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Mr Tony

Supporting Founder

Last reply Oct 28, 2009 · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

KNRR Pembina, ND goes silent

due to no money for a digital upgrade....

KNRR/12 (Pembina) has gone silent after the digital transition. The station, a satellite of FOX affiliate KVRR/15 (Fargo), had been operating a low-power digital signal on channel 15 and elected to move digital broadcasts to channel 12 after the transition. However, owner Red River Broadcast Co. says in a filing with the FCC that KNRR has never been profitable, and that fact combined with the recession and the high cost of digital TV facilities means they cannot afford to construct the channel 12 digital facility. Meanwhile, KNRR had to leave channel 15 because that channel is now being used by KGFE (Grand Forks). KNRR has until October 18 to construct the digital channel 12 facility. Channel 12 has a long history: it was originally used by NBC/ABC affiliate KCND, which targeted Winnipeg audiences with a fringe signal. KCND was ultimately discontinued when owner Izzy Asper signed on CKND/9 (Winnipeg) in 1975 to replace KCND. KNRR came on the air a decade later, but strict regulations have prevented KNRR from being carried on Canadian cable systems.

and the FCC document
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/...h.cgi?exhibit_id=763516&formid=911&q_num=5370

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JB Antennaman

Oct 25, 2009

O&O - means owned and operated.

A city is a market when there is no other local cities with a transmitter - that has the same affiliate.

In a state like Pennsylvania on the western side, you have the Johnstown / Altoona Market, the Pittsburgh market and the Erie Market.

I never said you couldn't own more than one station in a state, I said they let you own one network affiliate per a market - unless there is a situation where no one else wants to own it and then they will give you a special dispensation so you can own more than one.

In television COX Media owns a lot of stations - such as WJAC - (NBC)

In Pittsburgh WTAE (ABC) is owned by Hearst Communications - who is also part owner in the Disney corporation.

When you have a network station being owned by large corporation, even if it looses some money, they can offset the cost of running that one station against the profits of other stations that are making money.

When Fox came along, the other stations were already established and Fox was a side show and often relegated into the UHF band. ? How many people can remember the Fox viewing position on Married with Children.

When DTV came along, the stations that were low powered or already on UHF were protected - where they could remain where they were and not have to be moved for the larger network stations that were going to be moved up into the UHF if space allowed.

Some low powered stations actually sold their UHF channel to the larger stations and moved down into the VHF - where weather and noise is a larger factor, but was cheaper to broadcast with less digital power than if they would have stayed on the UHF frequencies.

As I explained before about the pie and only so many ways to slice up the pie (budget). When you move up into the UHF and your power consumption bill (electricity) goes up as much as 400% and your revenue (income) remains the same, sooner or later, something has to happen or your station goes dark.

Many stations have discontinued their news broadcast, bought local news programs from other local stations or combined their resources to save money on transmitters and repeaters.

One example I can give to you is WWCP (Fox) 8 out of Johnstown PA.
It's sister station WATM - (ABC) is on channel 23. (digital channel 24)
Channel 23 never came in well at my location when it was analog because the transmitter was tilted towards Johnstown and Pittsburgh, because of it's original license application, and I was in the wrong location to receive it.

When the digital transition came along, WATM (ABC) found that their signal could not be received in the Altoona area because the mountain their transmitter was on was too tall to broadcast over. Quote - they found that the signal could not be received in Altoona - 5 miles away! - So basically there was not going to be any ABC network station which could be received in Altoona or State College or even Punxsutawney PA or points north.

So they combined resources and used the Channel 8 WWCP transmitter to transmit the High Def signal to the Johnstown - Pittsburgh market and used the sub channels to transmit the WATM signal into that market on standard definition off the same stick off the same tower.

At the same time, they transmit the WATM signal in High Def on channel 23 (digital channel 24), in the Altoona / State College area - which now comes in with no issues, other then the fact that you have to move the antenna further to the east to receive it better, since UHF is line of sight.
They broadcast the WWCP signal on the sub channel in standard definition (SD) on the same stick on the tower. So neither station has to use more power or more transmitters to cover the same amount of area as before the digital transition other then the addition of some low power translators.

The stations are all hard wired with fiber optic cable directly to the cable and sat dish companies, so there is no over the air issues with the cable and Sat TV transmission of their signals.

