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Doesn't 'require' internet, but it sure is a lot nicer with it than without it.

Thank you guys very much, I think I have my questions answered. It looks like I can indeed switch to dish without too much trouble. As always I will have to do a few things.

With the way these company's work, I think I will do the things I need to do to be able to switch back and forth from dish to directv without too much trouble.

This industry is crazy, all the prices online are only available to "new" customers and long term customers get screwed. Most other industries give you a price and it's the price. If you have a long term contract that is still in effect, you may have to honor it, but if not you can get the newer price.

My directv bill is at $116/month. Been a customer for 17 years!! The same service I get is listed on their web site for around $65/month and that's about what dish charges new customers as well. I don't have any movie channels, the only specialty channels I have are the SEC network, B10 network, golf channel and a few others like history/discovery channels.

I've called directv and I understand that if I go through enough BS I can get it down to something more reasonable, but at this point it's the principle of the thing.

I'm ready to get set up where I can swap companies about every 2-3 years and get the prices they list on their web sites. It's just insane that they treat their customers like they do.

For comparison, I do application hosting on the internet for a living. I have a co-locate company that I purchase space/servers from on a monthly basis. They just recently advertised a special rate on their web site. I got into an online chat session to see if I could change my plan to get the new rates. In about 10 minutes not only did I have the new rates, but they gave me an additional 10% because I had been a customer for 5+ years.

I guess the satellite tv guys make a lot of money screwing customers, but I for one am ready to do what I can do to fight back.

Thanks, gabow

JSheridan said:

Doesn't 'require' internet, but it sure is a lot nicer with it than without it.

Click to expand...

The hopper does require broadband internet connection according to the tech and how he/she will get paid so if the Op doesn't have broadband then the tech will take a hit but no it doesn't effect over all main function.

As for you Op wanting the install to not involve any more wires... what I would do as the tech would be so long as I could get a LOS from the direct mount, use that mount and bring down double lines from the LNB to a small area nearby a few feet and mount the node and use that single RG6 3Ghz cable (has to be that) to run to where that DirectTV box SwM or whatever they are using then drop a tap which would split to the locations needed a hopper and a joey and be done. Sounds alike a quick hour install if everything goes like that. Good luck!

dvrexpander said:

The hopper does require broadband internet connection according to the tech and how he/she will get paid so if the Op doesn't have broadband then the tech will take a hit but no it doesn't effect over all main function.

As for you Op wanting the install to not involve any more wires... what I would do as the tech would be so long as I could get a LOS from the direct mount, use that mount and bring down double lines from the LNB to a small area nearby a few feet and mount the node and use that single RG6 3Ghz cable (has to be that) to run to where that DirectTV box SwM or whatever they are using then drop a tap which would split to the locations needed a hopper and a joey and be done. Sounds alike a quick hour install if everything goes like that. Good luck!

Click to expand...

Most likely directv doesn't have any switch or box mounted near the dish, possibly just a grounding block, but what you are proposing should work anyways, just need a place to mount the node.

gabow said:

Thank you guys very much, I think I have my questions answered. It looks like I can indeed switch to dish without too much trouble. As always I will have to do a few things.

With the way these company's work, I think I will do the things I need to do to be able to switch back and forth from dish to directv without too much trouble.

This industry is crazy, all the prices online are only available to "new" customers and long term customers get screwed. Most other industries give you a price and it's the price. If you have a long term contract that is still in effect, you may have to honor it, but if not you can get the newer price.

My directv bill is at $116/month. Been a customer for 17 years!! The same service I get is listed on their web site for around $65/month and that's about what dish charges new customers as well. I don't have any movie channels, the only specialty channels I have are the SEC network, B10 network, golf channel and a few others like history/discovery channels.

I've called directv and I understand that if I go through enough BS I can get it down to something more reasonable, but at this point it's the principle of the thing.

I'm ready to get set up where I can swap companies about every 2-3 years and get the prices they list on their web sites. It's just insane that they treat their customers like they do.

For comparison, I do application hosting on the internet for a living. I have a co-locate company that I purchase space/servers from on a monthly basis. They just recently advertised a special rate on their web site. I got into an online chat session to see if I could change my plan to get the new rates. In about 10 minutes not only did I have the new rates, but they gave me an additional 10% because I had been a customer for 5+ years.

I guess the satellite tv guys make a lot of money screwing customers, but I for one am ready to do what I can do to fight back.

Thanks, gabow

Click to expand...

