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L
Last reply · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion
Ok, so I'm sitting here since about 3:30pm yesterday watching tv.... for free!! I owe a lot of you some thank you's. Iceburg, Anole, Turbosat, Cadsulfide, osu1991, and anyone else I forgot. I should actually thank everyone here because I have done so much reading in the past couple weeks.

Also, a big thanks (maybe even a plug) to Bryansr. He had a coolsat 6000 in the classifieds. Talked to him on Friday and paid him Friday evening. He sent out the coolsat Saturday.

So, I spent Sunday running all the cable under my house, grounding it, and running it to my living room. All I had to do was plant a pole and tune in the Primestar dish I scored for free. (and pray it worked) I figured when I got home from working yesterday that I would go ahead and set the pole and trench the line to the house so everything would be hooked up and working. I finally found a 2 1/4 pole late Sunday evening (also for free compliments of my Father in law who does construction.)

So I get home about 1pm and am driving down my driveway and notice a box on my front porch. I wasn't even expecting the receiver to arrive until Tuesday at the earlies, Wed being more probable. Low and behold, I don't know who Bryansr knows at the post office :-).... but there was the coolsat 6000. From Georgia to Missouri, mailed Saturday and here Monday. What a surprise. So of course I got to work on that dish immediately. Dug a hole, made sure it was plumb and level, pounded that sucker in deep and concreted with about 60lbs of concrete. Trenched the line and hooked it up. Mounted the dish and went to work finding G18. Now, luckily for me I have a birddog since I do installations for a living, but I have to say that G18 was a bugger to find. I wasn't having much luck, so I decided to do it the old fashion way.... line up with compass as close as I can and see if receiver would lock and then make a billion trips in and out of the house checking for signal. I finally got a little bit of a lock. ( I say finally, it was only about 20 minutes of work) Then I hooked back up the birdog, played around carefully and found it. Once I found it I maxed it out on my meter. I came back inside, did a blind scan and the rest is history.

Of course..another plug for this site... soon to becoming will be a pub membership because I feel like such a freeloader since I have gained a ton of knowledge from this site.

Just figured I'd share a FTA success story and I owed a big thanks to everyone for being so helpful. My only complaint right now is that I'm already wanting a motor... dang I can see this hobby adding up, but so far I don't have too much money tied up. Anyone reading this thinking of getting into it, if your patient and smart you can do a good job of scrapping up what a lot of people don't want and save $$.

Motor question.... I know mounting that primestar dish to a primestar will be a bit challenging, but can be done. Will I have a problem mounting the motor to a 2 1/4 inch pole?

Also, I've got great signal strength on all G18 channels except the vetrans channel? Shows up as Channel 3-VBA 10.731H 13.240. Signal is only 63-64% and pixilated with choppy sound half the time and other time picture is better but starts to pixilate. Right now it's terrible. Just about all my other channels are coming in at 85-94%. A few jump all over from 63-87 but never break up.
And I have no sound on Retrojams 11.114V 4.340 but figure maybe that's normal or do I need to adjust something?

Once again to all, Thank You!!!!

BTW.. found posts for retrojams no sound problem, looks like I need an ac-3 receiver...dang it. Now if I only understood spanish :-)
9 Replies · 1574 views
M
congrats on getting it up and working
From Georgia to Missouri, mailed Saturday and here Monday.
I've sent a couple items out o a Saturday and they got them on Monday. I know one went to Missouri too (from Minnesota) so maybe its your post office ;)
Also, I've got great signal strength on all G18 channels except the vetrans channel? Shows up as Channel 3-VBA 10.731H 13.240. Signal is only 63-64% and pixilated with choppy sound half the time and other time picture is better but starts to pixilate.
I know that channel is low signal on my Coolsat too
osu1991
Congratulations, nothing like seeing those channels scan in the first time.
Cadsulfide
Good Work Lownote! If you do installations for a living, consider an array as an alternative to a motor. No delays. Keeps you in practice finding weaker sats, and it's like a add stuff as you find the dishes program.
Anole
Good Work Lownote! If you do installations for a living, consider an array as an alternative to a motor. No delays. Keeps you in practice finding weaker sats, and it's like a add stuff as you find the dishes program.
I do like the motor, but Cad has a good point.
Easy to add that 2nd dish, and then it's just like Oreos - you can't get enough.
But at least, our addiction is socially acceptable, cheaper, and a positive influence on your life and others. - :cool:

Anyway, for up to four and maybe eight LNBs (or dishes), there are simple switch hookups over in our FAQ department.
Don't forget multiple LNBs per dish. That's the battle cry of some guys, here!

