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Mokanic

Last reply Feb 10, 2020 · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

Seeking Antenna Gurus

Setup: (All signal components but antenna are newly added in the last week)

Outdoor Antenna (~20 foot) >>>> CM LTE Filter ->>>>> PreAmp (Channel Master CM-7777HD 17db / 30db) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Channel Master CM3414 4way spliiter (8db)>>>>>>
>>>TV
>>>Dish Hopper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Happauge WinTV-dual HD

RabbitEars.Info

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www.rabbitears.info

OR

TV Fool

Currently have a CM antenna. Cannot remember the model. It is about 15 - 20 years old. Looks similar to the CM Advantage 60/100. It is directional and WAS rotatable. But, motor gone last week. Picking up 47 - 55 channels depending on tuner with about 43 - 48 usable channels. No large trees within 200 feet of signal path (then woods). Medium size tree on one side of signal path.

I now have it pointed and tuned to the Raleigh-Durham market area. But, I like the "down east" stations for news and first hand accounts for hurricane coverage and as a back-up to "my" local market. I may buy a new motor and stick with what I have. BUT, no harm in looking.

I ran across these two;

Antenna Direct DB8e (UHF only, but may get VHF high w/o a specific VHF di-pole) 70 mile (more expensive)
Antenna Direct C4-V-CJM (UHF/VHF) 70 mile - (I am certain 70 mile for UHF, but methinks VHF is shorter than that, 25 - 35)

Not the only ones I am comparing (Strong Signals has the Xtreme Signals HDB8X multi-directional) , but I cannot find out the technical differences between these two made by the same company. Other than no (1) VHF on DB8e, (2) ability to custom turn the DB8e and (3) size/looks.

I found the receiving pattern for the DB8e, but I cannot find something comparable for the C4-V-CJM.
Not complaining about my first world problem, but am looking to improve my "OTA lot in life".

Do the antenna gurus have any guidance on the technical differences between these two?
Any other antenna recommendations? :hatsoff

P.S. I really like the rabbitears.info site better than TVFool now. I found out through rabbitears that WNCT ch 9 applied to move from VHF-10 to high UHF-45 in 2012 (still pending?). This is one of the "down east" stations I am having trouble picking up lately, which I don't fully understand. They have been on VHF-10 since the beginning of DTV. I wonder if they changed direction of pattern or reduced power in the last year or so. A lot more info (too much??) which is easier to access.

TLDR version - need advice for antenna upgrade or replacement.

6 Replies · 2367 views

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Trip

Feb 9, 2020

I think we need a bit more information. Which stations do you receive now with the current antenna in its current position, versus which stations are you trying to add?

With regard to WNCT, they applied to move to 45 but the move was never granted by the FCC. In the repack, WNCT will move from channel 10 to 12. WNCT is currently adjacent to WTVD, which is quite a bit stronger and may be interfering with WNCT in your area. If this is the case, the repack will fix that problem because WTVD is moving from 11 to 9. When all is said and done, WTVD will be on 9 and WNCT on 12, eliminating the adjacency. If WNCT is your only problem child, you may want to just wait until July and see if the repack ultimately resolves your issue.

- Trip

Mokanic

Feb 9, 2020

907TECH - Thanks. I will take the advice in to serious consideration. I don't know which way I am going yet. But, per Trip I may need to wait until after the final repack happens. I know part of it got postponed because of the hurricane last year. But, I thought it would be done in Feb and not July.

Trip -

Antenna is currently situated ~280 - 290 degrees pointing W/NW.

Getting non-frustrating signals on these channels and associated sub channels (Some stronger than others. Some of the non pointed ones [19-1 and 43-1] are intermittent, but not terrible);

Channel (Virt / Real)	Callsign	Network	Xmitter Miles	Direction (True)	Direction (Magnetic)	Strength	Signal Margin (db)
5‑1 (17)	WRAL-TV	NBC	18.3	285.2	294.7	106.05	67.01
50‑1 (15)	WRAZ	FOX	18.3	285.2	294.7	106.02	67.19
22‑1 (18)	WLFL	CW	18.3	285.2	294.7	92.66	53.51
28‑1 (14)	WRDC	My	18.3	285.2	294.7	92.22	53.5
17‑1 (8)	WNCN	CBS	18.3	285.2	294.7	86.16	50.16
11‑1 (11)(>9)	WTVD	ABC	18.5	283.6	293.1	93.57	57.57
34‑1 (23)	WARZ-CD	RTV	7.3	223.7	233.2	88.54	48.88
43‑1 (7)	WHFL-CD	REL	19.5	148.7	158.2	61.89	25.89
19‑1 (28)	WUNM-TV	PBS	60.3	124.8	134.3	55.77	15.63
7‑1 (34)	WITN-TV	NBC	49	109.6	119.1	85.39	44.71
25‑1 (25)	WUNK-TV	PBS	34.5	95.9	105.4	60.75	20.9
47‑1 (32)	WRPX-TV	ION	16	13.6	23.1	100.50	59.99
62‑1 (32)	WFPX-TV	IONPlus	16	13.6	23.1	100.50	59.99

34-1 (23) is received on two of three tuners. The WinTV10 does not see this channel. I am assuming there is some technical reason why (with WinTV10 tuner).

