-8888. I give you a 50-50 chance of fixing it; I do have spare parts. my phone is a fliptop phone
Gary

Hi Gary, still working on getting you those

SkyWatcher57 said:
Hi Gary, just saw this, ok, I'll grab some pics tomorrow and post them. thx

Still working getting you those pictures, nice weekends means yard work and fall prep, thanks

Reactions: (((Garyd)))

k4otl

Yesterday at 10:09 PM

Anybody know how to add "hidden" audio channels like for 101 W Ku or 105W C band on these recvr's? I've exported the database file but don't have anything that will read or edit it.

cyberham

Yesterday at 10:25 PM

For 105W C, you scan in the Westwood tp normally. Then select the audio channel you want. Not necessary to manually enter. On 101W, you must manually enter.

View all replies (46)

Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Yesterday at 10:13 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 8:02 PM

One Way Street - Streets

RaiderPower

Yesterday at 8:04 PM

Working My Way Back To You - The Spinners

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long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 8:45 PM

Find A Way To My Heart - Phil Collins

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 9:32 PM

Heart of Glass - Blondie

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long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 10:13 PM

Magazine - Heart

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TRG

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 10:06 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Prescription drug costs

Now that I'm retired, obviously I have different health care insurance. I take 2 prescriptions. With my old insurance I didn't have to pay for either of them, now I do. It's not a huge amount but it led me to dig a little into the cost of prescription medications. I have been using Walgreens for the longest time. But what I found was that Walgreens price is 4.8 times more for one of my prescriptions and the other is 2.3 percent more compared to the lowest price pharmacy. If you pay for prescription medications you might want to have a look at trumprx and see if you can get a lower price.

https://trumprx.gov/

Screenshot from 2026-10-22 15-43-53.webp

Screenshot from 2026-10-22 15-23-34.webp

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comfortably_numb

Yesterday at 6:09 PM

I run them through several different providers to see who has the lowest cost

Usually it's Walmart or Sam's + GoodRx

Also...

Homepage of Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drugs

Mark Cuban Cost Plus Drug homepage. Provides safe, affordable medicine or medication with transparent low prices.

www.costplusdrugs.com

You can also price them through the CareCard and WellRx apps.

Sometimes Amazon Pharmacy is cheapest.

Reactions: TRG

telstar_1

Yesterday at 7:48 PM

TrumpRx?!?

I went on Medicare recently (not an "advantage" plan) and my prescriptions at HyVee were very low out of pocket. The clerk said she was putting them on "Good Rx".

osu1991

Yesterday at 8:12 PM

I take 10mg Rosuvastatin (Crestor). I was paying $34 for a 90day supply at Walgreens last year when I was on Blue Cross. My Blue Cross premiums were going up to $1800 a month this year, so I switched to an Ambetter Bronze plan (I think that's a Cigna company) for $825 a month. I now have a $40 copay for doctors visits which is fine as I usually only see them once or twice a year, so a huge cost savings. My Rosuvastatin was going to go up to around $90 for a 90 day supply at Walgreens and even more at CVS or one of the local family pharmacies. Ordering online thru my insurance portal from Express Scripts it's $0.74 for a 90 day supply.

Reactions: TRG, Mr Tony and Jimbo

comfortably_numb

Yesterday at 8:18 PM

telstar_1 said:
TrumpRx?!?

Scripts arrive in a gold paper sack.

Reactions: Yespage and meStevo

dishstaller

Yesterday at 9:39 PM

comfortably_numb said:
Usually it's Walmart or Sam's + GoodRx

I'm fortunate and don't take any medications. A couple years ago I had to take some antibiotics and used the GoodRx app. Went to Walmart and the person behind the desk knew me and told me to just buy them outright....the GoodRx price was a LOT higher. She said they aren't supposed to tell customers when they see they are being screwed.

Reactions: navychop

navychop

Yesterday at 9:49 PM

That's ok. I probably take enough for the two of us.