DirecTV: Channel Stacking Switch technology (CSS)
Dish: Band Stacking Switch technology (BSS)

Neither is better than the other as both have their advantages and disadvantages. No question the CSS allowing for a single cable into the home sure helps with exterior aesthetics, which really means a lot to many people, but once inside the home, BSS has some advantages. Both CSS and BSS are great technologies. One can make compelling arguments for one over the other. Either one is a winner.

DishSubLA said:

DirecTV: Channel Stacking Switch technology(CSS)
Dish: Band Stacking Switch technology (BSS)

Neither is better than the other as both have their advantages and disadvantages. No question the CSS allowing for a single cable into the home sure helps with exterior aesthetics, which really means a lot to many people, but once inside the home, BSS has the advantages.

Click to expand...

Just curious once inside the home what are the advantages to BSS over SWM.

Looking over dish's wiring diagrams I just don't see it, but maybe I am missing something.

satgirl51 said:

Just curious once inside the home what are the advantages to BSS over SWM.

Looking over dish's wiring diagrams I just don't see it, but maybe I am missing something.

Click to expand...

The following is from a post of 5 YEARS ago, but much of it still stands today. However, I know that the Entropic CSS technology did claim a "core technology" of 12 tuners, but DirecTV implemented an 8 tuner/channel SWM LNBF system seems to have stayed with that. I don't know if DirecTV has since implemented a 12 tuner SWM LNBF for residential. DirecTV has implemented the latest version of Entropics CSS technology for MDU's, but not residential, as far as I can tell. The brains of CSS is at the LNBF, while the brains of the BSS is at the switch, either at the LNBF internal switch or at the external switch, which can be put INSIDE a dwelling protecting it from the elements. Some of the following may have changed, but I have not found any new data conflicting the following for either DircTV or Dish RESIDENTAL installs. I should add that Dish has since implemented DishPlusPro technology, and enhancement to the BSS technology. I can't find anything showing DirecTV having enhanced their BSS RESIDENTIAL install, but certainly they have enhanced their BSS for MDU installs. Again, to each his own.

Orignally posted in year 2010 in response to a post:

While there was a DirecTV Slimline reflector, I take it your mean DirecTV's SWM (sometimes referred to as "swim"), Single Wire Multi-switch system?

"DirecTV's SWM is a Channel Stacking Switch (CSS) technology.
It has both advantages and disadvantages compared with DishPro systems.

DishPro is a Band Stacking Switch (BSS) technology.
It has advantages and disadvantages compared with DirecTV's SWM systems.

They are NOT compatible.

Neither the CSS nor the BSS is, objectively, better than the other. However, Dish and DirecTV chose the system that, subjectively, seemed the better for its situation.

All tecnology is about compromise: if you want something, you will have to give-up something else. There is a compromise to having the advantage of the single wire from the reflector to the switch, while DishPro pays for its consistently simple bandwidth advantage by requiring a wire per satellite (minus one cable if it is fed to the input port of DishPro Plus LNBF's) to the multi-switch.

DirecTV liked the single wire, while Dish might not have liked the limitations of using channels and having to use an external switch on all installs of more than one box. DirecTV's SWM Ka installs use much of the prime CATV band (B-band converters to the Ka A-band are not to be used for SWM boxes; it needs to pass the Ka in the B-band at the CATV spectrum) for transmission to the STB. Ka A-band for DirectTV uses the same spectrum as DishPro's upper band from 1650 to 2150MHz. So DirecTV's Intermediate Frequency is as follows: legacy for Ku services is still only at IF 950 to 1450MHz, Ka services at IF B-band at 250 to 750MHz, and Ka services at IF A-band 1650 to 2150Mhz. But remember SWM translates all that bandwidth to a maximum of 8 channels (one channel per tuner) serving up to 8 single tuner boxes or, by assigning each STB its own (four) spectrum with 2 channels each, up to 4 dual tuner DVR's using one multi-switch.

Also, the control frequency for the SWM is below ATSC OTA frequencies, so everything in an SWM install has to rated from 2MHz to 2150 MHz. SWM gets very complicated, but for the disadvantage of the channel spectrum to the STB's and the expense of an external switch on almost all installs, you do get the advantage of a single wire to the mult-switch. DirecTV felt it was worth it, while Dish can serve up to 4 STB's looking at 2 satellites with no external switches and keep installation costs down. Consider that after the single wire reaches the DirecTV multi-switch, cables still have to be run from the mult-switch in a SWM install of more than ONE box, but only a single wire to each dual tuner box requiring no splitters or separators but providing signal to both tuners by connecting the cable to only tuner 1. Again, which technology (CSS or BSS) is "better" is all subjective.

No, neither Dish nor DirecTV has the "better" system, so let's not get into any "D or E is better than the other" baloney. ." End of year 2010 post.