Low power stations and translators do not fall under any rules of ownership other then they cannot transmit outside the service contour map area of the original license of the station they serve. " You can't infringe upon other markets with your signal "

When you get into other markets such as Morgantown WV, Steubenville Oh, Youngstown OH, you might have the same network, but they have their own studios in that town that does all the local programming, news, weather etc... Even though you might be able to receive KDKA - (CBS) in those markets with some difficulty, they would not be served by KDKA because they could not serve the mission of the station which is to produce so many hours a week of local programming and kids shows.

Translators do not physically have any personnel working there on a permanent basis, so there is no updates for the PSIP or any other services other then to keep the transmitter running, so you still have the same programming as the home base transmitter, but you have no PSIP information for your program guide or clock or station identification and their signal might be followed by their call signs which might have a letter such as a W and then the number for the translator such as 56 followed by other letters, which means nothing to nobody except the station and the FCC.

You might never even see that unless they shut down their transmitter at the end of the broadcast day - such as does WATM / WWCP when they turn off their repeater near Somerset PA

WWCP is owned by Peak Media, while WATM is owned by Palm Television - they are both owned by the same person or the same corporation - and are ran by the same person, they just have different names on paper to keep the FCC happy. WATM (ABC) uses WJAC's (NBC) personnel and studios to produce their daily news program - which is broadcast with a 2 minute delay.

http://en.allexperts.com/e/w/ww/wwcp-tv.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WATM-TV

Mr Tony

Oct 25, 2009

can I ask what the hell your posts have to do with KNRR going back on the air?

but since you decided to post a friggin book (again what does it have to do with the topic at hand) but there is a couple points

O&O - means owned and operated.

really???

I never said you couldn't own more than one station in a state, I said they let you own one network affiliate per a market - unless there is a situation where no one else wants to own it and then they will give you a special dispensation so you can own more than one.

uh yes you did. In your first OT post you wrote

The FCC has a rule where a owner can only own one station per a market.

which I already proved you wrong.

but again...lets keep to the topic at hand of KNRR coming back on the air

roashru

Oct 27, 2009

Iceberg said:
due to no money for a digital upgrade....

KNRR/12 (Pembina) has gone silent after the digital transition. The station, a satellite of FOX affiliate KVRR/15 (Fargo), had been operating a low-power digital signal on channel 15 and elected to move digital broadcasts to channel 12 after the transition. However, owner Red River Broadcast Co. says in a filing with the FCC that KNRR has never been profitable, and that fact combined with the recession and the high cost of digital TV facilities means they cannot afford to construct the channel 12 digital facility. Meanwhile, KNRR had to leave channel 15 because that channel is now being used by KGFE (Grand Forks). KNRR has until October 18 to construct the digital channel 12 facility. Channel 12 has a long history: it was originally used by NBC/ABC affiliate KCND, which targeted Winnipeg audiences with a fringe signal. KCND was ultimately discontinued when owner Izzy Asper signed on CKND/9 (Winnipeg) in 1975 to replace KCND. KNRR came on the air a decade later, but strict regulations have prevented KNRR from being carried on Canadian cable systems.

and the FCC document
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/...h.cgi?exhibit_id=763516&formid=911&q_num=5370

Now thats a bummer. I sometimes stop there at the Flying J for the night.

SamCdbs

Oct 28, 2009

This thread seems to be going off in two directions.

As to the OP, it seems that this channel is a victim, if that is the appropriate word, of the different time table between US and Canadian digital transitions, and the CRTC's sim-sub rules. Really, IMHO, leaving out the Canadian issues, with modern sat dishes, low power repeaters are not need. The 25K people who can get this station OTA can get TV via dish just as well.

As to the duopoly rule, the simple fact is that the FCC does not enforce the duopoly rule. If I built a 1w radio bandit station reaching an audience of 10 people, the FCC would expend 10s of 10000 of dollars to find me and when it did it would kick the door down and drag me away to jail. Sinclair has nearly two dozen illegal duopolies and the FCC is "looking into the matter".

A law that is not enforced is no longer a law.

Mr Tony

Oct 28, 2009

SamCdbs said:
This thread seems to be going off in two directions.

As to the OP, it seems that this channel is a victim, if that is the appropriate word, of the different time table between US and Canadian digital transitions, and the CRTC's sim-sub rules. Really, IMHO, leaving out the Canadian issues, with modern sat dishes, low power repeaters are not need. The 25K people who can get this station OTA can get TV via dish just as well.