God knows what Bobby takes. Maybe so much they count as a meal?

Reactions: AZ.

Bobby

Yesterday at 10:06 PM

navychop said:
That's ok. I probably take enough for the two of us.

God knows what Bobby takes. Maybe so much they count as a meal?

Actually I take just 2 prescriptions, Atorvastatin and Lisinopril. They cost me $6 each for 100 pills. Next year that will be nothing.

Reactions: AZ. and TRG

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Bruce

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 9:34 PM · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

How things have changed

I was reading this article

Cable TV ‘cord-cutters’ became the majority in 2022

The steady decline of cable and broadcast television, and the rise of streaming services, reached a sort of inflection point over the past year. Last summer, for the first time, streaming ser…

thehill.com

That said this-
Last summer, for the first time, streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime claimed the largest share of the television viewing audience, surpassing both cable and broadcast TV. Streaming captured 34.8 percent of July viewers, according to Nielsen data, compared to 34.4 percent for cable and 21.6 percent for broadcast.

And then, sometime in the second half of 2022, cord-cutters became the majority. The share of cable and satellite television subscribers dipped to 48 percent, according to a report from Samba TV, a television technology company.

Now I do not consider those with YTTV and the likes, Cord Cutters, but they still do not have Traditional Cable/Satellite delivered Live TV, so I decided to do the math.

There are, now, 129 Million Households in the United States.

In 2015, there were 100 Million Cable/Sat Subscribers , no streaming Live TV Service.

Today, there are 66 Million Live TV subscribers, including Cable, Satellite and Streaming.

Roughly, Streaming Live TV has 14 Million subs including all of them.

So that means, Cable/Satellite now has, roughly, 51 Million Households

So in just 8 years, lost 49% of their subscribers and by the end of this year, expected sub count to be, roughly, 45 million households.

That means a total loss of 55% since 2015 at the end of 2023.

But out of 129 Million households, 45 million will mean only 35% will get Cable/Satellite Delivered Live TV by the end of 2023.

Imagine what 2024 will be like.

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Bruce

Yesterday at 12:11 PM

Sony is discontinuing it's last 4K disc player, Panasonic has been rumored to be doing the same, the end of physical media is unfortunately, about to happen.

Bad News For Blu-ray Fans: Sony Has Stopped Making a Popular Player | Cord Cutters News

Sony has discontinued its final standalone UHD Blu-ray player, the UBP-X700/K, ending shipments of the device with no successor model announced. The move, first spotted by Japanese website Kunkoku.jp and confirmed through the status of the product on Sony’s own website, marks the company’s...

cordcuttersnews.com

Reactions: Foxbat, ncted and navychop

dishstaller

Yesterday at 2:54 PM

Bruce said:
Sony is discontinuing it's last 4K disc player, Panasonic has been rumored to be doing the same, the end of physical media is unfortunately, about to happen.

Hate to hear that. If you don't physically have something in your hand, you don't really own it.

Reactions: navychop

Bruce

Yesterday at 4:29 PM

dishstaller said:
Hate to hear that. If you don't physically have something in your hand, you don't really own it.

Even a physical disc purchase is considered a license, just extremely harder to pull access vs digital.

But once new players are no longer sold and older players quit working, that takes care of the access to your library.

See LaserDiscs for one example of that happening.

ncted

Yesterday at 4:42 PM

Bruce said:
Sony is discontinuing it's last 4K disc player, Panasonic has been rumored to be doing the same, the end of physical media is unfortunately, about to happen.

Bad News For Blu-ray Fans: Sony Has Stopped Making a Popular Player | Cord Cutters News

Sony has discontinued its final standalone UHD Blu-ray player, the UBP-X700/K, ending shipments of the device with no successor model announced. The move, first spotted by Japanese website Kunkoku.jp and confirmed through the status of the product on Sony’s own website, marks the company’s...

cordcuttersnews.com

I am so done with Sony on so many levels. This is just one small piece of it.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 8:50 PM

ncted said:
I am so done with Sony on so many levels. This is just one small piece of it.

