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Has there ever been any serious discussion here about the pros and cons of buying a typical standalone receiver vs. running a satellite backend system using DVB-S2 tuner cards or USB-connected tuners? I'll start a list:
Standalone receivers:
PROS:
PROS:
If you think I am wrong about any of the above points or want to add your own, that's the reason I started this thread. I may not have much to add to the above but I would be interested to see what others think.
Standalone receivers:
PROS:
- Not as expensive as a computer and tuners
- No additional frontend systems required - you directly connect your HDTV
- Generally easier to set up and configure
- In some cases additional features such as blind scanning are included and are much easier to use
- Virtually every receiver out there has bugs in the software that cannot be fixed by the user
- Users have no say over the software/firmware, you take what the manufacturer gives you (with rare exceptions)
- Even if firmware updates are made available, those typically end once newer models are released, or after some finite period of time
- Live programs and recordings can only be viewed on the TV connected to the receiver - typically there is no provision to stream to other devices on a local network (again with rare exceptions)
- Few receivers will play 4:2:2 and other very high-bandwidth signals
- As new formats appear it makes the receiver obsolete, so you may need to buy a new receiver to get all the channels even if your old one works perfectly fine. Even today many receivers will not receive all the available signals (DVB-S2 8PSK or 16PSK).
- No EPG in North America
- Far too many receivers do not have accurate clocks, which is a real problem if you are trying to use their PVR features - assuming they even have PVR capability in the first place
- Many receivers have a nasty habit of simply locking up or otherwise going "out to lunch" at inopportune times
- (This will be controversial but I will say it anyway) Once you buy a receiver, if you have problems you have to deal with they guy you bought it from. Some dealers are very good, and then there are others that seem to have Jekyll/Hyde personalities, and guess which shows up after they have your money?
PROS:
- You can stream the received signals and recordings to frontend systems (and in some cases, directly to computers/tablets/phones) anywhere on your local network
- If you encounter bugs it it somewhat more likely that the software developers will fix them - eventually.
- You can have multiple tuners. I've heard apocryphal stories of people having sixteen tuners (four quad tuner cards) in a single system, though the most I've seen personally is six
- Each tuner can record multiple channels from the same transport stream at the same time, so depending on the throughput limits of the hardware you could be recording from several sources at once
- If you are really good with hardware and software you can fix your own bugs, or even design your own backend system from the ground up
- If new formats become available you may only need to buy a new card that support the new formats, not scrap the entire system
- Generally speaking, the backend will stream or record any unencrypted (in the clear) signal that the card can receive, including bandwidth-intensive formats. If the frontend device has good enough hardware to play it, you can watch it - or after it's recorded, you can use an external program to convert it to a different format that is a bit less resource hungry
- The computer gets its time from an Internet time source (NTP server) so its clock is always right
- Much rarer for such a system to totally lock up or stop working, though it's not unheard of. But if that happens and it's not a hardware issue, it can probably be fixed by changing or upgrading software
- Although it's not an easy thing to set up, it's possible to actually have an EPG that shows what's coming up, though probably not for every channel you can receive
- Typically quite a bit more expensive than a standalone receiver, though this could change
- These systems can be much more difficult to set up and configure than a standalone receiver
- If it stops working or doesn't work properly, it's up to you to figure out what the problem is and fix it. For better or worse, you can't dump the problem in the lap of a dealer
- To play content on a TV you generally need to connect a computer or device running frontend software, which in many cases could be XBMC with an appropriate PVR addon. That also implies that you can stream directly to a computer, tablet, phone, or other device that can run XBMC or other frontend software
- There is generally no compression of the signal, therefore any recordings made can be huge, depending on the source
- Those familiar with Windows can use MediaPortal as the backend software but you may encounter a lot of bugs, particularly if you attempt to use DiSEqC or tone switches
- Those more familiar with Linux can use TVHeadEnd as the backend software, although you have to use the newest unstable versions to get the best hardware support. Which of course means that things might break if/when you upgrade. TVHeadEnd is also a bit non-intuitive until you get the hang of it
- If you have problems setting up such a system it is often difficult to get assistance. Linux guys in particular seem to have this attitude that you should learn all about Linux and fix your own problems, even though that's not entirely a realistic attitude in these days of user-friendly distributions such as Ubuntu. The attitude toward users in the Linux world is totally different from that in the Windows world
- Under Linux you may need to manually compile the drivers for your tuner card(s), which although not exceedingly difficult, can be a somewhat daunting task for new Linux users. And worse yet, every time Linux pushes out a new kernel upgrade, which they do rather frequently, and you install it, you may need to recompile the drivers again
- There are other software choices on both platforms but as far as I can tell none of them have the degree of support or the number of users as the ones I have mentioned above
- Sometimes the software is designed for free-to-air in other parts of the world and needs adjustments to work in the USA. This is one of the major problems with MediaPortal, which is very Euro-centric
- If it is possible to do blind scanning at all you will probably need to install a separate program, and even then you may have problems if the software was designed to operate in an environment different than yours, such as a specific custom Linux build. And such software will not automatically map the found channels into your backend program
- Most of the instructions that are out there for building such system suck, IMHO. They were apparently written by programmers and tend to be way too heavy on the mundane technical details, and light on the questions first-time users are most concerned with, such as "What do I need to do to get this thing to work?"