Still looking to reliably receive these;

Channel (Virt / Real)	Callsign	Network	Xmitter Miles	Direction (True)	Direction (Magnetic)	Strength	Signal Margin (db)
14‑1 (19)	WYDO	FOX	60.3	124.8	134.3	58.77	19.52
12‑1 (12)	WCTI-TV	ABC	60.3	124.8	134.3	49.23	13.23
9‑1 (10) (>12)	WNCT-TV	CBS	48.9	109.6	119.1	61.85	25.85

I can get a signal from WNCT occasionally, but not consistently with current fixed setup. Before, I would slightly tweak the antenna when I knew I "needed" the down east channels. The tuners pickup 14-1, but unable to get a lock on the signal (~50 or less)

Also picking up 54.1 and 40.1. Both are Hispanic and I don't include those in the spreadsheet.

Updated my spreadsheet to reflect your new info per WNCT & WTVD. Thanks.

Thinking out loud..............
...........that begs the question if ch12 is going back to UHF xmit channel 48, since ch9 is going to 12? They are in the same direction, so ch12 must be moving back to 48 or another xmit channel. I hope 48. I could pick their signal up easier there.

Thanks again for both of your insights.

Mokanic

Feb 10, 2020

Trip

Just saw WCTI going to xmit ch10 from xmit ch12 in the "linked station" section of rabbitears.info
Answers my outloud thinking from previous post.
Thanks.

Thinking out loud EDIT: Which begs the question why are those two stations just doing a xmit channel swap???????....... Both are Hi-VHF.....in the same market........two different owners............must be one channel interfering with some other nearby station violating the 120 degree FCC rule.....or something.......

Looking at other information.............overload....calling it a night................

Trip

Feb 10, 2020

Yes, WCTI is going to 10. The repack moved WWBT in Richmond from 12 to 10, and to maintain the pre-existing interference relationship, the system swapped WNCT and WCTI accordingly.

Looking at your RabbitEars report, I think you would be best served waiting. WYDO is a lost cause; don't bother with it. Once WUNC moves their channel 30 translator in Garner to channel 19, WYDO will be unusable to you. That just leaves WNCT and WCTI, both of which are adjacent to WTVD and are probably impacted by it. Most receivers can handle signal strength differences of about 33 dB or less on adjacent channels. WTVD is about 40 dB stronger than WNCT and 55 dB stronger than WCTI. WNCT is likely to improve with the repack since it will no longer be adjacent to WTVD, but WCTI will retain its adjacency.

EDIT: I wanted to note that WUVC may be Spanish on 40-1 and 40-2, but has English-language subchannels on 40-3 through 40-6 that may be worth watching. WRTD-CD 54-1 is channel sharing on WRAZ, so if you receive WRAZ, you receive both.

- Trip

Mokanic

Feb 10, 2020

Trip said:
Yes, WCTI is going to 10. The repack moved WWBT in Richmond from 12 to 10, and to maintain the pre-existing interference relationship, the system swapped WNCT and WCTI accordingly.

Looking at your RabbitEars report, I think you would be best served waiting. WYDO is a lost cause; don't bother with it. Once WUNC moves their channel 30 translator in Garner to channel 19, WYDO will be unusable to you. That just leaves WNCT and WCTI, both of which are adjacent to WTVD and are probably impacted by it. Most receivers can handle signal strength differences of about 33 dB or less on adjacent channels. WTVD is about 40 dB stronger than WNCT and 55 dB stronger than WCTI. WNCT is likely to improve with the repack since it will no longer be adjacent to WTVD, but WCTI will retain its adjacency.

EDIT: I wanted to note that WUVC may be Spanish on 40-1 and 40-2, but has English-language subchannels on 40-3 through 40-6 that may be worth watching. WRTD-CD 54-1 is channel sharing on WRAZ, so if you receive WRAZ, you receive both.

- Trip

Thanks. I believe I will stand pat at this time and wait as you suggested.

RE: 40-1; while I was perusing the site, I found the NICE subchannel page for all the markets and saw that information and have now updated and injected that data into my local spreadsheet. Thanks.

I also noticed on the page where you give channel tech information (forget the exact nomenclature used, it was the info you had posted about not capturing anymore in a post somewhere in here) why I have always liked WCTI's smooth picture. It is being broadcast at almost 60fps. Good info. Still working out the total limit per channel/freq. I will need to do a search to see if the freq. limit has been mentioned and understand more about that.