I Love my Sony equipment

dishstaller

Yesterday at 9:27 PM

Bruce said:
just extremely harder to pull access vs digital.

And dangerous if you get my drift.

navychop

Yesterday at 9:34 PM

Jimbo said:
I Love my Sony equipment

That's an odd name for it.

Reactions: Jimbo

View all replies (881)

SuperDish_Fan23

Last reply Yesterday at 9:21 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Its crazy how the ViP922 is so rare for no reason.

Why are ViP922s So rare? like its crazy how ebay has none, i checked everywhere, also, i got a ViP222k now, which is actually activated!

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Strega

Wednesday at 2:34 PM

That's not really unusual. Cable companies like to the provide the box too. The phone company provided the phones in until the government forced them to allow third-party phones.

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Almighty1

Wednesday at 7:02 PM

Strega said:
That's not really unusual. Cable companies like to the provide the box too. The phone company provided the phones in until the government forced them to allow third-party phones.

Yes, the Western Electric phones that says "Bell System Property, NOT FOR SALE, Western Electric".

Reactions: MikeD-C05, AZ., Bobby and 1 other person

AZ.

Wednesday at 9:10 PM

Almighty1 said:
Yes, the Western Electric phones that says "Bell System Property, NOT FOR SALE, Western Electric".

someone is showing their age

Reactions: MikeD-C05, slow_poke_pete, Almighty1 and 1 other person

Almighty1

Wednesday at 9:38 PM

AZ. said:
someone is showing their age

LOL. It depends if the person saw it during the years when they were actually still available which is 1968 to 1983 meaning the person could be 43-58 years old or they can even be a few years old if they learned to read and write at a young age and actually saw a telephone with that label somewhere recently just like even here in San Francisco, payphone still exist physically in public places but whether they can be used or not is a different issue. It still looks like this even today:

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 1:39 PM

Almighty1 said:
LOL. It depends if the person saw it during the years when they were actually still available which is 1968 to 1983 meaning the person could be 43-58 years old or they can even be a few years old if they learned to read and write at a young age and actually saw a telephone with that label somewhere recently just like even here in San Francisco, payphone still exist physically in public places but whether they can be used or not is a different issue. It still looks like this even today:
View attachment 194957

so that persons in hiding lol :biggrin

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 1:41 PM

remembers when ATT had stores and leased home phones

Reactions: AZ. and charlesrshell

dishstaller

Yesterday at 3:14 PM

My Wife was recently in an antique store and saw a rotary desk phone and it had one of those sticker overlays that had a business listed with phone number under each number on the dial. She looked closer and it had my old Radio Shack listed under the 8...she bought it. Pretty cool keepsake. Back then I rented vhs movies as well so I had it listed as Radio Shack / Movie Gallery and then the phone number.

Reactions: Foxbat, Almighty1, navychop and 1 other person

Almighty1

Yesterday at 8:53 PM

I remember this in the news too...

$14,000 spent on rented rotary phone

A widow rented a rotary dial telephone for 42 years, paying what her family calculates as more than $14,000 for a now- outdated phone.

www.nbcnews.com

Reactions: charlesrshell

Bobby

Yesterday at 9:21 PM

Almighty1 said:
I remember this in the news too...

$14,000 spent on rented rotary phone

A widow rented a rotary dial telephone for 42 years, paying what her family calculates as more than $14,000 for a now- outdated phone.

www.nbcnews.com

That is a misnomer. In the old days you subscribed to telephone service. That included the telephone line and one telephone. An extension cost $1 a month extra. So that $14,000 over 42 years was for the service not the leased telephone. There is no way they paid $28 a month for 42 years for a leased telephone.

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TvMind

Last reply Yesterday at 9:13 PM · posted in C-BAND Satellite Discussion

SES 1 101° W Horizontal "Issues" a.k.a "I want my M(e)TV"

Howdy folks long time no write.