I agree that most repeaters in most areas are not needed...in that area the only digital channel that they can get is WDAZ (ABC) from Grand Forks

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 12:37 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

I think we could all use a laugh - Rodney Dangerfield on Carson

Good...simple humor. Enjoy

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJy0WnejlF4

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Jimbo

Today at 12:37 AM

Not Rodney, but a laugh ...

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WHEcmortfK0?feature=share

Bruce

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 11:58 PM · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

How things have changed

I was reading this article

Cable TV ‘cord-cutters’ became the majority in 2022

The steady decline of cable and broadcast television, and the rise of streaming services, reached a sort of inflection point over the past year. Last summer, for the first time, streaming ser…

thehill.com

That said this-
Last summer, for the first time, streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime claimed the largest share of the television viewing audience, surpassing both cable and broadcast TV. Streaming captured 34.8 percent of July viewers, according to Nielsen data, compared to 34.4 percent for cable and 21.6 percent for broadcast.

And then, sometime in the second half of 2022, cord-cutters became the majority. The share of cable and satellite television subscribers dipped to 48 percent, according to a report from Samba TV, a television technology company.

Now I do not consider those with YTTV and the likes, Cord Cutters, but they still do not have Traditional Cable/Satellite delivered Live TV, so I decided to do the math.

There are, now, 129 Million Households in the United States.

In 2015, there were 100 Million Cable/Sat Subscribers , no streaming Live TV Service.

Today, there are 66 Million Live TV subscribers, including Cable, Satellite and Streaming.

Roughly, Streaming Live TV has 14 Million subs including all of them.

So that means, Cable/Satellite now has, roughly, 51 Million Households

So in just 8 years, lost 49% of their subscribers and by the end of this year, expected sub count to be, roughly, 45 million households.

That means a total loss of 55% since 2015 at the end of 2023.

But out of 129 Million households, 45 million will mean only 35% will get Cable/Satellite Delivered Live TV by the end of 2023.

Imagine what 2024 will be like.

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Bruce

Friday at 8:58 AM

And again, 15 months in a row, streaming wins-

Cable and Broadcast added together-36.4%

Streaming with a massive 49.6%, 13.2% higher than Broadcast/Streaming.

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Jimbo

Friday at 11:08 AM

Bruce said:
And again, 15 months in a row, streaming wins-

Cable and Broadcast added together-36.4%

Streaming with a massive 49.6%, 13.2% higher than Broadcast/Streaming.

View attachment 194983

Your Still Thrilled about all this ?

These numbers will Never be accurate as many people use Both still ...

You have services like Hulu Live and You Tube TV that do, what you call Cable, but they ARE Streaming, so Which is is ?

Does it get counted 2x as both Streaming and Cable ?

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Jimbo

Friday at 1:16 PM

But they ARE Streaming as well, so they Should be counted as both, which would make the Streaming numbers even More prominate.

Q.
Who does the Counting for Streaming ?

Neilson does the Broadcast/Cable ...

Bruce

Friday at 1:31 PM

Jimbo said:
But they ARE Streaming as well, so they Should be counted as both, which would make the Streaming numbers even More prominate.

Q.
Who does the Counting for Streaming ?

Neilson does the Broadcast/Cable ...

Same.

Ratings for streaming content is extremely accurate, since the service knows who is watching what and when, when we hit ok on our remotes.

Ratings for Broadcast/Cable shows has always been a estimate.

Jimbo

Friday at 3:11 PM

Bruce said:
Same.

Ratings for streaming content is extremely accurate, since the service knows who is watching what and when, when we hit ok on our remotes.

Ratings for Broadcast/Cable shows has always been a estimate.

If I flip thru shows on an app, 3-4 in a few minutes, does that still show that I watched the whole episode ?

If I watch the Super Bowl for 5 minutes, does that count as watching the Super Bowl ?
Is it the same if I just watched the Commercials.

Bruce

Friday at 3:30 PM

Jimbo said:
If I flip thru shows on an app, 3-4 in a few minutes, does that still show that I watched the whole episode ?

If I watch the Super Bowl for 5 minutes, does that count as watching the Super Bowl ?
Is it the same if I just watched the Commercials.

Nielsen Streaming Ratings: Third-party measurement firm Nielsen tracks U.S. streaming viewership, releasing weekly reports that measure total minutes viewed across major television sets, broken down by program (such as original, acquired, and movie content) rather than minute-by-minute audience retention curves.

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savarese04

Saturday at 1:09 PM

Jimbo said:
Your Still Thrilled about all this ?