So, the motor is not the only good solution.
L
Good Work Lownote! If you do installations for a living, consider an array as an alternative to a motor. No delays. Keeps you in practice finding weaker sats, and it's like a add stuff as you find the dishes program.

I would consider that, but.... I live in a pretty nice little cul de sac and don't think my neighbors would appreciate a dish farm. There's just 1 street coming into here with about 8 homes and unfortunately the south side of my house faces that street. I have an awesome LOS on that side of the house and could pretty much scan the entire arc. Had to move the dish out from the house about 8 feet with future thinking in mind. My house is probably 25 feet from the road on that side, so needless to say when my wife got home the other evening I got quite a ribbing about "that eyesore" in our yard. I don't think it looks bad at all, just bigger than normal dishes. Even had the nosey old neighbor lady find a reason to "walk her dog" just to see what I was doing when I was setting up the dish. Needless to say a dish farm is going to be out of the question. I really wish I lived out in the country. I'd love to try C band, but I'm sure the neighbors would revolt if I tried that here.

Anyway, the Primestar dish for sure says channel master on the back, but other than that I'm not sure about any numbers, will check later. It's the oval type with one arm, not the round one with the three arms coming out.
I did think about multiple LNB's, but that looks like a bit of mod work. Perhaps sometime, but a motor seems more suitable. Sadoun had an hh-100 that looked like it may work without a ton of modification.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68495 Replies · 2670591 views
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long_time_Dish
Beautiful Noise - Neil Diamond
sdfntx
White Noise - Jessie Baylin
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dishstaller
White Rabbit - Jefferson Airplane
long_time_Dish
White Sun - The Doobie Brothers
H
White Room-Cream
cpdretired
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Several Dish offers showed up today in my account. Once you choose one the rest are removed. Offers were Showtime, Starz, AMC and others.
32 Replies · 1559 views
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B
Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.
ewindowman
Lots of offers on the hopper account app . On the website there are only a few.
Almighty1
Lots of offers on the hopper account app . On the website there are only a few.
Never had time to use the Hopper 3 account app yet. I also have a Hopper Plus so it's not the same as the Hopper 3 standalone. Will try it when I have more time, need to beat the taxes extension filing deadline first as I am still working on entering the data into the tax software.
Almighty1
This is what I see when it comes to offers on My Account on the Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com:

AMC+ 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
AMC+ Free for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)
AMC+ 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Cine y Entretenimie 50% off for 3 months

DOGTV 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

DISH Movie Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)

DOGTV 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
DOGTV 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Gallery First Month Free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Heartland Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)

Mexico y Mas 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

MGM+ $0.00/Month not saying how long (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Multi-Sport Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Netflix Standard with Ads, $7.99/month credit toward Netflix Standard with Ads ($.99) month with 24 month DISH commitment
(Only on My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Outdoor Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Paramount+ with SHOWTIME 50% off for three months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)
Paramount+ with SHOWTIME 2 months free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Playboy TV 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Republica Dominicana 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

STARZ 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
STARZ $1.99/month for 2 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)

Sudamerica y Mas 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

UP Faith & Family 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
S
Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.
look again mine says free for 1 month
Almighty1
look again mine says free for 1 month
Not for me, mines has no mention of how long aka the offer period and the Terms and conditions the $0.00 is good for. All I see is one can lose $5.00 if you decide to remove it before day 31 after you add it to the account.