Issue(s): Horizontal transponders (esp. Weigel mux) breakup/mosaic/sputtering audio, JTV less so (but received perfectly up until a month or so ago.
Vertical is fine (Daystar). Up until recently couldn't even get any signal on Weigel Mux but JTV was perfect.

What I did to improve things: A slight westward move improved reception but only slightly (approx 72 on the micro HD, sorry no dB to post). I removed the 3-way C-Band splitter and used a 2-way to get a 1-2 db signal gain ( the power port goes to the Startrak - the micro HD doesn't have enough juice ! (1st clue) even after swapping the switching power supply it came with with a heftier linear 12 V supply (less RFI too !).
I have had issues with the uHD before signal breaking up that a reboot would clear up (clue #2 = dying tuner?) - FYI, I reinforced the IF input and removed all flux from the pcb completely with a Flux Removal Pen (MG Chemicals Cat No. 4140-P) which definitely makes a huge difference.

I went outside and pushed and pulled reflector slightly and no improvement. Pole (actually tower in yard - the neighbours love me..NOT) is plumb, checked with carpenters level. Dish was last peaked in 2017 or so, after overhauling 24" Von Weise, new Acme, fresh grease, etc. Focal length, f/d ratio etc meticulously adjusted. One panel has a tear so planning to repair that this weekend when my cousin comes over ( to help me out (old guy here) forecast calls for sunshine.

What has changed: My utility company has installed new high tension line poles (one smack dab in the middle of 101°W target! But they put it in last year and reception (of JTV (HOR) at least) was fine, BUT when they came out to transfer the wires over this year from the old (sawed in half) pole that's about when the troubles started (coincidence?), but again Daystar (VER) was fine. I always had this pole in the light of sight of 101° before with no issues. (fyi my zenith sat 74° is unobstucted, but can't test)

In the meantime Weigel mux is trying to break in MOSTLY in LATE at night (less cell usage?) (audio not video except for a frame here or there) so don't know what has changed with this mux which suddenly "woke up". I have never had to fuss with dish moves on this satellite ( the slightest move +/- motor clicks loses lock, wheres normally on C-band I can go significantly wider east or west and still have a strong signal ( have these gone "spot beam" or narrower somehow and what is the slight difference in Az listed on Lyngsat to 100.9° affect things ( isn't that the declination i.e. requiring a tweak of declination?).

Long story short (too late, ha), if I had another DVB-S2 box to try and / or a newer more stable PLL lnb ( I have been meaning to upgrade many a time but never got arround to it) I could determine if it's my antiquated receiving equipment, or my dish/feed alignment ( doubtful as it tracks everything from 55 °W to 133 ° W nicely.) or the dreaded 5G! (BUT only on HOR and not VER?).
I read another post where the OP (with his smaller 7.5 footer) played around with the illumination to peak desired transponder and reduce qrm on interfering/ stronger xpndrs (even on 103° W). So will play with that too - and cut away the RG-6 a and pull up a fresh section with new PPC and coax Seal. Open the throat cap see if any cobwebs are there and check servo operation (also changed in last maintence 10 years ago).

Finally, this will probably be the last chance I get to play with the BUD from the looks of it (providers leaving, auctioning off rest of spectrum imminent above 4.0 Ghz, and to keep the peace with neighbours so it would be nice to have that mux back for the long, cold and dark winters to comfort this old man before I call it quits and buy a VHF/UHF/FM Yagi and get MeTV, H&I from my Vermont local stations (checked at a friends today and they come in nicely - except ABC) .
Only one guy in town (Montreal) I may be able to get a receiver or PLL lnb from to try (RPS Sat) so hopefully with elimnate that as a possible culprit. Be nice to pick up a cheap or used PLL lnb to try w/o 5G BPF (money is tight )

Like others I couldn't care less about "tv" (well maybe just a liitle or a lot) it's the challenge that excites me , I can get MeTV other ways OTA (no pirate crap).