These numbers will Never be accurate as many people use Both still ...

Nobody is "happy" or "sad" about this. Simply posting data in an non-editorialized way has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

The data on the streaming side is immensely accurate, I'm guessing to the millisecond. Plus most people likely have not turned off data sharing and thus they are grabbing a huge swath of data. Much more accurate than cable which relies on a smaller sample size and probably not to the second.

In either case, nobody is getting "double counted" because it's usage based. If I watch 100 minutes of content and 30 minutes is on Youtube and 20 minutes on Disney and 50 minutes on YTTV, it's going to show up as 30%, 20%, 50% slices of my personal pie respectively.

Jimbo said:
Q.
Who does the Counting for Streaming ?

Neilson does the Broadcast/Cable ...

Nielsen does. If you go into the settings of any of your streaming accounts, you can turn off the option to share to usage data with their third party measuring service - Nielsen.

Jimbo

Saturday at 2:50 PM

savarese04 said:
Nobody is "happy" or "sad" about this. Simply posting data in an non-editorialized way has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

The data on the streaming side is immensely accurate, I'm guessing to the millisecond. Plus most people likely have not turned off data sharing and thus they are grabbing a huge swath of data. Much more accurate than cable which relies on a smaller sample size and probably not to the second.

In either case, nobody is getting "double counted" because it's usage based. If I watch 100 minutes of content and 30 minutes is on Youtube and 20 minutes on Disney and 50 minutes on YTTV, it's going to show up as 30%, 20%, 50% slices of my personal pie respectively.

Nielsen does. If you go into the settings of any of your streaming accounts, you can turn off the option to share to usage data with their third party measuring service - Nielsen.

I have turned some off, not others ...

Jimbo

Yesterday at 11:28 PM

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u4rACh-Tt5k?feature=share

dishstaller

Yesterday at 11:58 PM

Jimbo said:
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u4rACh-Tt5k?feature=share

Funny thing is that as the screen size and pic quality increase, the quality of the programming has DEcreased.

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Ramy

Supporting Founder

Last reply Yesterday at 11:10 PM · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.

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Yespage

Monday at 3:04 PM

You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?

Jimbo

Monday at 9:19 PM

Yespage said:
You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?

No, I was actually referring to outside of the Top 8, but should have been Top 12 ...

I guess I should have looked at the bracket from last year first ...

I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .

Ronnie-

Tuesday at 7:24 AM

Jimbo said:
I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .

I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.

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AZ.

Tuesday at 7:53 AM

Ronnie- said:
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.

Yep, wonder why we rank the top 25 in 2 poles still? Do the ranking change much if they are unranked or have many loses? They sure do, any given day never take your opponent as a cake walk.....

Jimbo

Tuesday at 8:20 AM

Ronnie- said:
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.

Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time ....however .
You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

They are trying to make this Basketball and its a far cry from the way that is played.

How long till they go to 32 teams ? Then they will say, well, the NFL is 32 teams, we can make more money that way .... except the NFL is 32 teams, that are a set number of teams and divisions, you don't have that in College ... oh but they will try.

They would have to choose what teams they would want in and thats it.
Hopefully that NEVER happens.

I can see the NCAA going away and the CFP taking that portion over and a Collective Bargaining agreement coming in the not to distant future.

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rvvaquero

Tuesday at 8:45 AM

The problem with rankings and playoffs is that they are designed to hype the game and make money. Period.

The only reason that BYU and Texas Tech were upsets is that they were hyped up in the standings in the first place. I love watching BYU and Bear Bachmeier. They are a fun and talented team, but not nearly so strong, fast, big, and skilled as a true top ten team. Does anyone truly believe they could compete with the likes of Georgia, Ohio State, Indiana, Alabama, etc.? Yet, they were ranked above those teams.

Each year, there are 10 to 12 teams who truly could compete for the championship if it depended on winning more than one game in a playoff. Including teams like James Madison, Tulane, BYU, etc. in a playoff has nothing to do with determining a national champion. It's just about money.

Reactions: Yespage and AZ.

Ronnie-

Yesterday at 7:26 PM

Jimbo said:
Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time

Yes. As shown in a few posts now.

Jimbo said:
You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

.

But that wasn't what your stated argument was though.

I mean if you drag it out, no team even a favorite is gonna win every game 20 weeks in a row.

With the parity in college football now, who knows who can beat anyone at any given time?

This season and last have shown it might not be the ones we think that might win it all that will win it all.