- While you can use multiple tuner cards, there may be limitations on the type or number of tuner cards that can be used, that are imposed by the software and/or operating system. For example, in Windows you may not be able to use two or more of the same model card because the Windows drivers won't support it, though that may depend on the brand of card used
- Just as receiver manufacturers stop supporting older receiver models, tuner manufacturers may stop issuing driver updates for older cards - or sometimes even for current cards that are still being sold. This could be a potential problem if you ever update your operating system
- Some backend software that works great with OTA tuners (such as the HDHomeRun) may not work very well, or at all, with satellite tuners
If you think I am wrong about any of the above points or want to add your own, that's the reason I started this thread. I may not have much to add to the above but I would be interested to see what others think.
Which do you prefer to use to receive Free-To-Air satellite TV?
32 votes total
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13552 views
I think as long as the card is capable of receiving that particular modulation (qpsk, 8psk, 16psk, etc) the rest is in the software, IP or the various flavours of DVB.
With 4K H265 coming, not sure how long it will be before STBs have this capability. The only thing I am worried about is spending $300 on a card and they decide to add another modulation format that is not compatable with current cards/STBs. Then again, this hobby is ever changing and by the time we see something like that it will be time for another upgrade anyway.
With 4K H265 coming, not sure how long it will be before STBs have this capability. The only thing I am worried about is spending $300 on a card and they decide to add another modulation format that is not compatable with current cards/STBs. Then again, this hobby is ever changing and by the time we see something like that it will be time for another upgrade anyway.
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This thread is a place to discuss the 4K events that appear on channel 540. We are getting, at this point, one college football game a week. Let's hope there is more coming.
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298785 views
Hmmm, I'm not seeing anything like those events in our Hopper 3 guide for tonight or Saturday.
I went into the Tools menu and requested a Guide Update. I'll try looking at it after the update completes.
For quite a while now, people with a VIP211k have been losing their recordings on their activated external HDDs... even when there's nothing physically wrong with HDD. I believe this is an intentional and underhanded tactic that Dish is pulling in an attempt to force users away from the VIP211k.
They are obviously regretting that they ever let users have a "non-dvr" dvr in the first place. You would think they would be happy charging you a $40 one time fee... and then be happy letting the customer be the one responsible for HDD failures.
Dish clearly hates the 211k bitter-clingers. This recording deletion problem is intentional (IMO), and I think it is just one more tool that they are using. Hopper and a 2-year agreement... that's what they want you to have. Think about that... a 2-year agreement... with a company $30 Billion in debt (that's with a B). What happens when all that debt causes them to drop the channel that may have been your whole reason for having Dish in the first place? Guess who's stuck with a service that no longer suits their needs... for the remainder of the 2-year agreement.
On top of that, they don't want you to install it yourself. I purchased and installed all my equipment myself. That used to be common. Now, they lie to me and tell me that my dish must be updated to use a Hopper. Funny thing is... they don't even know what dish I have because they didn't install it, and I didn't tell them. If you ask what type of dish/LNBs the hopper needs... good luck getting an answer. All they know is that whatever you have needs to be upgraded by an installer.
It is quite apparent to me that they care much more about staying in their box, than they do working with the customer. That's too bad, because it hasn't always been that way. It's like they are totally unaware of the current business environment that they are trying to compete in.
I have been a customer since 2010. I will be cancelling my service before the next period. Yeah, I know, my $1,200 a year won't make a difference to them. It just seems like they have forgotten who needs who, especially when you consider the competition in today's streaming world. But hey, they will have succeed in forcing me off the 211k.
They are obviously regretting that they ever let users have a "non-dvr" dvr in the first place. You would think they would be happy charging you a $40 one time fee... and then be happy letting the customer be the one responsible for HDD failures.
Dish clearly hates the 211k bitter-clingers. This recording deletion problem is intentional (IMO), and I think it is just one more tool that they are using. Hopper and a 2-year agreement... that's what they want you to have. Think about that... a 2-year agreement... with a company $30 Billion in debt (that's with a B). What happens when all that debt causes them to drop the channel that may have been your whole reason for having Dish in the first place? Guess who's stuck with a service that no longer suits their needs... for the remainder of the 2-year agreement.
On top of that, they don't want you to install it yourself. I purchased and installed all my equipment myself. That used to be common. Now, they lie to me and tell me that my dish must be updated to use a Hopper. Funny thing is... they don't even know what dish I have because they didn't install it, and I didn't tell them. If you ask what type of dish/LNBs the hopper needs... good luck getting an answer. All they know is that whatever you have needs to be upgraded by an installer.
It is quite apparent to me that they care much more about staying in their box, than they do working with the customer. That's too bad, because it hasn't always been that way. It's like they are totally unaware of the current business environment that they are trying to compete in.