So what do you guys (and gals) think ?. p.s. I don't have a spectrum analyzer and there are def/ cell towers nearby (half a Km or so away).
Oh and time permitting will hammer out dings too and wire damaged mesh on one section for an extra dB or two. Hesitate to touch Declination, Elevation and pole mount but will play around with those a little too... Why is this mux for finicky suddenly ?(8psk, 5/6 fec, beamwidthetc.. man wish they went back to VER I think everthing would be fine! For the engineers out here does 5G QRM affect one poliarization (HOR) more than another (VER)? I understand the strong interference swamps out the input mixer/local oscilator in the hapless old C-band lnb (I think it at time affect KU too esp. LPB on 101°W KU - incidentally thos were weak or "gone' but are back almost at the time MeTV improved..hmm Terrestrial interference?

Any thoughts or suggestions ( cheap or free solutions please) greatly appreciated. Cheers.

p.p.s. Micro HD can't display Decades and Toons but records them fine so I can watch on another box/media player (Ali chip set issue). Another reason to upgrade.

Anybody interested in a nice C/KU system free ? (for next Spring/Summer 2027)

[Sami 10' mesh, Corotor II+, Eagle Aspen (very old) C-band lnb, Norsat Ku lnb, Channel Master C/Ku (H/V) switch, Startrak 400 Analog receiver w/ motor control, Geosat uHD DVD-S2, CW600S for Mpeg-2]

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Titanium

Oct 14, 2026

Our LNBFs are integrated with the feedhorn and no KU option. Maybe install an inline waveguide BPF such as:

www.ebay.com/itm/158077455896
www.ebay.com/itm/960059145385
www.ebay.com/itm/158007483799

brownsfan1

Monday at 9:22 PM

TvMind said:
Howdy folks long time no write.

Issue(s): Horizontal transponders (esp. Weigel mux) breakup/mosaic/sputtering audio, JTV less so (but received perfectly up until a month or so ago.
Vertical is fine (Daystar). Up until recently couldn't even get any signal on Weigel Mux but JTV was perfect.

What I did to improve things: A slight westward move improved reception but only slightly (approx 72 on the micro HD, sorry no dB to post). I removed the 3-way C-Band splitter and used a 2-way to get a 1-2 db signal gain ( the power port goes to the Startrak - the micro HD doesn't have enough juice ! (1st clue) even after swapping the switching power supply it came with with a heftier linear 12 V supply (less RFI too !).
I have had issues with the uHD before signal breaking up that a reboot would clear up (clue #2 = dying tuner?) - FYI, I reinforced the IF input and removed all flux from the pcb completely with a Flux Removal Pen (MG Chemicals Cat No. 4140-P) which definitely makes a huge difference.

I went outside and pushed and pulled reflector slightly and no improvement. Pole (actually tower in yard - the neighbours love me..NOT) is plumb, checked with carpenters level. Dish was last peaked in 2017 or so, after overhauling 24" Von Weise, new Acme, fresh grease, etc. Focal length, f/d ratio etc meticulously adjusted. One panel has a tear so planning to repair that this weekend when my cousin comes over ( to help me out (old guy here) forecast calls for sunshine.

What has changed: My utility company has installed new high tension line poles (one smack dab in the middle of 101°W target! But they put it in last year and reception (of JTV (HOR) at least) was fine, BUT when they came out to transfer the wires over this year from the old (sawed in half) pole that's about when the troubles started (coincidence?), but again Daystar (VER) was fine. I always had this pole in the light of sight of 101° before with no issues. (fyi my zenith sat 74° is unobstucted, but can't test)

In the meantime Weigel mux is trying to break in MOSTLY in LATE at night (less cell usage?) (audio not video except for a frame here or there) so don't know what has changed with this mux which suddenly "woke up". I have never had to fuss with dish moves on this satellite ( the slightest move +/- motor clicks loses lock, wheres normally on C-band I can go significantly wider east or west and still have a strong signal ( have these gone "spot beam" or narrower somehow and what is the slight difference in Az listed on Lyngsat to 100.9° affect things ( isn't that the declination i.e. requiring a tweak of declination?).