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 11:10 PM

Ronnie- said:
Yes. As shown in a few posts now.

But that wasn't what your stated argument was though.

I mean if you drag it out, no team even a favorite is gonna win every game 20 weeks in a row.

With the parity in college football now, who knows who can beat anyone at any given time?

This season and last have shown it might not be the ones we think that might win it all that will win it all.

No, no ... if you want to make the playoffs, you want to Win it ... If you want to Win it, you need to Win 4-5 games in a row against Top 10 teams for the most part, theres a Possibility you'd play someone out side of the Top 10, but not much.

The Playoffs is a 4-5 game Win or Go Home.

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DialgaChampion

Last reply Yesterday at 11:06 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Two Hopper 3 DVRs Installation

Does someone still have the diagram showing how to connect two Hopper 3s again?

I currently have one H3 and one 4K Joey, set up through a 1000.2 eastern arc hybrid lnb and solo hub.

The plan is to replace the Joey with the second H3. Already purchased a duo hub and I have three coax cables coming in from outside, from back when I used to have the older 1000.4 dish and the hopper 2. I don't fully remember, but I think the other two coax cables are just tied up next to the dish outside; will have to check again.

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HipKat

Sep 5, 2022

You need a 42 switch.
Run the outputs to the inputs on the Duo Hub

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DialgaChampion

Sep 5, 2022

HipKat said:
You need a 42 switch.
Run the outputs to the inputs on the Duo Hub

Okay, so I made an updated diagram just to make sure I understand this right...

- 2 Coax connected from outside Dish LNB into 42 switch.
- 2 Coax from 42 switch into Duo Hub.
- 1 Coax from Duo Hub into 1st Hopper 3.
- 1 Coax from Duo Hub into Power Inserter.
- 1 Coax from Power Inserter into 2nd Hopper 3.
- Power Inserter plugged into wall electrical outlet.

Did I get that right? And also, I assume the power inserter is required?

HipKat

Sep 5, 2022

DialgaChampion said:
Okay, so I made an updated diagram just to make sure I understand this right...

- 2 Coax connected from outside Dish LNB into 42 switch.
- 2 Coax from 42 switch into Duo Hub.
- 1 Coax from Duo Hub into 1st Hopper 3.
- 1 Coax from Duo Hub into Power Inserter.
- 1 Coax from Power Inserter into 2nd Hopper 3.
- Power Inserter plugged into wall electrical outlet.

Did I get that right? And also, I assume the power inserter is required?

Twa Coaxes from the LNB if it's Eastern Arc (2 "Eyes") and three if it's Western Arc and yes, the power inserter, it's required

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LQQK

Sep 6, 2022

DialgaChampion said:
Does someone still have the diagram showing how to connect two Hopper 3s again?

I currently have one H3 and one 4K Joey, set up through a 1000.2 eastern arc hybrid lnb and solo hub.

The plan is to replace the Joey with the second H3. Already purchased a duo hub and I have three coax cables coming in from outside, from back when I used to have the older 1000.4 dish and the hopper 2. I don't fully remember, but I think the other two coax cables are just tied up next to the dish outside; will have to check again.

Are you going with 2 H3s for the PIP/Multi-View features or something else?

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DialgaChampion

Sep 6, 2022

LQQK said:
Are you going with 2 H3s for the PIP/Multi-View features or something else?

No, it's specifically to fix the problem with the 4K Joey's live feed intermittently freezing. I'll be watching a live program and then randomly out of nowhere, the picture and sound will just pixelate/freeze for 5-10 seconds, then go back to normal. Doesn't matter which channel it's on either. It's like what happens when the signal cuts out during heavy rain or a thunderstorm, but this will happen even on a perfectly clear day/night.

It doesn't happen with my H3 though, only with the Joey. I've replaced the solo hub and I've also replaced the Joey itself with another brand new 4K Joey, but it's still the same problem. And I know it's not the coax going from the hub into the Joey because I previously had another receiver connected in the same room before changing to the whole home dvr setup and that receiver worked fine.

So I'm basing this off process of elimination, which seems to indicate a problem with the 4K Joey device itself. Only thing I haven't tried is maybe getting a regular Joey 3, if that's still the latest model of Joey currently available, but otherwise the only other solution is getting a second Hopper 3. It'd be nice if the 42 and the Power Inserter weren't necessary and I could just use the Duo Hub though.

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SandFarmer

May 9, 2024

Now that my Owned H3 fried itself. What gear can I remove for just one H3? Already took down the 129 Wing Dish.