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"MysteryMan"
Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets
I created this thread on the original Edgecutter Cutting Edge Forums site. It's simply a place for those to review the latest software available for those using Windows 10 and Windows 11. To date it has received 112,559 views. I have been asked by staff to continue this thread here.
521 Replies · 47201 views
EarDemon
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.
WhiteBeard
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything. ☹️
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EarDemon
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything. ☹️
For niche use cases, yes I agree. Kali for ethical hacking and security testing, and running a Cacti server for network monitoring are the two things I have experience in. Plus thousands and thousands of other things, but for every day use I just can't see it. The owner of the GMRS repeater that I pay to access is changing the Tx DPL tones tomorrow, while Chirp is available on Linux, the software to program my MXT500 is not.

I run Fedora and Ubuntu in VMWare, honestly I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows. The cartoonish dock at the bottom of the screen reminds me of Apple products.
EarDemon
I have no OEM bloat, on CTO devices where I can access the drive, I order it with the smallest allowed drive and crack the device open throw the factory drive in the garbage and put in my own WD Black and install Windows from bootable media. For Windows bloat, I install Windows using the English - World option which limits preinstalled MS bloat.

Windows and Office features I wish to block, like CoPilot and Cortana, macro enabled Office files and others are blocked with GPOs.

Between keeping all software up to date, doing firmware updates, putting IoT devices on a separate VLAN, running Symantec Endpoint (say what you want about it, it's been good to me) and practicing safe hex, I'm vigilant but not paranoid about security.

With NVMe SSDs, my cold boot up time on all devices is under 30 secs as well. Fast boot disabled, BitLocker drive encryption enabled.

I have nothing against Linux, been paying with it on and off since 2004ish, it's just not the right solution for me.
HipKat
it's just not the right solution for me.
As I said above, and, FWIW, I run Win11 Pro and Arch on separate 250 GB NVME drives, using F8 to select which I boot to, with a 1TB SSD for storage, accessible to both OSs and a third formatted Nvme I want to use to learn Kali. It was much faster to setup Arch than it was to strip down Windows. Windows still takes much longer to boot.

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harshness
I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows.
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI? By many accounts, it has been going downhill since Windows 7.

There are Linux desktops that offer Windows or Mac UIs, yet you don't hear much chatter about them outside of questions about when the creators might get sued.
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EarDemon
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI?
Because it's what I prefer. I know I've said this a few times, I use Open Shell to give me the cascading start menu a la WIN 95 and NT4.0. The only reason I went from Windows Vista to 7 back in the day was because of Classic Shell. I cannot stand anything other than the OG start menu from 30+ years ago. I'm using ExplorerPatcher to give me Windows 10 UI elements of the taskbar and right click context menus.

If you could take a look at how I set up Windows 95, you'd find many similarities to how I use 11.
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EarDemon
I could probably use that as a starting point, but I don't like the full size icons. If you have to click on each folder that's also a no-go for me, it has to be cascading.

I used to have Peppermint Linux in a VM, that was about as close as I could get to recreating a Windows NT4.0 style of menu structure, but I could never get it to scale properly in VMWare on a 4K display and eventually gave up.

Whatever the boot up time it's fine with me. The longest part of my bootup is the HP SureStart BIOS integrity check. Once that is done, it's only a few more seconds. I haven't done this reg tweak yet since the reformat, but I switched the bootup animation to the Windows 10 style spinning circle of dots, and it's two and a half rotations. I can live with that.
harshness
Because it's what I prefer.
I hope you don't believe that makes it wonderful (especially when you're using workarounds for Microsoft's malfeasance).