Long story short (too late, ha), if I had another DVB-S2 box to try and / or a newer more stable PLL lnb ( I have been meaning to upgrade many a time but never got arround to it) I could determine if it's my antiquated receiving equipment, or my dish/feed alignment ( doubtful as it tracks everything from 55 °W to 133 ° W nicely.) or the dreaded 5G! (BUT only on HOR and not VER?).
I read another post where the OP (with his smaller 7.5 footer) played around with the illumination to peak desired transponder and reduce qrm on interfering/ stronger xpndrs (even on 103° W). So will play with that too - and cut away the RG-6 a and pull up a fresh section with new PPC and coax Seal. Open the throat cap see if any cobwebs are there and check servo operation (also changed in last maintence 10 years ago).

Finally, this will probably be the last chance I get to play with the BUD from the looks of it (providers leaving, auctioning off rest of spectrum imminent above 4.0 Ghz, and to keep the peace with neighbours so it would be nice to have that mux back for the long, cold and dark winters to comfort this old man before I call it quits and buy a VHF/UHF/FM Yagi and get MeTV, H&I from my Vermont local stations (checked at a friends today and they come in nicely - except ABC) .
Only one guy in town (Montreal) I may be able to get a receiver or PLL lnb from to try (RPS Sat) so hopefully with elimnate that as a possible culprit. Be nice to pick up a cheap or used PLL lnb to try w/o 5G BPF (money is tight )

Like others I couldn't care less about "tv" (well maybe just a liitle or a lot) it's the challenge that excites me , I can get MeTV other ways OTA (no pirate crap).

So what do you guys (and gals) think ?. p.s. I don't have a spectrum analyzer and there are def/ cell towers nearby (half a Km or so away).
Oh and time permitting will hammer out dings too and wire damaged mesh on one section for an extra dB or two. Hesitate to touch Declination, Elevation and pole mount but will play around with those a little too... Why is this mux for finicky suddenly ?(8psk, 5/6 fec, beamwidthetc.. man wish they went back to VER I think everthing would be fine! For the engineers out here does 5G QRM affect one poliarization (HOR) more than another (VER)? I understand the strong interference swamps out the input mixer/local oscilator in the hapless old C-band lnb (I think it at time affect KU too esp. LPB on 101°W KU - incidentally thos were weak or "gone' but are back almost at the time MeTV improved..hmm Terrestrial interference?

Any thoughts or suggestions ( cheap or free solutions please) greatly appreciated. Cheers.

p.p.s. Micro HD can't display Decades and Toons but records them fine so I can watch on another box/media player (Ali chip set issue). Another reason to upgrade.

Anybody interested in a nice C/KU system free ? (for next Spring/Summer 2027)

[Sami 10' mesh, Corotor II+, Eagle Aspen (very old) C-band lnb, Norsat Ku lnb, Channel Master C/Ku (H/V) switch, Startrak 400 Analog receiver w/ motor control, Geosat uHD DVD-S2, CW600S for Mpeg-2]

I had the EXACT same problem happen to me with 101w, MeTV mux (Weigel). Working great when about 3 weeks ago I started to get the pixelating, especially at night. Sometimes Jewelry TV would also do it, sometimes not. Tweaked my dish. I have a Titanium 240 feed with the 5G filter 4.0-4.2 band pass. Every other satellite is working fine. Something on their end for sure. Power reduction? My signal seems fine like always. Running a Winegard 8.5 ft dish using a GT Media UHD V8. I'm sure my receiver isn't maybe sensitive enough for lower signal levels. Frustrating here too. I'm in the Canton, Ohio area. Thanks!

arlo

Tuesday at 10:22 AM

To me it looks like all of the intelligent things to diagnose the problem 'on the cheap' are being done.
I have my own thoughts of lnbf's using an external filter between the feed and coax. It would be cool to see what Brian could add.
Do his units have the filter before the actual LNA chip in the circuit? In other words, signal is focused at the lnbf throat. The probes for h & v polarity send the signal to.......filtering......then to the lna IC......
Or probes, lna, then filtering. Makes sense to trap the bad stuff before amplification to me.