I found the library and am trying to "edumacate" myself. :hatsoff2

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

15 minutes ago · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Security Now 1101

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ4Z4zafNLI

Direct YouTube Link - Security Now 1101
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply 16 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of ‘Kate & Allie’ and ‘McMillan & Wife,’ Dies at 80

Susan Saint James, the Emmy-winning actress who starred in "Kate & Allie," died Monday after being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. She was 80.

variety.com

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Bobby

16 minutes ago

Rest in peace.

JSheridan

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 19 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

All DMA's now Western Arc

I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.

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Reactions: That American Girl, MikeD-C05, AkaDoubleG and 6 others

Strega

Friday at 10:01 PM

Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

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Jimbo

Friday at 11:17 PM

Strega said:
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Mister B

Saturday at 7:35 AM

Jimbo said:
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

Reactions: Almighty1, savarese04 and charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 10:40 AM

Mister B said:
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

can't forget the little blue m&m's

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charlesrshell

Yesterday at 11:23 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
can't forget the little blue m&m's

That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

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telstar_1

Yesterday at 8:12 PM

Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 9:01 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

Because he didn't have a fleet of reusable rockets. Starlink works because SpaceX is able to launch hundreds (thousands?) of their Starlink satellites for what a single geostationary Internet satellite costs to build and launch on a disposable launcher.

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telstar_1

Today at 12:08 AM

But how is it reusable if it's disposable

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slow_poke_pete

Today at 2:09 AM

charlesrshell said:
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh

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Almighty1

Today at 4:04 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

He does not have the resources aka $$$ compared to Elon Musk as in reality, Elon can eat Charlie for lunch or even mop the floor with Charlie if he wanted to.

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

19 minutes ago

ment to 20 yrs dam phone

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Marques Brownlee

35 minutes ago · posted in Marques Brownlee

This can SEE Sound!

Time for another AWESOME video from Marques Brownlee!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ai1gIWacf0I

Direct YouTube Link - This can SEE Sound!
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The MKBHD Store

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Today at 4:12 PM · posted in iJustine

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Direct YouTube Link - New Dive Computer! Oceanic's o.i

The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 4:09 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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FTA4PA

Today at 12:09 PM

Strange Days - Nazareth

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Today at 1:17 PM

Dancing Days - Led Zeppelin

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dishstaller

Today at 2:34 PM

Dancing in the Street - Van Halen

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Today at 3:47 PM

Bakers Street - Gerry Rafferty

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Bobby

Today at 4:09 PM

long_time_Dish said:
Bakers Street - Gerry Rafferty

Let me fix that for you:
Baker Street - Gerry Rafferty

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osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 4:03 PM · posted in Movie Talk

Dune (2020)

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long_time_Dish

Jun 4, 2024

Also watched part 2 about a week or so ago after rewatching part 1. It's not as faithful to the book as I was hoping for. Part 1 stayed fairly faithful to the novel, but part 2 took some liberties that I felt were rather excessively non-novel. It looks like a prequel series will happen before part 3. My issue is: there's no prequel that was written as a novel, so what will it be pulled from? Or will it just be "based loosely" on the novel?

klang

Jun 4, 2024

long_time_DNC said:
Also watched part 2 about a week or so ago after rewatching part 1. It's not as faithful to the book as I was hoping for. Part 1 stayed fairly faithful to the novel, but part 2 took some liberties that I felt were rather excessively non-novel. It looks like a prequel series will happen before part 3. My issue is: there's no prequel that was written as a novel, so what will it be pulled from? Or will it just be "based loosely" on the novel?

There is a bunch of other Dune written by Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert (Franks son). I think the series in production is taken from one of their books about the Bene Gesserit.

long_time_Dish

Jun 4, 2024

klang said:
There is a bunch of other Dune written by Kevin J Anderson and Brian Herbert (Franks son). I think the series in production is taken from one of their books about the Bene Gesserit.

Correct. I've read all of them (yes, it took awhile, better part of a year, in my spare time). And they can't really consider or classify a series about the Bene Gesserit as a prequel. Sure, I suppose they can call it that, if they want to, because it begins before the time of Paul Atredies, but it's still a stretch. It's a Dune-related novel, not a prequel as we generally think of prequels...

klang

Mar 17, 2026

View: https://youtu.be/3_9vCamtuPY

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klang

Today at 3:41 PM

Big finish coming:

View: https://youtu.be/uJqaGLmZpGo?si=WBhK28F4HiSVI-qx

long_time_Dish

Today at 4:03 PM

Well, it looks good! I just hope they stayed close to the trilogy, but it doesn't look like it.

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 2:32 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

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Direct YouTube Link - MacBreak Weekly 1048
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Linus Tech Tips

Today at 2:12 PM · posted in Linus Tech Tips

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RabbitEars.Info

Security Now 1101

Susan Saint James, Emmy-Winning Star of 'Kate & Allie' and 'McMillan & Wife,' Dies at 80

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