A $1299 1080p projector: Epson 8350

[Ilya]

My main TV set, Sony GrandWega is on its last legs. (The picture is jumping for 2-3 minutes while the TV set is warming up and I am afraid it will soon stop working completely). So, I decided it’s time to start looking for a new TV set for Christmas. I’ve been thinking of a projector for quite some time now, but I am still not ready to invest several thousand dollars in a really good one, and I don’t think now is the right time for such investment anyway, with the 3D technology just shaping up. So, I decided to get an entry-level projector that would satisfy my lust for a couple of years while the 3D technology matures (or dies out).

So, I started looking at what’s available out there in the 1080p category, say, under $1,500. First, I was thinking about Panny AE4000. At $1999 that was a great choice a year ago. And I was hoping Panasonic would release a newer model this year, or at least drop the price on this one. They haven’t…

Then, I came across this new model from Epson: PowerLite Home Cinema 8350. It’s been announced less than a month ago at CEDIA, but it’s already available on-line and in local A/V stores. At just $1,299 this is a real marvel!

Here are some specs:

• Resolution: 1080p
• Brightness: 2000 lumens
• Contrast ratio: 50,000:1
• Lamp life: 4,000 hrs
• Warranty: 2 yrs (replacement, next-business-day shipping)

Not only this year’s model is cheaper than the last year’s 8100, but what is especially exciting is that it now uses Epson’s inorganic C2Fine D7 LCD panels, which were previously available only in much higher priced UB models.

Rave reviews from Projector Central and ProjetorReviews.com:

Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350 Review
Epson Home Cinema 8350 Home Theater Projector Review - Overview

Well guys, I think I know what I am getting for Christmas this year!

 

[tigerfan33]

I had the 8100 (last years 8350 and from what I've read not much of a change from the 8100). Sold it and got the 8500. Difference was really big. Better contrast and on my High Power screen a bigger viewing cone. Colors have more depth on the 8500. I say spend a few more extra dollars ($1700) and get the 8500. Also read yesterday that Epson will guaranty the bulb for the life of the two year warranty on any 1080p projector sold.

Either one you will be happy with.

 

[diogen]

Epson has come a long way in this projector business...
They used to be strictly business oriented: lots of lumens but color and contrast were crappy.

Much better now (I haven't seen this particular model in action).

Diogen.

 

[tigerfan33]

Here is a write up by Evan Powell from Projector Central about bulbs from Epson.


Epson's Remarkable Lamp Guarantee
Evan Powell - Oct 20, 2010
At the bottom of our review on the Epson Home Cinema 8100 there are an unusual number of user comments expressing frustration with premature lamp failure. This is unusual for two reasons...

First, Epson has quite a few 1080p models out using the exact same lamp and cooling system, but only Home Cinema 8100 users appear to be reporting a problem. Second, the Epson dealers I´ve been in contact with say there are no unusually high order rates for replacement lamps on the 8100. As far as Epson dealers are concerned, there is no problem that they are aware of.

What is happening here? My suspicion is that two factors are at work. The 8100 is the lowest priced 1080p model on the market that has a 2x zoom lens and lens shift. The low price makes it a popular model that sells in high volume, and the 2x zoom lens with lens shift means that it is frequently installed in bookcases. (People buying inexpensive 1080p projectors typically do not want the cost and bother of ceiling mounting.)

Accordingly, I suspect some small percentage of 8100 users are installing it in bookcases with restricted heat dissipation, thereby causing internal operating temperatures to rise. Projectors need not only unimpeded airflow from intake and exhaust vents, but sufficient clearance around the case to radiate heat. If you allow your projector to run hotter than normal, you will cook the lamp, plain and simple. This is true of all projectors with high pressure lamps.

Since there are many thousands of 8100 users, it would not be surprising to discover that a small percentage of those users are installing their projectors in less than desirable conditions as far as cooling and heat dissipation are concerned. And complaints posted on a website such as ours, from a small fraction of a very large user base, are enough to create the impression of a problem with the product.

I have spoken to Epson about this situation. They have looked into it and, like the dealers I talked to, they say they have not discovered any aberrant issues. Nevertheless, Epson wants to ensure customers that it stands behind its products. Therefore, Epson´s spokesperson has informed me that if you experience any problem with premature lamp failure on any Epson 1080p projector, you may return the lamp for a replacement lamp anytime during the life of the product´s warranty. Yes, you read that right-premature lamp failure on any Epson 1080p projector will be covered for the entire duration of the projector´s warranty, not the lamp´s warranty.