On the cheap sometimes leaves questions. Enosat and El Bandido both use dvb-s pci cards and TBS USB receivers.
With those, and software. Signal analysis becomes sort of easy. Or tapping into your coax with a dc pass splitter, decoupling capacitor, and using a spectrum analyzer. Tuning across the LO band. Finding signal spikes. Digging deep.

Still making my decision on a (most probably) TBS PCIe tuner card. But I have tapped into my coax with my ancient but quite impressive HP spectrum analyzer and tinysa.
I don't have 5G interference so far that I know of. But have my suspects because I'm only able to snag signal from 131W in the winter when the leaves drop. But out of curiosity do scan it in the fall. And seem to be getting a signal that 'shouldn't' be there and a scan shows no channels. Far as I got.

An idea pops up to rig up an LNBF on a stick. Along with the tinysa and power supply and do some rogue signal searches. War Driving, of sorts. But. I wouldn't think that a chinabox, firmware based receiver would be of much help.
From what I see scanning across the frequency band. 5G cell transmission is always on and is very wide spectrum.
Whether anyone is actually using talking, texting, watching stupid human tricks on YouTube Makes no difference. The RF is there. So why would a C Band setup come and go? And what if you dumped the corotor and went modern voltage controlled polarity?

Another thought. Since you've learned the optimal position to place the scalar to illuminate out to the dish rim. And peaked the feed. There's most of a roll of aluminum flashing out in my garage that would most definitely wrap around my dish perimeter. That and a bag of large binder clips from the office supply. wally world. Ideas?

brownsfan1

Yesterday at 8:23 PM

arlo said:
To me it looks like all of the intelligent things to diagnose the problem 'on the cheap' are being done.
I have my own thoughts of lnbf's using an external filter between the feed and coax. It would be cool to see what Brian could add.
Do his units have the filter before the actual LNA chip in the circuit? In other words, signal is focused at the lnbf throat. The probes for h & v polarity send the signal to.......filtering......then to the lna IC......
Or probes, lna, then filtering. Makes sense to trap the bad stuff before amplification to me.

On the cheap sometimes leaves questions. Enosat and El Bandido both use dvb-s pci cards and TBS USB receivers.
With those, and software. Signal analysis becomes sort of easy. Or tapping into your coax with a dc pass splitter, decoupling capacitor, and using a spectrum analyzer. Tuning across the LO band. Finding signal spikes. Digging deep.

Still making my decision on a (most probably) TBS PCIe tuner card. But I have tapped into my coax with my ancient but quite impressive HP spectrum analyzer and tinysa.
I don't have 5G interference so far that I know of. But have my suspects because I'm only able to snag signal from 131W in the winter when the leaves drop. But out of curiosity do scan it in the fall. And seem to be getting a signal that 'shouldn't' be there and a scan shows no channels. Far as I got.

An idea pops up to rig up an LNBF on a stick. Along with the tinysa and power supply and do some rogue signal searches. War Driving, of sorts. But. I wouldn't think that a chinabox, firmware based receiver would be of much help.
From what I see scanning across the frequency band. 5G cell transmission is always on and is very wide spectrum.
Whether anyone is actually using talking, texting, watching stupid human tricks on YouTube Makes no difference. The RF is there. So why would a C Band setup come and go? And what if you dumped the corotor and went modern voltage controlled polarity?

Another thought. Since you've learned the optimal position to place the scalar to illuminate out to the dish rim. And peaked the feed. There's most of a roll of aluminum flashing out in my garage that would most definitely wrap around my dish perimeter. That and a bag of large binder clips from the office supply. wally world. Ideas?