I have been a customer since 2010. I will be cancelling my service before the next period. Yeah, I know, my $1,200 a year won't make a difference to them. It just seems like they have forgotten who needs who, especially when you consider the competition in today's streaming world. But hey, they will have succeed in forcing me off the 211k.
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7280 views
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
Cutting Edge
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68493 Replies
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2670153 views
Staff member
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Hard getting used to the new younger Gibbs, Mark Harmons son had the right look but I understand he didn't want the role.
Still I'm enjoying, pretty good job with Franks.
Still I'm enjoying, pretty good job with Franks.
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4177 views
Mark Harmon is coming back as Gibbs in Origins, for the full season. Just saw, Dinozzo too, on NCIS . That will be an interesting writing project.
deadline.com
Mark Harmon Returning To 'NCIS: Origins' As Gibbs For Season 3
Mark Harmon is returning to NCIS: Origins for a season-long arc.
deadline.com
Supporting Founder
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
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1300 views
College Football Playoff nears agreement on 24-team expansion that could end title games
The College Football Playoff field is about to get much more crowded as the conferences near a deal to double the size of the field to 24 teams starting next year
www.cbssports.com
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Can't help but wonder if a worker overlooked checking the harness. I rarely ride a roller coaster anymore but when I do I check the harness myself pretty aggressively.
Can't imagine what the son is going through.
www.dailymail.com
Can't imagine what the son is going through.
Dad levitated and bled then fell to his death from coaster
Eyewitnesses have shared fresh details of the horrific accident that happened at Six Flags Over Georgia on Monday afternoon.
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Could B&M’s Patent on the “Clamshell” Ride Restraint Design Offer Clues as to What Happened on Goliath at Six Flags Over Georgia?
Incredibly sad news out of Six Flags Over Georgia as it’s being reported one man was killed after being ejected from Goliath, the B&M hyper coaster. Many news outlets have posted pictures of pe…
bgtsafari.com
Had no idea there were that many redundancies built into those restraints.Could B&M’s Patent on the “Clamshell” Ride Restraint Design Offer Clues as to What Happened on Goliath at Six Flags Over Georgia?
Incredibly sad news out of Six Flags Over Georgia as it’s being reported one man was killed after being ejected from Goliath, the B&M hyper coaster. Many news outlets have posted pictures of pe…
It makes sense, however, I would want more types of restraints, so if one doesn't work, the other does ... the restraints coming over the shoulder I would have expected ... with a Seat belt as last resort.
Fwiw, I inquired with what they use on Coasters at Cedar Point, various Coasters, different restraints according to what the car and track requires ...
NONE of the Coasters at CP use THAT particular system
I'm glad to see ...
Lifetime Supporter
Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.
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1558 views
Y
Browns lose a close one with... The Jets. That is a classic Browns loss (granted, any loss is a classic one it seems). 49'ers, Vikings, and Chiefs remain undefeated. The AFC north have a three way tie at 3-2 for second place.
A big win for the Patriots, and they are now 3-2.
Browns lose a close one with... The Jets. That is a classic Browns loss (granted, any loss is a classic one it seems). 49'ers, Vikings, and Chiefs remain undefeated. The AFC north have a three way tie at 3-2 for second place.
Troy Aikman seems to confirm he'll be leaving ESPN
Aikman says he looks forward to "where my next landing spot will be."
www.nbcsports.com
M
Hopefully nowhere near a microphone.Troy Aikman seems to confirm he'll be leaving ESPN
Aikman says he looks forward to "where my next landing spot will be."
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Wasn't exactly sure where to post this. Just had a customer come in inquiring about internet. He has HughesNet and had heard good things about mine. He asked if we provided email addresses and it kinda caught me off guard. I said he should be able to keep whatever email he had been using....my sister in law is still using a BellSouth email addy and they haven't been around here for many years. He said he had gotten a letter from HughesNet stating that they had until Nov 16th to save, move, forward, whatever, their Hughesnet emails because they would lose them after that date.
I have never heard of a company simply mass-deleting email accounts (the customer still has his HughesNet service). From what I understand, in the past, the company who was ditching their email service simply sold the customer base to a company like Google.
Anyone else getting this letter. He said he would show it to me tomorrow when I go out there and set up his internet.
I have never heard of a company simply mass-deleting email accounts (the customer still has his HughesNet service). From what I understand, in the past, the company who was ditching their email service simply sold the customer base to a company like Google.
Anyone else getting this letter. He said he would show it to me tomorrow when I go out there and set up his internet.
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Still the same number of years, just more Sunsets…Wouldn't we then die of old age sooner?
Anyone else watch this show? Any guesses as to what was in the box Gibbs gave to Abby that was on her desk? It look liked it was glowing.
I also heard that someone was leaving the show at the end of this season. Any guesses as to who thats going to be?
I also heard that someone was leaving the show at the end of this season. Any guesses as to who thats going to be?
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Tony as the director.
Would you rather have LaRoche ???Tony as the director.
OTHER Mini Multiswitch
I just received 6 receiver 2 port mini Multiswitch and it work great, no external power need it, and you can connect 6 receiver instead of 4 on most Mini Multiswitches... If anyone is interested in where they can get one PM me....
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