2015 March 24: Dish has since implemented the DishProPlus LNBF's that are capable of looking at 4 satellites with a single cable to each STB.

While neither CSS nor BSS is objectively technologically superior than the other, there is a real world matter of cost to CSS for the aesthetics of a single wire from the reflector (or slightly easier/faster install), while Dish has a lower cost of install for RESIDENTIAL (however, CSS for MDU installs could be less expensive), but with more wires from the reflector. Yet, once installed, we the consumer have the very same high level of experience whether we are viewing via CSS or BSS. IMHO, BSS is one of the many reasons Dish still prices lower for the consumer in most cases. Indeed, Charlie Ergen had to abide by the NDS when he was trying to merge with DircTV, but looking at DirecTV's books did prompt him to mention DirecTV's "very expensive network." He was probably floored at the cost compared to his less expensive, but equally robust, at the time, network. Remember the old Hughes corporation was a defense contractor and "cost" meant nothing to them when they created DirecTV. So, DTV lives up to its legacy with something as wondrous as a single-cable from the reflector to the switch. It just wouldn't be DirecTV with more than one cable from the reflector, it adds that little "cachet" for which DirecTV has always been known.

From all I've seen, DirecTV, with its critical mass and savvy, is among the MVPD's paying the LEAST for channel content (per channel) along with Dish and a few MSO's, EXCEPT for NFL ST, and that service along with other "costs" (and that means the technical part of DirecTV) is most likely why DTV is still among the most expensive services, putting DTV pretty darn close to the FiOS expensive network. DirecTV's legacy has always been a bit more "deluxe" than Dish, and there is a slight premium to using CSS for the coolness of only a single-wire from the reflector instead of more wires from the reflector BSS with Dish's legacy of lowest possible pricing. But DirecTV is a good service with a great product, the Genie, so I would never criticize someone if they prefer DirecTV for whatever reason. Personally, I'll take a few more cables on the side of the house for a lower monthly bill and the advantages of the Hopper with Sling any day (not saying better than the Genie, just saying HWS not at all a diminished experience compared to the Genie). Sure, I would love a single-wire along the house, but I aint gonna pay for it every month in a higher monthly subscription price for the same services on DTV , along with paying for NFLST every month even if I don't subscribe to it. If I can get from DirecTV today what I get from Dish for less, then I would say bye to Dish and hello to DirecTV. But as of today, Dish wold have to piss me off before I would be willing to pay MORE than just a bit more for DTV, but I would be satisfied with DTV compared to my horrible cable company. Well, that was all for what it's worth, which may not be much.

satgirl51 said:

Most likely directv doesn't have any switch or box mounted near the dish, possibly just a grounding block, but what you are proposing should work anyways, just need a place to mount the node.

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No I meant a switch or something splitting the swm signal at the home prob in a basement or something where a tap can be placed. As for a ground block near the dish, maybe but the node is UL rated so doesn't matter there.

Thanks for the info, though I believe a few things have changed since that post.

DishSubLA said:

However, I know that the Entropic CSS technology did claim a "core technology" of 12 tuners, but DirecTV implemented an 8 tuner/channel SWM LNBF system seems to have stayed with that. I don't know if DirecTV has since implemented a 12 tuner SWM LNBF for residential.

Click to expand...

Most installs get the swm 8 lnb, but some can get the swm 13 lnb as well. Both have no external switch, all built into lnb.

DishSubLA said:

DirecTV liked the single wire, while Dish might not have liked the limitations of using channels and having to use an external switch on all installs of more than one box.

Click to expand...

External switch is only ever absolutely need for very large installs (more than 13 tuners) Though swm 16 is installed very often with more than 8 tuners as the swm13 lnb is new.

DishSubLA said:

Dish has since implemented the DishProPlus LNBF's that are capable of looking at 4 satellites with a single cable to each STB.

Click to expand...

This is a tricky question, while directv swm have up to 6 lnb inputs(its looking at a lot more satellites than that of course)

DishSubLA said:

DirecTV's books did prompt him to mention DirecTV's "very expensive network." He was probably floored at the cost compared to his less expensive, but equally robust, at the time

Click to expand...

I believe when the merger thing was going on was way before directv swm or at least in its infancy, as your right about directv's legacy setup, it was expensive and very very complicated, Dish's system at the time was sooooo much better. Directv swm now is very very cheap, you can get a swm 8 lnb, including splitter and PI all for less than $30 on ebay, swm 13 cost around $35. Which I believe is a bit cheaper than if you priced together a Dish lnb, node and splitter.

I do think dish has a good system though, just directv swm is much simpler now.