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Bobby

May 9, 2024

SandFarmer said:
Now that my Owned H3 fried itself. What gear can I remove for just one H3? Already took down the 129 Wing Dish.

You do know that DISH will replace your owned, fried, Hopper don't you. It's free....

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SandFarmer

May 16, 2024

Bobby said:
You do know that DISH will replace your owned, fried, Hopper don't you. It's free....

Yup. Been there done that many times over the past 29 years. Since not having it, I have found better and cheaper ways to get what little programming in need from it.

Just wondering how far down I can strip down all the gear on my chimney.

The 129 J-Arm grew an Outdoor Long Range AP. I already have several unused RJ lines that are going to be IPoE from the rack. Just wondering how much gear I'm going to be able to put up there.

Sent from my S61Pro using Tapatalk

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DialgaChampion

Yesterday at 9:27 PM

HipKat said:
Twa Coaxes from the LNB if it's Eastern Arc (2 "Eyes") and three if it's Western Arc and yes, the power inserter, it's required

tjboston5676 said:
Yep just swap the lnb with a dpp lnb and connect the 42 switch.

Finally got around to trying to set everything up. Need some help because I've got an issue.

1st Hopper 3 works fine.

2nd Hopper 3 doesn't show any channels in my Top 200 package in the guide, even though it's set to All Subscribed. But it does see the 1st Hopper 3 and can access the recordings on it.

Here's my setup:

DPP EA 61.5/72 LNB on the dish. 2 Coaxes going from LNB into the DPH42 switch.
DPH42 "Receiver 1" port > Power Inserter "To Switch" port..... Power Inserter "To Receiver" port > Duo Hub "ODU 1" port.
DPH42 "Receiver 2" port > Duo Hub "ODU 2" port.
2 Coaxes from both Host ports on the Duo Hub into both Hopper 3s.

I've spent the last few hours troubleshooting, no success. I did the Test Installation on the Diagnostics screen. Red button. Held Power Button for 15 seconds.

Also tried several different configurations with the coax cables according to Google's AI suggestions. Tried connecting both a Solo Hub and a Duo Hub (I don't have 2 solo hubs at the moment), having each Hopper connected to each hub independently. Tried connecting Receiver 2 from the DPH42 directly into the 2nd Hopper 3. Tried having the Power Inserter connected both before and after the hub.

I even checked my account online. Both Hopper 3s are authorized and "Powered" on the account. Even tried "Wake Up Receivers". That second H3 still won't show my channels in the guide at all.

According to Google's AI, it thinks this is the problem:

- When you plug two Hopper 3 units into a single Duo Hub, the hub cannot allocate the correct satellite transponder frequencies to both boxes simultaneously.
- As a result, the first Hopper 3 hogs the satellite line, while the second Hopper 3 gets locked out of the satellite signal entirely—causing an empty guide and blocking live TV. The unlinked status on the whole-home screen occurs because the software recognizes the conflict and stops integration.

But none of its solutions have worked. Any ideas?

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n0qcu

Yesterday at 10:12 PM

Googles AI is wrong as according to what you wrote you have two completely separate satellite line from the switch

My be a dumb question but did you run the check switch option on th 2nd H3

Did you try swapping the H3 to see if the problem switches between the two

That's all I can think of at the moment

Reactions: charlesrshell

DialgaChampion

Yesterday at 11:06 PM

n0qcu said:
Googles AI is wrong as according to what you wrote you have two completely separate satellite line from the switch

My be a dumb question but did you run the check switch option on th 2nd H3

Did you try swapping the H3 to see if the problem switches between the two

That's all I can think of at the moment

Check Status complete. No issues found.
Test Installation screen shows green checks for 61.5 and 72, all 16 tuners.
Options > TV Activity shows 1 of 16 tuners in use.

When I bring up the program guide, the dish scapes channel appears and displays fine. The guide also shows the bonusview channels, and the stream and ppv channels.

I tried swapping the 2nd H3's cables with the 1st H3 and having it as the only H3 connected. It still has the same issue, so it seems isolated to the second Hopper 3 itself.