If you encounter an early lamp failure on any Epson 1080p model, Epson asks that you contact them directly at 800-637-7661 (use your PIN on PrivateLine Support Card).

In my view, this is a remarkably aggressive response on Epson´s part. To my knowledge, no other vendor offers this type of support when it comes to lamp performance. Hopefully it will put any concerns to rest on the part of those thinking of buying Epson 1080p home theater models.

Evan Powell
Editor

 

[jayn_j]

I bought the 8100 back in June. I have looked at the 8500 and think that the lower priced projector is just fine, especially considering the near $1k price difference.

I can't say enough good stuff about Epson support. My unit had an issue with the firmware locking up when signal was lost or source resolution changed. I explained the problem to Epson and in less than 5 minutes, the first person I talked to authorized a replacement unit. This was on a Saturday afternoon, and the replacement was on my doorstep Monday at Noon. It was a brand new unit, not a refurb.

Over on AVS, people are talking about free bulb replacements for units that are 6 months old with 1000 hours on them.

I wish I could upgrade, actually. The 8350 has newer LCD panels that are inorganic, as opposed to my organic ones. It is supposed to have a better contrast ratio as well. And it is already selling for $200 less than I paid four months ago.

The lens shift capability was what sold me, and it really has made projector placement easy and flexible.

If I could change something, it would really be nice to have power zoom, so I could use a 2.35:1 screen. As it is, I am recommending using a 16:9 screen for anyone getting this series. The zoom is manual as is the lens shift, and one affects the other. Thus if you want to change zoom, you end up fiddling with it.

I projected against a white wall for a couple of months, and eventually bought an Elite SableFrame 120" fixed screen. I was happy projecting on the wall, but MUCH happier with a real screen. BTW, the Elite SableFrame is nearly identical to the EZFrame series, but $100 cheaper. The differences are in the frame shape and number of mounting points. They use identical screen material. Of course, that only matters if you are using a fixed screen. The sableFrame only comes in white screen material though, so if you are using it with ambient light, it kind of becomes a non-starter as you will really want a gray screen.

 

[Ilya]

And for those considering higher priced models from Epson, here is the new 2010 lineup (I got this table from a local dealer):

[FONT="Courier New"]

Model:                           [B]Home Cinema   Pro Cinema   Home Cinema   Pro Cinema
                                    8350          9350        8700 UB      9700 UB [/B]

Price:                             $1299         $2299         $2199        $3099

Technology/Panel:                                     D7 (C2Fine)

Light Output:                     2000 lm       2000 lm       2000 lm      2000 lm

Contrast ratio:                   50,000:1      50,000:1        200,000:1 dynamic
                                                                  6,000:1 native

Lamp Life:                        4,000 hrs     4,000 hrs    4,000 hrs    4,000 hrs

Processor:                         PW390         PW390          PW390, HQV Reon-VX

Real color reproduction:            Yes           Yes          Yes          Yes

Super-resolution Chip/Tech:         No            No           Yes          Yes

Dual-layer auto iris:               No            No           Yes          Yes

ISF function:                       No            Yes          No           Yes

Color isolation:                    No            Yes          No           Yes

FineFrame Technology:               No            No           Yes          Yes

Anamorphic scaling modes:           No            No        Yes- with    Two modes -
                                                           movable lens   fixed and
                                                                         movable lens

Preset color space selection:       No            No           Yes          Yes

THX Certification (pending):        No            No           Yes          Yes

Warranty:                          2 yrs         3 yrs        2 yrs        3 yrs

Bundled accessories:               None        Lamp/mount     None       Lamp/mount
                                               cable cover               cable cover[/FONT]

 

[jayn_j]

Note that the 9350 is identical to the 8350. For the extra $1k you get a spare bulb, a mount and an extra year of warranty. It is aimed at custom installers and isn't generally available retail.

Kind of the same thing with the 9700, except it has better anamorphic lens support.

 

[Ilya]

Note that the 9350 is identical to the 8350. For the extra $1k you get a spare bulb, a mount and an extra year of warranty. It is aimed at custom installers and isn't generally available retail.

And it's black rather than white. (Though for me, that's not a big deal. My ceiling is white and my wife wouldn't allow me to repaint it. So, the white 8350 will even look better hanging from the ceiling.)

Another difference mentioned is: ISF function and Color isolation. I don't know how important that is: as I understand, even the 8350 has very detailed calibration options (things like color temperature, gamma, etc.)