I use LibreOffice as opposed to Microsoft office (even in Windows) because it's UI is like the Office of old, so I'm putting my money where my mouth is (in a manner of speaking). The ribbon was one of the worst ideas to come out Redmond.
Former member 209992
Last reply · posted in SatelliteGuys Support Center
For some reason, the satelliteguys.us site is loading a lot slower than usual on both Chrome on my Asus laptop and Safari on my iPhone.
I'm also seeing longer appearances of the blue bar at the top and the "3 blue bars" loading symbol.
Is anyone else also having the same problem? Thanks in advance.
527 Replies · 17928 views
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Scott Greczkowski
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
Foxbat
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
WTF… …What the Foxbat!😱
S
zipping right along here
S
WTF… …What the Foxbat!😱
wow what a kick in the balls!!! the wife blames you when things don't work now scott's blaming you :biggrin
Foxbat
wow what a kick in the balls!!! the wife blames you when things don't work now scott's blaming you :biggrin
I know. Here's what Scott has in store for me if I get out of line:
IMG_1990.webp
IMG_1989.webp
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jannah
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Help, I'm a little confjused on the activation process.
I purchased the Joey 4 from Solid Signal and shipping box has Call 866 726-4282 to Avtivate new Receiver. That number is Solid Signals number.
I googled and that search said call Dish to activate. I assume that is correct unless this requires a 2 step process.
Please let me know.
Thanks
6 Replies · 197 views
jannah
All good called Dish and new Joey 4 is activated and working.
Old Joey 2 deactivated and no need to return. 🙂
S
All good called Dish and new Joey 4 is activated and working.
Old Joey 2 deactivated and no need to return. 🙂
i bought mine straight from dish as it was only $ 100.00 bucks!!! had the protection plan they came out removed and deactivated the 4k joey and activated and installed the joey 4.
zcrayfish
Solid signal has provided the wrong number on their website to activate Dish boxes for years now.
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Nominal
I don't know if things are different with Dish but when I first rejoined DirecTV a few years ago Solid Signal was able to create my account and activate the equipment I got from them on a self-install without a truck roll.
S
Solid signal has provided the wrong number on their website to activate Dish boxes for years now.
1-800-333-3474. billing or tech support should be able to do it!!!
S
Help, I'm a little confjused on the activation process.
I purchased the Joey 4 from Solid Signal and shipping box has Call 866 726-4282 to Avtivate new Receiver. That number is Solid Signals number.
I googled and that search said call Dish to activate. I assume that is correct unless this requires a 2 step process.
Please let me know.
Thanks
just call dish and iggy the number from solid signal!!
Foxbat
Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum
Apple has finally released their Apple TV 4K with built-in Siri and a microphone so it can respond to your queries even if you don't have the remote. It also increases in price, to $299. I had been planning on updating my current Apple TV 4K streamers, but that's $600 for the two of them, and that's a pass at this point.

At $299, it had better come with 256 GB of Storage, Gigabit (or better) Ethernet, the latest HDMI tech and standards, and one year of free Apple One. But it probably won't…
14 Replies · 180 views
Ronnie-
Meh. The 4Ks I have will do everything that these do that I need them to do.


Which that's most tech these days for anything released the last four to five years.


It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.
navychop
It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.

Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.
Foxbat
The only thing I can see that is compelling is the AV1 decoding done in the A19's hardware instead of the current ATV4K's processor.
navychop
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
KAB
KAB
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
Not a bit. IMO, apple's are slow to boot up. Time is about the same with 1st gen and 3rd. Roku runs rings around them in that department. I only stick I with the Apple tv's is the Apple infrastructure, which has it's definite advantages. But $300 is not worth sticking with it. Later, Apple!
S
Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.
they all do that anyways.. ever notice your cell phone slows down when you come up for an upgrade.. :what. apple's been making money off of software and not hardware for a while
jamieh1
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV Programming Forum
The new curated multiview is now live.
While on many of the sports channels and non sports channels there is a multi view option button. It will pull up a side bar with many different multi view options.
3 Replies · 161 views
K
It's now expanded to a Build Your Own Multiview, currently available to streaming customers with Geminis and Roku, and coming soon to Android TV, Fire TV, Vizio, LG, Apple TV and Tizen.
b4pjoe
It's now expanded to a Build Your Own Multiview, currently available to streaming customers with Geminis and Roku, and coming soon to Android TV, Fire TV, Vizio, LG, Apple TV and Tizen.
But not on the only device they ship out right now which is the Gemini Air.
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TheRatPatrol
It's now expanded to a Build Your Own Multiview, currently available to streaming customers with Geminis and Roku, and coming soon to Android TV, Fire TV, Vizio, LG, Apple TV and Tizen.
How soon will it be available on Apple TV? Thanks
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
141 Replies · 1356 views
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Y
24 team playoff seems to be real close.

Are we really that far from a 64-team tournament?