There was another suggestion from Google, not sure if it applies:

If the TV Activity Screen shows that your tuners are "Available" and "1 of 16 in use," your satellite signal path is 100% active and perfectly working. Your hardware wiring bypass has officially succeeded—the second Hopper 3 is successfully talking to the DPH42 switch, receiving high-frequency satellite data, and its internal processors are healthy. Because the hardware is fully operational, the fact that your screen is still black and the guide is missing means your receiver is stuck in Account Quarantine (Authorization Hold). Because a dual Hopper 3 system requires a non-standard account setup (32 tuners instead of the typical 16-tuner cap), standard "Wake Up" hits sent from the customer app or website are getting rejected by the system. The box can look at the data stream (which is why tuners show as available), but it is legally blocked by the internal software from decoding the live video feeds. To flip the switch and activate the live video feed, a DISH billing agent must manually push a tier-3 service re-hit through their legacy terminal.

Any thoughts?

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 11:06 PM

DialgaChampion said:
No, it's specifically to fix the problem with the 4K Joey's live feed intermittently freezing. I'll be watching a live program and then randomly out of nowhere, the picture and sound will just pixelate/freeze for 5-10 seconds, then go back to normal. Doesn't matter which channel it's on either. It's like what happens when the signal cuts out during heavy rain or a thunderstorm, but this will happen even on a perfectly clear day/night.

It doesn't happen with my H3 though, only with the Joey. I've replaced the solo hub and I've also replaced the Joey itself with another brand new 4K Joey, but it's still the same problem. And I know it's not the coax going from the hub into the Joey because I previously had another receiver connected in the same room before changing to the whole home dvr setup and that receiver worked fine.

So I'm basing this off process of elimination, which seems to indicate a problem with the 4K Joey device itself. Only thing I haven't tried is maybe getting a regular Joey 3, if that's still the latest model of Joey currently available, but otherwise the only other solution is getting a second Hopper 3. It'd be nice if the 42 and the Power Inserter weren't necessary and I could just use the Duo Hub though.

Why not upgrade to the joey 4 with is an android box and dump the 4k joey

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Yesterday at 10:59 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Another Busted in the Panhandle BCSO video

While always entertaining....I hope you guys recognize that the child molesters they arrested in this video were STRICTLY due to tips from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. I strongly suggest that you go to their website and support them. They are the ONLY entity that is trying to curb all the perverts out there. And yes...if you want to have sex or see someone have sex with a minor you ARE a pervert.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swYXp9x5bag&t=911s

0 Replies · 12 views

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mheisen

Yesterday at 8:16 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Hopper 3 with Hopper plus internet connection problems

Over the past few weeks, I have had problems connecting to streaming services (Netflix, HBO et al). When I go to the TV's native Channels, I have no problem. The Dish internet troubleshooter shows I have a good internet connection. I'm wondering whether it's an issue with my internet provider or a problem with the Dish software on the Hopper Plus. Anyone else seeing this?

0 Replies · 34 views

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Yesterday at 8:06 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

68649 Replies · 2679880 views

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Reactions: c-spand

FTA4PA

Yesterday at 1:58 PM

Drift Away - Dobie Gray

Reactions: RaiderPower, long_time_Dish and gms49ers

long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 3:24 PM

Throwing It All Away - Genesis

Reactions: dishstaller and FTA4PA

dishstaller

Yesterday at 4:47 PM

All I Need is a Miracle - Mike + The Mechanics

Reactions: long_time_Dish, RaiderPower and gms49ers

gms49ers

Yesterday at 5:54 PM

Sweet Miracle - Rush

Reactions: dishstaller and long_time_Dish

long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 8:06 PM

Sweet Baby James - James Taylor

Reactions: dishstaller

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JSheridan

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 7:54 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

All DMA's now Western Arc

I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.

176 Replies · 5273 views

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Reactions: That American Girl, MikeD-C05, AkaDoubleG and 6 others

MikeD-C05

Sep 26, 2026

I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH and then if you can't see the western arc you go with streaming versions and then they could keep customers if they had good internet speeds. I mean Sling TV could be changed to Streaming DISH TV if they wanted since both companies are under Echostar. Then you would still be able to use your ota antenna with Air TV devices like I do with Air TV Anywhere with 4 ota tuners.

Reactions: That American Girl, Foxbat, dishdude and 2 others

Scott Greczkowski

Sep 26, 2026

MikeD-C05 said:
I don't know why DISH doesn't just start a streaming version of DISH

I have the same wish.

Reactions: JSheridan, MikeD-C05, dweber and 6 others

bnewt

Monday at 3:30 PM

Scott Greczkowski said:
I have the same wish.

Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite

Reactions: HipKat, telstar_1 and charlesrshell

Scott Greczkowski

Monday at 4:56 PM

bnewt said:
Why?
A lot of people do not have fast internet.
That is why they use satellite

They keep the satellite service too. But have. Full streaming version of dish. As sling tv sucks eggs.

Reactions: JSheridan, MikeD-C05 and charlesrshell

telstar_1

Monday at 8:12 PM

Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

Reactions: charlesrshell

Almighty1

Tuesday at 4:04 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

He does not have the resources aka $$$ compared to Elon Musk as in reality, Elon can eat Charlie for lunch or even mop the floor with Charlie if he wanted to.

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Tuesday at 4:58 PM

ment to 20 yrs dam phone

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BradleyD

Tuesday at 11:57 PM

Dish should use both satellite and internet like they do now for all channels. Use either or or both.... like now but subscribers could choose something like internet only, or sat only, or both.

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 1:01 AM

BradleyD said:
Dish should use both satellite and internet like they do now for all channels. Use either or or both.... like now but subscribers could choose something like internet only, or sat only, or both.

They have sling tv wich sucks ass it needs a major upgrade

Reactions: HipKat, Almighty1, MikeD-C05 and 1 other person

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 7:54 PM

Scott Greczkowski said:
They keep the satellite service too. But have. Full streaming version of dish. As sling tv sucks eggs.

can you DVR every channel now or is still only certain ones you can DVR

Reactions: charlesrshell

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 7:28 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Well crap....Donnie Iris died today

RIP dude. Always liked his music. He was 83

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5Arbm47IQ

5 Replies · 121 views

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dishstaller

Tuesday at 1:03 AM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFmPEgNuELM

FTA4PA

Tuesday at 10:20 AM

R.I.P.

Mr Tony

Tuesday at 10:28 AM

R.I.P.

Foxbat

Yesterday at 6:01 PM

Rest in Peace…

dfergie

Yesterday at 7:28 PM

R.I.P. …

MartyDe

Last reply Yesterday at 6:39 PM · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Interesting article about the work being done to develope an ATSC 3 converter box. Yes it does mention affordable.

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

Group has secured lower pricing from key tech players to make less costly boxes available

www.tvtechnology.com

12 Replies · 684 views

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navychop

Oct 20, 2026

DEATH TO NEXGEN!

Reactions: primestar31, RaVo68, gms49ers and 1 other person

primestar31

Oct 21, 2026

navychop said:
DEATH TO NEXGEN!

It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

Reactions: slow_poke_pete, FTA4PA and navychop

Mister B

Oct 22, 2026

What bothers me is the total waste of broadcasting spectrum in this very crowded market. It has been almost three years now since KFOX converted their broadcast tower to ATSC 3.0 and moved all of their channels to other towers causing noticeable degradation of the picture quality.
I have a Sony TV with 3.0 capabilities but still use the 1.0 version of locals due to the fact that one or all of the 3.0 channels are often missing or unwatchable. In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.
The only thing that could motivate me to be interested in 3.0 would be if all of the minor networks (diginets) could be in at least 720P rather than blurry ultra-compressed 480i.
Three years is long enough to waste one of the few available RF frequencies in the area for this trial.
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

navychop

Oct 22, 2026

Mister B said:
In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.

They might notice the hand going into their pocket for their wallet.

Reactions: FTA4PA

navychop

Oct 22, 2026

Mister B said:
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

QFT. Of course, my preference involves a curb and some kicking.

Reactions: FTA4PA

slow_poke_pete

Tuesday at 5:37 PM

primestar31 said:
It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

WHAT ABOUT THE INTERNET PART OF IT. NO ONE WANTS A BOX CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET EITHER.

navychop

Tuesday at 9:47 PM

Cough, cough. COVID vaccine implants.

:oldlaugh

Reactions: HIFI

Foxbat

Yesterday at 6:39 PM

navychop said:
Cough, cough. COVID vaccine implants.

That would be handy. Download the latest RNA snippets that can be updated over 5G and no more shots! You're a Genius!

Reactions: navychop

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KNRR Pembina, ND goes silent

I think we could all use a laugh - Rodney Dangerfield on Carson

How things have changed

Cable TV ‘cord-cutters’ became the majority in 2022

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Two Hopper 3 DVRs Installation

Another Busted in the Panhandle BCSO video

Hopper 3 with Hopper plus internet connection problems

Song Name Game Part 3!

All DMA's now Western Arc

Well crap....Donnie Iris died today

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York