My local dealer is trying to convince me to go with the 9350, but I can't seem to justify the extra $1000, especially if Epson keeps the promise of the extended bulb warranty as mentioned by tigerfan33 above.

And since I might be replacing the projector within a couple of years anyway, the extra bulb and the extra year on the warranty don't do me any good.

 

[jayn_j]

My local dealer is trying to convince me to go with the 9350, but I can't seem to justify the extra $1000, especially if Epson keeps the promise of the extended bulb warranty as mentioned by tigerfan33 above.

The info on the extended warranty comes from the projectorpeople website. I couldn't find anything on the Epson site, and the press release and online info both say 90 day bulb warranty. However, the reality has been that Epson is very co-operative in actually replacing bulbs. The same site is quoting Epson as saying that the bulb life data for the 8100 is pretty much the same as the 1080 and 6100. The bulb and chassis is also the same. Only difference is more people reporting failures on websites. Don't know if that is true or not, and my unit still has less than 100 hours.

I have no idea what ISF function is. 8700 has a THX mode. They all have x.v.color. Even the 8100 has full gamma control of individual colors, and each preset/input stores settings. This gives a lot of options for setting and storing custom settings.

 

[tigerfan33]

Yea J I was going to mention the THX mode on the 8500. I use it all of the time.(movies and sports). Seems pretty accurate out of the box in this mode. I have had two sets calibrated and was thinking of getting my Epson calibrated but not sure how often it would need calibrating with the bulb aging on a fp.

 

[tigerfan33]

From a poster at AVS that called Epson about the bulb warranty article:

I called Epson tech support (here in the US) today.

They confirmed that the article that Projector Central posted is in fact true.

During the projector's warranty period, if the lamp fails, call Epson, and they will replace the lamp.

To get a replacement lamp, you will be asked to send the lamp to them. They will send you a pre-paid shipping label so that you won't have to pay for the shipping.

This new lamp policy is in effect for ANY Epson 1080p projector that is still under warranty. I asked if this would include the new 8350, and the three upcoming 1080p 3LCD Reflective models, and he said yes.

The lamp went out in my 8500UB in June of this year. While I didn't have the old lamp to send to Epson (he asked for it), he (Milton) was able to confirm that I had in fact purchased a replacement lamp from the Epson store, on June 28th of this year.

So, he's sending me a new lamp. I'll get it next week.

 

[Ilya]

Well, guess what? I just bought one at a local HHGregg for $965.99 plus tax!
Didn't plan to buy so soon, but it was impossible to pass on such a great deal!!!

HHGregg has 8350's on sale for $1039.99 (through tomorrow only) and I also got an extra $75 off coupon (valid for any TV set purchase above 700) by signing up for their mailing list. (Thanks to the tip posted by someone at AVS Forum!)

 

[tigerfan33]

Congrats!!

I got my 8100 at hhgregg's also. They are easier to dicker with than Best Buy IMO. Let us know your thoughts once you have it setup.

 

[Ilya]

I am afraid it's going to take awhile.
Probably a couple of weekends. I haven't even figured out how to run the cables to the ceiling...

 

[jayn_j]

I am afraid it's going to take awhile.
Probably a couple of weekends. I haven't even figured out how to run the cables to the ceiling...

I didn't let that stop me. Just dragged a tall bookcase over and put it on that while I was waiting to figure out the ceiling mount.

But the AVS room construction forum wisdom is that if you allow images to appear, you will never get the room done

 

[Ilya]

Well, of course I couldn't wait too long, so I just left it on top of the box that it came in, pulled out a portable screen (60" or so) and ran a component cable to my Denon (couldn't find HDMI cable that would be long enough). Not the best setup, but it is interesting to watch it side-by-side with my Sony RPTV.

Some first observations:

1. This thing is really bright! (especially on this small screen) Even with the reading lamp at full power (150 W) I can comfortably watch TV! That takes care of my biggest concern.

2. Out of the box colors look surprisingly good to me.

3. Blacks are not as deep as I would like them to be, however I am impressed with the level of detail that I can see on dark images. Something that I have been missing on my aging RPTV.

4. The zoom range and the lens shift (both vertical and horizontal) are very good. This should simplify the installation of this projector in many different scenarios.

5. A rather cheap-looking remote. But who cares! Most of us won't be using it anyway.

So far I like what I see! I just can't believe that this projector costs a small fraction of what I paid for my Sony RPTV back then...

 

[jayn_j]

Black levels are a lot about the screen and light control. Be sure to do your homework there.