The benefit of the 24 team playoff:
  • All the cartel teams that cartels want in playoff are in playoff
    • Independent of record too! Bonus.
  • MONEY!!!!! for the cartels.
  • I'm out of ideas.
Cons
  • Regular season really doesn't matter now other than the rivalry games
    • Top cartel teams can lose three games and still make the playoff
  • Going to start resting players?
    • The playoff is going to be *checks notes* several games!
    • Resting players could make games dumb.
    • Maybe even restrict NIL players from games played.
  • How much are streaming sub costs going up a month to pay for this?!
AZ.
AZ.
24 team playoff seems to be real close.

Are we really that far from a 64-team tournament?

The benefit of the 24 team playoff:
  • All the cartel teams that cartels want in playoff are in playoff
    • Independent of record too! Bonus.
  • MONEY!!!!! for the cartels.
  • I'm out of ideas.
Cons
  • Regular season really doesn't matter now other than the rivalry games
    • Top cartel teams can lose three games and still make the playoff
  • Going to start resting players?
    • The playoff is going to be *checks notes* several games!
    • Resting players could make games dumb.
    • Maybe even restrict NIL players from games played.
  • How much are streaming sub costs going up a month to pay for this?!
One of the pro's I see is in a year with so many undefeated teams they have a good chance of an opening. Few years back you had lower divisions that didnt get a shot. I love collage football and I have no problem with that addition.

We are in what week 5 now? Been two real good ranked games to watch.....Other than that top 25 teams are playing nothing.
Jimbo
One of the pro's I see is in a year with so many undefeated teams they have a good chance of an opening. Few years back you had lower divisions that didnt get a shot. I love collage football and I have no problem with that addition.

We are in what week 5 now? Been two real good ranked games to watch.....Other than that top 25 teams are playing nothing.
There are 68 Power 4 teams, so eventually they will get there I wouldn't imagine ...
AZ.
AZ.
There are 68 Power 4 teams, so eventually they will get there I wouldn't imagine ...
Far from it but you know that....You dont like the larger playoff.....Its ok.....
Jimbo
Far from it but you know that....You dont like the larger playoff.....Its ok.....
Oh, I Hate the idea ...

It would be different if it was a game that you could play 2 or games each week, but when you only play 1 game a week, the larger playoff is Not a good thing ...

The season has how many games now, is it 14 ... then you want to play another 5 (with more to come) against Top 12 (eventually 24 teams) ... remember, the 5 games in the playoffs will be the hardest games all year and back to back.

For example, IF Ohio State should win it all this year ... they play 5 teams in the Top 25, plus they would play 5 more to win it all, depending on how the ranking shake out and if Bye weeks are given.

Thats 10 Ranked teams ... in one year ...
I don't see that happening very often ...
Edit, Bama plays 4, Georgia plays 3, But Ole Miss plays 5 (didn't expect to see that)

That said, I don't see the Buckeyes winning it all this year.
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AZ.
AZ.
Oh, I Hate the idea ...

It would be different if it was a game that you could play 2 or games each week, but when you only play 1 game a week, the larger playoff is Not a good thing ...

The season has how many games now, is it 14 ... then you want to play another 5 (with more to come) against Top 12 (eventually 24 teams) ... remember, the 5 games in the playoffs will be the hardest games all year and back to back.

For example, IF Ohio State should win it all this year ... they play 5 teams in the Top 25, plus they would play 5 more to win it all, depending on how the ranking shake out and if Bye weeks are given.

Thats 10 Ranked teams ... in one year ...
I don't see that happening very often ...

That said, I don't see the Buckeyes winning it all this year.
Yes anyone here knows you 100%....Astros failed no posting...Ohio state loses we hear it.....Its ok....Its called an opinion....I have one so do you.....Problem is?
Jimbo
Yes anyone here knows you 100%....Astros failed no posting...Ohio state loses we hear it.....Its ok....Its called an opinion....I have one so do you.....Problem is?
Seeing theres very little activity in the MLB threads, it wouldn't matter if I posted that the Astros didn't make the Playoffs ...

Theres more NFL info in the Pub section than in the Sports/NFL thread.
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Jimbo
IF they go to 24 teams, and it looks like they will soon ....
Do we Really want Teams with 3 and 4 losses in the Playoffs ?
Is a 3-4 Loss team one thats able to win 4-5 more games against Top teams ?