I did some more investigating and found I got the MeTV mux in the early hours, until about 6am then the pixelating starts. Gets worse until around 8am its totally gone. I suspect my local cell tower is ramping up traffic as the morning goes on. My Titanium feed does a super job and most everything is clear that wasn't before but this mux is aggravating! I seem to just be over the signal threshold to work until the 5G total overwhelms my system. I'm using an old 9 foot spun aluminum dish and was wondering if I went to a 12 ft dish this would solve the problem? I know bigger is better in most satellite dish related signal problems. If this is true I will be searching for a bigger dish. I like your idea of flashing put around the dish perimeter. I have some I need to dig out and try before I start ripping out my dish. Anybody have any ideas if the bigger dish would do better? Any help would be appreciated!

SDA_FL_USA

Yesterday at 9:13 PM

brownsfan1 said:
I did some more investigating and found I got the MeTV mux in the early hours, until about 6am then the pixelating starts. Gets worse until around 8am its totally gone. I suspect my local cell tower is ramping up traffic as the morning goes on. My Titanium feed does a super job and most everything is clear that wasn't before but this mux is aggravating! I seem to just be over the signal threshold to work until the 5G total overwhelms my system. I'm using an old 9 foot spun aluminum dish and was wondering if I went to a 12 ft dish this would solve the problem? I know bigger is better in most satellite dish related signal problems. If this is true I will be searching for a bigger dish. I like your idea of flashing put around the dish perimeter. I have some I need to dig out and try before I start ripping out my dish. Anybody have any ideas if the bigger dish would do better? Any help would be appreciated!

8 1/2 Foot mesh here with the c140 lnbf and a verizon 5g tower nearby. Got no issue with the Metv transponder. Are you sure you have the lnbf setup correct? When I set my c140 up I noticed it was about 1/4 to 1/2 inch pushed in closer to the dish, sticking out of the scaler ring than my old lnbf was. Thought I may have trouble with that but my signal readings are higher than they had ever been.

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Former member 209992

Last reply Yesterday at 8:44 PM · posted in SatelliteGuys Support Center

Site is slooooow

For some reason, the satelliteguys.us site is loading a lot slower than usual on both Chrome on my Asus laptop and Safari on my iPhone.
I'm also seeing longer appearances of the blue bar at the top and the "3 blue bars" loading symbol.
Is anyone else also having the same problem? Thanks in advance.

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Scott Greczkowski

Wednesday at 11:18 AM

Just a heads up... I just patched our PHP to close the major PHP exploit announced this morning.

Now on PHP 8.4.27 (cli) (built: Oct 20 2026 00:00:00)

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harshness

Wednesday at 3:13 PM

More specifically, these:

https://www.cve.org/CVERecord?id=CVE-2026-109618

https://www.cve.org/CVERecord?id=CVE-2026-109619

A more scholarly story is here:

PHP warns admins of two critical flaws, emergency patches coming tomorrow

The PHP security team is warning administrators to prepare for emergency security updates tomorrow to address two critical vulnerabilities, as information about the flaws has reportedly leaked ahead of their scheduled disclosure.

www.bleepingcomputer.com

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navychop

Wednesday at 3:43 PM

"WARNING Will Robinson!"

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Don in CT

Yesterday at 10:19 AM

Scott Greczkowski said:
Just a heads up... I just patched our PHP to close the major PHP exploit announced this morning.

Now on PHP 8.4.27 (cli) (built: Oct 20 2026 00:00:00)

When I heard about this exploit I was wondering how quick you would be on it.

Reactions: Foxbat and charlesrshell

Scott Greczkowski

Yesterday at 4:54 PM

Don in CT said:
When I heard about this exploit I was wondering how quick you would be on it.

12 minutes after the patch was release I had it patched.

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 8:44 PM

A.I. - Be careful what you wish for…

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Lon.TV

Yesterday at 6:52 PM · posted in Lon.TV

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Time for another AWESOME video from Lon Seidman of LON.TV!

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