(Ilya, this is more for others. I know you know this)
A good experiment is to turn everything off and go sit in your theater in the light conditions you use. Look at the screen or screen wall. That gray you see is the blackest black you will have on your projected image. If you want deeper blacks, you will need to make that space blacker, either by removing light from the room, getting a higher gain screen, or 'magic'. There is no magic.

Then turn on the projector, but don't show an image. Make sure the setting for video mute is in the black position instead of blue. Look at that same screen/wall. The difference between the two images is the inherent black level of the projector. Many people complain about the blacks, but don't take the room into consideration. The difference here is what gets improved if you throw money at the projector, and frankly it isn't a lot until you start spending real money on the system.

There are a lot of things you can do to the room to make it a better theater. The first is a real screen with velvet borders. You wouldn't think that a 3" strip of velvet would make much of a difference, but it transforms the image bu providing a sharp edge and a high contrast frame. The second thing is to consider painting the wall around the screen a darker color. It's all about the contrast. Consider the ceiling at the same time. The ceiling makes a bigger difference than the walls. Some of the extreme guys are discussing what is the darkest, flattest black for their ceilings. I don't think you need to go that far, but ceilings don't need to be white. They are black in real theaters. Also, the first 5' is the important part. If you can darken that much, either through paint or curtains, you will be amazed. Turn on the projector and look at the ceiling. See how much light is being reflected back at you. Not only that, the same sort of light is being reflected back on to the screen. Darkening that space will eliminate those reflections both ways and make a really big difference.

I'm not so fussy about black levels and am willing to let the big image absorb me. Thus I went with a fairly inexpensive Elite fixed 120" screen. It was a big improvement over projecting onto a white wall, but blacks are not what I hoped. I am intrigued by the Black Diamond discussions, but it seems silly to spend $2k for a screen to show an image from a $1k projector. The DIY screen forums have some real promise. MississippiMan is a master of paint mixes, and he seems to have a different one for all occasions. I will eventually experiment with one of his mixes, either on a piece of laminate or right on a wall. Probably the laminate, as I have caught the fever and am looking at acoustic treatments behind the screen now. I probably should also look at the fabric overlays that Dfergie has been experimenting with. A dark gray spandex over my existing screen might just be the ticket.

I love the theaters these guys build, but I am never going to get to that level. I do want something that is identifiable as a theater and something that looks nice. I think it may be important for me to have this as a project/hobby where I can experiment, change and create.

 

[jayn_j]

2. Out of the box colors look surprisingly good to me.

5. A rather cheap-looking remote. But who cares! Most of us won't be using it anyway.

2. Be sure to experiment with the different modes. Theater Black1 works best for me without doing a calibration. Not ready to calibrate yet as I keep changing things. Also, consider going to eco mode on the bulb, as it will make a difference on life. I have also played with the auto iris. This will help blacks on dark scenes, but it is the noisiest part of the projector and I worry about reliability of this mechanical part. I compromised, and leave it in slow mode.

5. Don't throw the remote in the drawer just yet. At least it is backlit. When I finally get my Harmony set up again, I will make sure that the menu functions are available. I keep tweaking stuff based on the movie, and would be doing it a lot more if my room wasn't light controlled.

 

[Ilya]

3. Blacks are not as deep as I would like them to be, however I am impressed with the level of detail that I can see on dark images. Something that I have been missing on my aging RPTV.

Just to clarify, my comment about blacks not being too deep wasn't so much about this particular projector (it has gorgeous blacks, very naturally looking with high level of detail) but it was more about front projectors in general, which are so unforgiving to ambient light. This becomes especially obvious when looking at an RPTV side-by-side as I am doing it right now. To my eye, the 8350 noticeably beats my Grand Wega in almost every respect: brightness, contrast, naturally looking colors, etc. (and I haven't even started doing any tweaking yet)... except for blacks. Blacks are blacker on the RPTV, even though they are not so well defined.

As jayn_j mentioned above, how the white screen surface looks in the room, that's what the darkest black level will ever be. Even at night with all lights turned off, light coming from the screen is reflected back by the walls an ceiling. (Fortunately my walls have a darker neutral tint, but there is no way in the world my wife would let me paint the ceiling in black )

Some ambient light in the room actually improves the blacks for my RPTV, but it kills them for a front projector. Though higher contrast helps to some extent by tricking us into perceiving blacks as being darker than they really are.

For me, this is not a big deal. Just something that will require some getting used to.

 

[Ilya]

Overscan adjustment in the settings menu! Sweet!!!